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Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

Posted July 27, 2010 10:04 AM by Old_School

There are several ways to transmit engine power to the rear wheel of a motorcycle. A continuously variable transmission (CVT) is the simplest because it doesn't necessarily require frame modification. Alternatively, you can place a modified motorcycle transmission behind the engine. But I didn't have the money to spend on either approach, nor did I have the skills to safely stretch the frame to accommodate the extra parts. Therefore, since I didn't intend to make the bike street legal, I decided to set it up like an old minibike: with a single-speed centrifugal clutch.

Editor's Note: Click here for Part 1 of this multi-part series

Single-Speed Transmission Using a single-speed transmission has some serious drawbacks. The most significant is the bike's inability both to go fast AND go up hills unless there is a lot of power behind it. With access to only 6 hp, I had to choose my gearing carefully. Luckily, my workshop (a.k.a. my parents' garage) is located on Long Island, possibly the flattest area in the U.S. this side of the Great Plains. I chose a gear ratio of approximately 6.85:1, which would give me a top speed of 40 mph on flat land but a measly 68 foot-pounds of torque at the wheel.

Rear Sprocket Size

One problem I hadn't considered when designing the bike was the sheer size of the rear sprocket. Using a 1600 Series centrifugal clutch from NORAM with 14 teeth, I had to order a 96-tooth rear sprocket. It was very nearly bigger than the rim of the wheel and almost hit the swing-arm. After mounting the engine, aligning the sprockets, and installing the chain, I fired up the engine and took it for a test ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Cff0kgbls

After these initial test runs on pump diesel, I purchased a gallon of Wesson Canola Oil and, to my amazement, the engine ran perfectly! Starting the engine from cold was a problem, however, so I mixed in about 10% diesel fuel to ease the stress on my arm.

What I'd Do Differently

In the future, the most important improvement I'd make is to include some form of transmission. Even though the clutch was the simplest option, it severely limited both acceleration and hill-climbing. In addition, because there is so little starting torque, the clutch has a habit of overheating rather quickly during prolonged use.

Despite these drawbacks, this is one seriously fun piece of machinery, and I would recommend it as an enjoyable engineering project to anyone with the time and ability.

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#1

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/27/2010 10:32 AM

I am not too familiar with the bike, but couldn't you have mated your engine to the transmission of the original bike. I know most bikes have a wet clutch, but don't know if there is a way to separate the transmission from the bike and have a shaft you can plug into.

Drew

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 12:09 AM

I think it was a Kz400, which were notorious for leaking oil along the seam where the case bolted together. Unit construction [motor & transmission in the same case] would make using the tranny a more advanced project.

Wow bet the rear sprocket & chain were expensive

another cheap way to go would be a belt drive primary & chain secondary

move the motor forward & down a bit

mount a jackshaft just in front of the swingarm pivot, using the pivot would be the best possible, but once again more advanced. There would be no need to run significant slack in the chain if the jackshaft & the swingarm pivot were tha same shaft

run the belt loose & use a spring loaded idler to engage it as the clutch

another option would be a foot pedal being pushed down to engage, you probably almost can't stall the motor with that much torque

double reduction would let you stick with what ever rear sprocket was stock. I think it would be #50 chain size in industrial sprockets

I would have geared for more like 55 mph as a top speed, the suspension & brakes being rated for probably around 80 as a top speed.

it would be required to carry a spare belt as hard launches would probably let all the smoke out of the belt fairly quickly

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 8:19 AM

I would have loved a jackshaft! That sprocket is ridiculous, but the engine is mounted in pretty much the only spot that didn't require extensive frame modifications. No room for a jackshaft there. Besides, I kind of like the old-fashioned Harley Davidson look it has going here. At least i didn't use a leather belt!

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#2

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/27/2010 12:32 PM

Pretty slick!

Does the clutch slip under load or is it grabbing while idling?

One of the most efficient transmissions I ever had (for two wheels) was on a Salisbury scooter, It was a belt drive CVT with both the drive and driven pulleys modulated by flyweights (instead of one being spring loaded), Another key to the extremely smooth operation was the large diameter of the centrifugal drive clutch, which had more surface area to transmit torque.

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#3

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/27/2010 3:26 PM

Try a comet clutch.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/27/2010 5:23 PM

I think the Comet factory closed and everything is backordered for the next 3 months. Too bad though, they had great products.

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#6

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 2:45 AM

Great, well done and many thanks for the video....

You would not get a street license here though due to the smoky exhaust, you would have to put a "fine particle filter" on to achieve that....

Really old motorbikes of the 50's and 60's had a seperate gearbox from the engine. It was usually chain driven from the engine with a safety cover over the chain....

If you could find one of those, you would be able to fix the problems of not having gears.....

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 8:14 AM

Most of the diesel bikes built in Europe use a Royal Enfield frame and transmission for that reason. Unfortunately, it is hard to come by pre-unit gearboxes in the states that aren't insanely expensive. Harley Davidson units run close to 900 bucks (which would have doubled the cost of the project) and anything British is just rare.

I would like to chop the crankshaft assembly off a two-stroke dirtbike engine for the next project. There are tons of those in junkyards around here :)

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 10:08 AM

Pre unit norton's, BSA's & triumph's are popular for conversions too

Good job, looks clean

oddly enough you could probably get a registration for it here in cali, as long as you have the title for the frame. I've seen a few KX or CR 500's fitted with four stroke motors in order to have street legal dirtbikes. the title from the street bike motor donor being used

I wonder if there would be direction of rotation problems using a dirtbike tranny? the primary being gear drive, not chain. those old Brit bikes being right drive for the final to avoid the use of left handed threads?

I wouldn't be too concerned about modifying the bottom loop of the frame, shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't mess with the back bone down to the swingarm pivot

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#8

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 8:18 AM

I have been considering something like that myself. This is a paper I found to be interesting.

[PDF]

ACTUATED CONTINUOUSLY VARIABLE TRANSMISSION FOR SMALL VEHICLES A ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by JH Gibbs - 2009

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#10

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 8:33 AM

http://www.hdtusa.com/vehicle-m1030-m2.php

Ideas maybe. Deutz makes a nice little diesel engine.

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#11

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 8:42 AM

Excellent Project! It is so much fun to just roll up your sleeves and do something like that on a limited budget and without really knowing how to do it when you start! Kudos for taking some time out of your life to realize a long-thought plan and see it through.

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#12

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 9:14 AM

Old School,

A couple more questions. Is the engine counter balanced? Is it electric start? ( I ask, because it has a pull start but the battery is pretty big).

Your project has a lot of positive going for it. What a great platform to work with!

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/30/2010 12:05 AM

I just stuck the battery on there to power the lights. Its pull start only (kind of a pain when the engine doesn't want to catch)

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/30/2010 11:53 AM

Does it have a generator?

"Start Pilot" or similar helps diesels start...spray into the air intake.

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#14

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/28/2010 2:39 PM

That is a fun looking project. Great way to experiment with different fuels and economy.

As you mentioned, a next phase might be to add some type of multiple ratio transmission. With one ratio, 6 HP and a top speed of 40 MPH I am sure the acceleration is lazy. A series 30 or 40 Comet torque converter should handle things and they are in the $200 to $300 range. You would have to move the engine forward or lengthen things and a jack-shaft may be needed for the second pulley.

Here is another idea. A "pre-unit" type motorcycle transmission would be neat as mentioned but it may not be that hard to build your own. Take the old 400 Kawasaki transmission cut the engine off. Use the centrifugal clutch to drive the transmission input shaft. This is the shaft where the motorcycle clutch is now, just adapt a correct size sprocket to the shaft. Seal the transmission as needed. Some aluminum welding and shaft seal work will be needed. This is dependent on the specifics of the transmission. Mount the transmission in the bike in its original location. The transmission input shaft is on the right side and the diesel engine clutch is on the left. Just turn the engine around. This will make the output shaft rotate the opposite direction in relation to the rear wheel but the gearset in the transmission switches it again so I think it works out. You would need to double check this.

Garthh had mentioned using a British pre unit transmission. This is a good idea. The less collectible bikes transmissions are not expensive to buy used. I looked around ebay and craigslist and believe you could buy a usable one for $100.

One other thought. If your current clutch is overheating maybe you can add weight to the shoe/weight assembly. This may make it "lock up" at a lower RPM and slip less. That is if the motor can tolerate this.

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#17

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

07/31/2010 11:43 PM

Just for theory I would think that using the diesel to drive a two stage log splitter pump that in turn ran a hydraulic motor for the final drive could give you a simple semi automatic transmission.

You would use the old clutch lever to control a flow bypass or variable rate valve as the initial clutch but use the automatic two stage function of the pump as a sort of automatic high low transmission.

Just a theory of course.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

08/02/2010 9:26 AM

The splitter pump would be too erratic as it kicked down to the low flow/high pressure side, probably would have some cavitation problems. Would need some kind of anti-cav. check between the ports on the drive motor, so when the wheel speed was greater than the amount of oil coming out of the pump it could replenish through the outlet of the motor back into the motor. Like a over running clutch. i think closed loop would be better. Check out the link below.

http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/E-TRLD-TM001-E.pdf

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Designing a Diesel Motorcycle

08/02/2010 10:14 AM

That looks like fun I wonder how much it weighs?

run the diesel full blast & hook the twist grip to the speed control?

it would probably be a model 6-7 would work, but is a little on the small side for full power, I would guess it's somewhat underrated.

a 90° version would allow for the use of a lovejoy [or other] coupling

at 8" x 6" the straight through version is gonna take some creative mounting

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