Are You Stealing From the Workplace?

It comes under several names.
If you are a wealthy top end executive it's a bonus or a perk.
For the working man it's labelled pilfering.
For most people it's part of the give and take...companies often have resources or access to material that the average person can't get conveniently.
As an example I recently needed a roll pin for my son's wheel chair. I couldn't buy one singly but if I worked in certain fields one would have been available in stores for me to take/use/steal/liberate. (You'd think the wheelchair company would pop one in the post wouldn't you?)
I generally ask if I'm taking stuff from work, but it's often scrap material anyway.
To balance this I use my own tools skills and resources for the benefit of the company. I've made wooden jigs for company use in my own time on several occaisions.
YES I expect it is fair to the employer in most cases if the stuff is for personal use and is balanced with some give elsewhere like the unpaid overtime that many of us do.
(I often leave early to make up for arriving late)
Del

Regards.

No employer awards Victoria Cross to employees performing "Beyond the Duty" jobs.

Only Top brass licks benefits.

And the distributers like EBay & else charge Packing & Post ...

We laugh at animals in their presumptuous marking of territories without recognizing that we are the same and that the only true form of ownership is physical possession. Stealing is only an arbitrary label for activity that "owners" use to dissuade others from taking that which, for one reason or another, they cannot physically control. As a business owner, I have learned to trust human instinct above social constructs.

One of the most common things being stolen from employers is time. With all of the communications devices available, a lot of time is taken by employees using their personal devices or spending personal time on the company computer. It doesn't seem like much but when you add up all the time spent on non company business it puts a real dent in productive hours.

Well for me, I bring my own pencils (mechanical), (don't use pens), my own note pads, my own laptop, my own printer, paper, ink, tools, file cabinet. This is a start up company and is 100% invester operated at the moment. In 3 years, paydirt! Then I will take all my own stuff home and pilfer back all that I have invested in this company. Also all of the schematics, control cabinet designs are mine. So are they renting them? Leasing them? Or is this what I was hired to do and they own all proprietary of what I design and fabricate? Is it mine?

Not that I want to be a hard ass. But, I was hired as an electrician. Then given the tasks to design all their control systems and everything else for this plant from the electrical infrustructure and for 8 more plants around the country.

I would like to ask all my CR4 members for your opinions on this matter. Just so I am not being a hard ass and/or keep me in line with myself.

One more thing to consider, my salary is back to the late 70's. But , you also have to consider this is a start up company, and they are in the right field to really cash in.

I'm afraid that you probably don't have proprietary rights to the things you designed during the time you were working for the company. If you had done the work on your own time and at your own place then you might claim rights but since you took on the task to design and were paid for the time at their place you don't own the rights. Are you legally one of the investors as well? That could change the picture. In the end the owners could claim that you were only doing the work that they expected you to do.

If you have not a degree in engineering, then you most likely will be doing engineering for the engineers, who are real busy... working in continuous improvement (rather than making the damn thing perfect, once and for all).

You have a gross misconception about engineering if you think it has anything to do with perfecting anything. It is about providing a good (not perfect or even optimal)solution to a problem in a quick (and hence cost effective) time frame.

Stealing is a psycho sickness sickness and perhaps an inherent behaviour of the person and requires correction by making one to understand the problem and to restrain by will power. Sometime one is not able to realize that lifting material from work place or from friend's place is not a serious crime and no one may know or mind it a big problem. However, it is a a problem for sure.

One of my assistant always placed ICs and electronics parts in his pocket and often was taking home for experimenting. He later on was employed by an engineering institute where he used to steal computer mouse, memory cards and in spare time used to play movies on computers in some corner rather than working for employer. He lost that job also. His friends working in industries often steal relays and other parts whatever they can carry easily in their pocket.

My second assistant is somewhat less of a brain but better in his ethical values. He can be trusted but requires lots of back up get things done. I also made him understand that stealing kills good relationship. He can rather ask to get much more than he can even steal from work place. He prefers to ask more salary each time and I often accept that at every six month. I did not find any great improvement in work with increased salary. Decreasing salary sure will make it worst.

Labor management is not all that easy and many of you will find it hard if you employ others.

I would say that in electronics components are so cheap (generally) it makes sense to allow employees to take components home for their own experimental use as it improves their education, understanding and expertise in electronics.
I am from that generation where most electronics designers started as hobyists.
Given the choice I would employ a guy who dabbled in electronics at home rather than someone who just saw it as a job.
Home jobs and experimentation in electroncs are the norm as far as I'm concerned and should be encouraged. The way to stop it being "stealing" is to simply allow it, or ask that a record of components used be kept which can then be settled periodically at cost.
The reasoning behind this is that it is almost impossible to buy one or two resistors or a single transistor at a sensible cost, but a company which uses them in quantities will pay fractions of a penny (insert the currency of choice here).
I cut my teeth building voltage regulators and amplifiers out of discrete components, I'm sure some of the other guys here did too.
There is a big difference between taking goods for re-sale or to hoard and taking a few low cost components to play with.
Del

Stealing is a habit and it has nothing to do with actual need. Person get triggered by looking at things and steals it giving no actual value to it whether one needs it or not.

I have many critical components that are crucial to my design and if stolen then my business goes to dogs.

If you find hard to get a single component then it so for your employer. It is only that you do not wish to give real value to your employer who has spent extra money to get critical part.

Unless you are a loser, you will not understand the value of losing your precious possessions that may affect your progress badly.

I had 12 pairs of surgical cutters and pliers and few dozens rolls of wire wrap wires imported with difficulty and this person one by one stolen all of them. He has also stolen big and small staplers, lots of stationary, and whatever component he thought are of high value. He thinks he is becoming rich by stealing high value components without ever realising, that these neither can be used by him nor they can be sold in the market as they are only meant for very special research grade circuit I design. What use is Ohmite 1000G Ohms resistors for you and any one in ordinary market? He has stolen almost all of them I procured by paying for custom design. He will simply have them but will never be able to use them or get money from them. In my city there is no single other user for these parts.

Such person finally is rejected by all employers and can not work on his own also.I have training class for engineers and out of 300 of then I find only few who have stealing habit. One engineer stolen my digital diary, 50% components from many stocked items and 1000 Microcontroller PCBs and 500 high voltage amplifier ICs of BURR BROWN. He has also stolen 12 dictionaries in one go which I bought to give one to 12 engineers but he took away all of them. Do you think this person will use any of them ever? Other engineers only asked for extra resistors, LEDs or replacement for spoiled Microcontroller ICs and they all were given all those extras. Few engineers are over active and they use extra parts and that is not a problem. Stealing deliberately is a problem for sure.

Those stealing from work place often are stealing something they really don't ever need these things. Using Pen and paper is not stealing but is only being slightly greedy. Removing items thinking that as high value possessions is a very serious sickness and perhaps 5% to 10% people have this decease. There is something in all of us that tells not to pick someone else's possession. I feel good that 95% who come to my place fall in that lot. For small items of direct use they all are told that they will get free of cost for asking. Surprisingly they never ask beyond they need. All students are allowed to carry home their development as their own possession and it has never been a problem to me.

Some people are stealing in a group like wolves. While some watch for security and other remain busy in stealing. Some people enter the work place only to search the items that can be stolen and then they plan to implement it sometime when they think is the right time to act upon.

Most of the students have high curiosity level of seeing many new things all of a sudden they find in my research and they want to touch things and want to know what they are and how they cam be used, but rarely they think of stealing.

Is there any one who thinks stealing is bad or all of you think, it is great?

As it seems you know who this kleptomaniac is, why have you not had them put in treatment and recovered your goods?

In some cases it was possible to recover stolen items and some cases it was not possible. Now I have restricted the access to material only to trusted few people and there is frequent monitoring of stock.

It is also good to keep store in-charge with least technical knowledge and only capable of reading numbers and counting the items.

I agree with Shyam 100%.

It is so easy to ask. In my younger years, I exchanged components and tools with my employers with their permissions. It was easy since they were small business. It was a win-win situation.

I still do now that I am a manager and basically encourage my employees to do the same.

The other day, one of our technician needed an oscilloscope to repair stuff at home. I lent him one of the old ones until we need it back... He was happy and brought some broken equipment home that he fixed on his own time and brought back to the company.

I am always happy to give him components and have bought some specially for him. It is a good investment for the company. Good people are so nice to work with. Guys like him prevent many heartburns.

Unfortunately, some other people always take and never give back. You will notice that those people are often bitter and un-happy about work. We spend about one third of our adult life at work. We should make it a good experience.

Sometimes, the owners and managers are bad. Don't waste your time there and find a better employer. You only have one life, make it good.

Yes but in your scenario:- What if the boss is an unreasonable guy and the technician borrows' the old scope without asking? (fullly intending to return it)

Do you then label him a 'thief'?
Sometimes there are 2 sides to the equation and I'm just trying to point out it's not always clear cut.
In fact it would be interesting to know where the law stood in the case above if the technician could clearly demonstrate his intent to return the scope. I suspect it wouldn't be classed as theft.
Del

If I go to your driveway and "borrow" your car without asking while you are absent. Does it matter if I intend to return it some day?

You will send the police after me and I will be considered a thief even if I am the most honest person on earth. It will be my burden to prove that I was going to return it and will be forced to compensate you and the society for the trouble.

Even when items are returned, borrowing without permission has the risk of placing you in the thief category. You then loose the trust of friends and employers even after you have proven your good intentions.

If your employer refuses the loan, it is probably because he or the company has suffered from abuses in the past or he steals himself and cannot understand that some people are honest and bring the stuff back. Do without the stuff and he will be the looser at the end.

In a large corporation, such flexibility is difficult to control and I understand why it is not allowed. But it is part of the good and bad things that you get each place you work at. Nothing is perfect. Compromise and follow the company's rules or work somewhere else.

Your reputation is worth more than the use of an oscilloscope over the weekend.

You can also ask if they have budgets for training. They might be able to "rent" one for your self-training at home and provide a budget for components. Sometimes how you present it is more important than the content of the request. Use "corporate" language. You then make a presentation to your co-workers once you are done. This is a positive activity for any technical company.

I think for home electronics one should plan himself or herself to arrange items. Borrowing in some cases where employer accepts and allows some items for some reason is feasible and some cases it is not feasible.

Clearly stationary is meant for free use and never restricted unless it is grossly misused.

There are histories when people stolen Platinum crucible, Radioactive Gold for money making, and perhaps many other items. One radiographer stolen highly Radioactive needle source and finally thru it in the sea way. It costed Government nearly million to recover it. There are people who deliberately spoil machine, cut wires and cause loss on their own knowingly. One Merchant Navy friend always brings home bag full of all types of tools and parts used on the ship. Perhaps ship captain knows about such things and minds only running ship in good condition.

Employee behaviour at work place is very complex. Other than stealing, some also get engaged in harming others by various means like poisoning food and water or causing explosion. Some do less harmful things like April fool jokes. One assistant placed a noise generator that was activated by light. When boss entered the room and switched on light, there was this noise and no noise when lights were switched off. He was going nuts and called light repair technician.

Some time we worked with highly explosive material like RDX of lab experiments. Imagine if someone steals all such items. After all the supervisor is trusted to keep it safe and if he himself take that home then what is expected?

It is not a matter of small or big thing but a matter of trust that exists between employer and employee. Stealing is always bad thing irrespective of what it is. Common use items do not come in stealing so survey on such thing is of very little use.

If I go to your driveway and "borrow" your car without asking while you are absent. Does it matter if I intend to return it some day?
Yes it probably does...
Under law in the UK the most likely offense you would be charged with is 'Taking Without Owner's Consent' colloquially known as 'twocing'.

I feel you are deliberately being obtuse, borrowing an unused old scope or a few resistors isn't depriving anyone else of anything and in fact probably adds value to the organisation by improving the expertise of the employee. If you can't see that then I'm just very glad I don't work for you.

However it appears my view doesn't resonate with anyone else here, so I shall just shrug and move on.
Seasons greeting to you all.
Del

BTW, in answer to 'compromise or work somewhere else' That's exactly what I have done over the years, working for smaller and smaller companies which aren't plagued my beurocrats incapable of using their initiative. In big companies managers are sometimes prevented from being flexible by rigid HR policies. Indeed governments constantly curtail liberties by imposing laws based on the behaviour of a few incompetents.
There is a saying 'rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools'

Now it has been Embedded in society in general [spare some always] to steal:

Whatever is it is theft; how much or how often-- doesn't matter.

from time to cost, from fame to Faith.

It cannot be accepted what ever the reason may be.

All crimes are based on that they have reasons to do. But can those be accepted.

When the company "down sized" my entire department of 70+ people, they gave us a list of items that they had record of loaning to us for home use. I asked about the items that were not included on their records (they changed process a lot) and was told we should not return them since they would not know how to account for them!

So I happily kept the desktop computer, multi-function scanner, and a few other items that they insisted I hang on to! There is a lot of "missing" stuff that gets written off after it's be fully depreciated anyway. The paper and pens etc., were part of the job since we worked away from the main office a majority of the time.

I personally feel that employees and companies work a lot like dating. When you first meet someone, you would probably never dream of asking a favor of them. You would never ask to borrow money, they probably wouldn't send you home with a tupperware full of food from the bbq. You're acquaintances, nothing more. The same thing with a new employee. But after a little while your relationship begins to change. The company personality and your own begin to mesh, much like a burgeoning friendship. Maybe you're out and you forgot your wallet, your date offers to pick up the tab. Or maybe you've been working in the electronics department for a while and you took a few resistors home to fix your stereo. You told your boss just to make sure it was okay and he looked at you like you were crazy for asking for such a little thing. Then as things progress with your date, and you become more serious you develope an understanding. There is more of a give and take, ebb and flow. Same thing with a company, to a lesser degree. You see really the heart of it is perception. How does the other entity perceive you? Do they perceive that you are contributing to them? Or does it appear you're taking advantage of them? If you are taking advantage of your significant other, they probably won't remain so for long. Ditto for your employer. If they feel you're taking advantage of them by constantly taking things and not contributing and failing to show up on time, most likely they will terminate their relationship with you, ie, can your ass. So i think the base of the matter is not so much 'are you stealing' as it is 'are you taking advantage'. However the dynamic relationship between you and your employer has defined 'taking advantage' determines whether or not you are stealing and each and every employer and employee has a different definition of this.

I think every company has an unwritten code of conduct for taking stuff home. At my employer, we can take boxes if they are destined for the recycle bin, but do not take new boxes that are for shipping our stuff out. Small quantities of bubble wrap used to ship stuff in are OK, large quantities or new bubble wrap is off limits. Old timers can do so without asking, but a new employee should ask. As for tools, I prefer to come to the workplace during off hours if doing any home type projects. I can use tools and maybe pilfer a nut, screw, or bolt but nothing major. Best part is no wife or kids here and I have all the tools, workbench, etc. I need. Only stuff destined for scrap is used, but I ask first.

Many of us do work off the clock" and in fact travel and put in more than the required hours most weeks.

Tracking hours and "stuff" is kind of old school.

In my MBA research into the newest companies- like Google, Netflix, and others- I have seen a trend toward policies that realize that the time and talent of their creatives and engineers is so valuable (ie 10X the value of "typical" employees, that they have policies to maximize their time and engagement.

Here is a sample:

"Take from (Company name here) only when it is inefficient to not take, and inconsequential. "Taking" means, for example, printing personal documents at work or making personal calls on work phone: inconsequential and inefficient to avoid"

I know and espouse the "honor code" but the rational self interest of win win for both parties in this policy is worth considering. IF YOU HAVE STRONG ENGAGED PERFORMERS WHO ARE IN FACT OVERPROVIDING THEIR TIME AND TALENT.

Why would you not?

Milo