Informants Everywhere

It doesn't matter if we accept it or not, it's here.

As someone pointed out in a recent blog................the government can do whatever they want. They are hard at work every day insuring that that ability continues to strengthen.

I just posted this on facebook the other day.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

GA kramarat,

The quote is great. The government exists to serve the people, not vice versa.

There is a fine line between a person's right to privacy and the job of law enforcement to find those who are breaking the law. When there is reasonable cause I don't have any problem with the cops using whatever tools are at their disposal to catch wrongdoers. There is a verse that says "if you don't break the law, you don't have to fear the law".

That isn't to say that there are never abuses by those in positions of enforcing the law, there always will be because people by nature, without principled lives, will seek to benefit at the expense of others. Then, peoples rights will be violated.

I guess I would rather error on the side of the cops rather than the side of the people willfully breaking the laws set up to protect the vast majority of society.

downright scary how many times this pops up.

If I want to figure out why my town finances it's police department with revenue from a speedtrap, I don't want the chief to look at my emails. Can he call his Telco buddy at the Chamber of Commerce and get them? Only if he gets a judge to okay it with a warrant.

I agree PFR.

Here's another quote:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

As law abiding citizens progressively loose our freedom and rights, we, (as a society), have simultaneously made our prisons into recreational centers................at least in the US. Career criminals have no fear of prison. It's a place to go work out, play cards, and watch TV.

Our soldiers overseas live in conditions that are far worse than any prison in the US. If they want crime to drop, they need to stop taking our freedom away, and make prisons what they were intended to be........................punishment.

For starters, 8 hours a day, 6 days a week of hard labor. Sundays off. Nothing inhumane mind you.................just hard work. I don't think criminals will be quite so nonchalant about going back.

I 100% agree. How could any elected official, Republican or Democrat or Independent, disagree with that?

The panty-waist liberals on either side of the aisle would object because they are so inclined to coddle people rather than hold them accountable.

I like what Sheriff Arrapyo (spelling probably isn't correct) in Arizona is doing. I think he is near Phoenix or Tucson. He keeps his inmates in tents. If they complain or act up they are given pink jumpsuits to wear till they are ready to be civil again. He feeds them very plain food. There is no TV, girlie magazines, etc. to feed their minds with garbage.

Like was said, our places of detention for miscreants needs to be unpleasant so the people don't want to return, not simply a place with 3 squares and a cot. When people break the law they give up their say in whether they are comfortable or not. We should put them to work paying back to the communities they leached off of when they were free. They owe a debt to society that needs to be redeemed. A debt always has a cost attached and it is higher than the original cost.

Agreed!

You don't think that the law enforcement difficulty arising from obtaining warrants is related to your civil rights? You propose that the problem is that the police have to go to private sources, spend tax dollars to pay for illegal intel, and that this "unhealthy" problem could be alleviated by giving law enforcement more freedom to search without a warrant?

Your last sentence is simply the most anti liberty rant I have read on CR4. You cannot give power to a police state, and cross your fingers that it is not abused. You cannot say, "if you are not doing anything illegal, you don't have anything to fear."

You said, "you can't allow warrantless tracking with no oversight and nor justification"

I'm saying, you can't allow warrantless tracking. Period. The oversight and justification is provided by the judge issuing the warrant. A judge is there to protect your rights. If you do not comply with the law, you are held strictly to account.

You say "The invasion of privacy by authorities which prove unjustified cannot be continued without cause."

I'm saying, you cannot begin to invade someones privacy without cause, (a warrant is required). Who gets to decide what is justified without a warrant? This is classic slippery slope. Sometimes do bad guys get away with gaming the system? Yes. It is the price we pay.

GA - I think PFR is simply trying to nitpick.

Thanks. I certainly meant I am against any kind of warrantless intrusions. Maybe my fault if it wasn't perfectly clear.

I misunderstood a little also.

Although the police in the US are already using tactics that I consider wrong.

One of them is setting up random roadblocks and checking out every person that drives down a particular street. It outrages me every time I hit one.

I'm driving the speed limit, not breaking any laws, and for no reason at all I'm being stopped, and asked for ID and proof of insurance.

To me, it's not about, 'If I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about'.

To me, it's about, 'If I'm not doing anything wrong, leave me the hell alone and stay out of my face'.

Of course, they catch plenty of drunk drivers, and other infractions, which generates money, but to me, random checks on citizens just to make sure they're doing nothing wrong just stinks. I've almost wound up in jail because of the rage I feel for the intrusion in my life.

What's next, random home searches to make sure we're living within the law?

I have no sympathies for the role of enforcement as a tax collector.

I know they used road checks here to reduce drunk driving on New Years Eve or specific holidays when that is a well known problem and a genuine hazard to people on the road. This is okay to my mind, whereas the random road blocks are not at all!!

There is a lot of violent crime that isn't even reported here, and the focus of the police on 'taxation crimes' and things they can raise revenues with fines, instead of protecting folks from harm, is a complete waste of our tax dollars. We pay them with our tax dollars, to harass and fine people for trivial things, so the government can say they bring in revenue...?????

I know for a fact in our community here, a victim of human trafficking abuse went to the RCMP with evidence to ask for an investigation, and was turned away without a hearing, because the cop insisted, there's no human trafficking here, we are concerned about contraband tobacco!! No listen, no tell!

And another thing, that woman is a metis and a visible minority, and the comment about tobacco is very pointed, because it's associated with tax free tobacco on reserves. She has no connection to any tobacco smuggling but just being visibly native is enough to get a slap in the face. Go back to your slavers.

I think that we're agreeing.

The road blocks suck. The worst part is..................there are sections of Raleigh, and every other US city, where low level drug dealers operate with impunity. The prisons are overcrowded, the cops are tired of the revolving door at the courthouse, and they just don't care.

Meanwhile, the noose on the easy targets, (us law abiding citizens), gets tighter by the day. Gun laws? Criminals don't care about gun laws. The politicians come up with more and more laws and rules that only impact people that follow the law. Meanwhile, the people that don't, do whatever they want.

I'm tired of it.

Yes, road checks used to be on holidays. They also used to be announced, including location. That has quietly went away. Now it's any time of the day or night, anywhere. Random checks to insure compliance. This should not be happening in the country that I thought I knew and loved. On top of it, we've got the federal government suing the state of Arizona for enforcing immigration laws. I don't understand anything anymore. I do know that I can't expect to just slip into Canada and set up shop with no scrutiny.

Oddly, criminal organizations from the US seem to be able to "slip into Canada and set up shop with no scrutiny." no problem at all.

Hey it sounds like most nothing is working as it should! I'm sorry to hear about the troubles in your state as well. There was some news about Illinois a while back, you can't videotape a police officer or make a record of their acts.... veeeery bad scene. This stuff needs to be addressed before it gets out of hand.

I saw that.

Well now, seems to me, if the police aren't doing anything wrong, they shouldn't have anything to worry about.

I had some personal experience with a SLAPP suit many maybe over 20 years ago. I made a lot of notes about it the same night, and when I saw a lawyer it was the notes I had made that made all the difference. He made it clear to me, that the officer's word in court is taken above your word, for the reason that they keep a record at the time and you don't. So there's a record to substantiate their testimony, and nothing but your memory of how long ago, unless you also made a written record.

Notes are one thing, but video or audio recordings are a lot better. I had another experience of reporting a crime to the police, where I now wish I had an audio recording of what really happened. Because the officer made the notes and asked me to sign it, and it was so badly written I couldn't sign the first time and he had to start again. But then I signed the second statement out of desperation to get it over, even though it was a half assed version of what I said.

This will never happen to me again, because I carry an audio recorder with me at all times and if I ever encounter the police it will be on from the get go, whether I am reporting a crime or any other reason. People with cell phone video cams or video cams are also well advised to record any encounter. The legislation that they can legally stop you from doing this in Illinois will have to be trashed by the courts.

But if anyone is in that position, where they are prevented from making a video or audio recording of what goes on with the police, they should at minimum get access to a pencil and paper and make a dated and signed written record of what goes on. Written and other records have a lot of status in the courts, and eventually the constitution and the charter will win out over these insane infringements of the right to make documentation of what goes on.

I've got a story for you. I'll try to keep it short.

About 15 years ago I walked into a bar that I went to occasionally. I don't know if you've ever heard of liars dice. It's a dice game that bar people gamble on. Fun. A guy that I sort of knew was sitting there, it was a Friday, and he challenged me to a game of liars dice.................I think we started playing for 5 bucks a game.

After winning a few games, I realized he was wasted. I told him I'm not going to sit here and take your money when you're too f^cked up to play, let's just quit. Oh no! He wasn't going to have that. Well, I was drinking shots, and I figured, fine, lets play. Long story short, within 2 hours, I had relinquished him of about $1200.

I went home, showered, changed, and went back out. Later on ended up at another bar, and here was this same guy.....................with friends. Turns out, it wasn't his money that he lost. It was money that was supposed to go to some big time coke dealers. They were there and they weren't happy. By this time I was wasted. But screw them. I went to the bathroom before things got ugly and put the money in my sock, under my foot.

I ended up getting roughly escorted to the back storage area of a poker room next door to the bar. I was pretty drunk, but not incoherent. Turns out, this legal poker room was the front for the entire cocaine operation. "OH SH*T!"

Next thing I know, there's a uniformed police officer back there making the freaking argument to the others, that I had seen too much and needed to be killed and disposed of.

The only reason I'm here to tell you this story, is that A) Once I realized what was going on, I acted way, way drunker than I was. and B) It was the drug dealers that talked the cop out of killing me.

So I guess I'm a little biased when it comes to police and their ability to turn bad.

PS- I got popped in the face a couple of times and stumbled out of there with the money still intact, in my sock.

I hope I'm not scaring you. I'm a very settled home body these days.

Years before that incident, in another city, a friend of mine told me that he knew of some cops that were selling drugs....................while on duty, out of the patrol car!!!

I didn't believe it. No way!!! Well, we went to the section of town where he said this was happening, (late night). He knew exactly the cops that were doing it, so I followed them from a distance. Sure enough, they stopped and rousted some drug dealers on a corner, took their stuff, got back in the police car, and drove off. Ten minutes later, they pulled up to another corner gang, stayed in the car, and an exchange was made through the open window. It was enough to convince me.

I've got other stories from my retired police friend, about intentionally harassing and taunting black people back in the 60's..............while on duty. I let him know very loudly, what I thought of that behavior.

The point I'm trying to make, is that we should never assume that neither politicians, nor law enforcement, are highly evolved, enlightened species. They are not. If we hand them over power over our lives, there is a very real percentage of them that will abuse it. It's all of us that will pay the price.

I only wish I had one good cop story to tell you.... but I do not!

I guess the question in my mind now is, how does society address that problem? I know Internal Affairs is there supposedly to deal with corruption in the ranks, but it's obviously not effective.

Well, first of all, I still believe the bad cops are a small minority.......................I sure hope so anyway.

IA works, but it only works if the bad cops are caught. I'm sure you've heard of the blue wall of silence..............cops don't rat each other out. The town I lived in in California got enough complaints about the police that a citizen review board was set up. The real scary thing with cops that are criminals, is that they have way more to lose, so they are more dangerous than the street criminals. The back room incident was one of the scariest experiences of my life.

The video/audio recording of police incidents, should absolutely be allowed. The public needs to stand up and make sure it is. Not only cops, but prosecutors will lie in court to get a win. We've got a massive investigation going on here in NC, into cases where the state forensics lab was fudging evidence to help the prosecution. Yeah, we're talking about people going to jail that may not have been guilty. Not good.

The system will never be perfect, but at least here in the US, until someone comes up with something better, I think it would be a good idea to adhere to the Constitution.

I have different feelings about the treatment of people like the murderous Mexican drug cartels. They are not US citizens, and therefore are not entitled to Constitutional rights. We've got an administration in place at the moment that is very confused about who the Constitution protects and who it doesn't.