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The Coming Light Bulb Ban

Posted November 10, 2011 7:23 AM

It may have irked you, but if you haven't weighed in yet, feel free. The incandescent bulb ban starts rolling in January. Maybe you did your own tests on compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs). Popular Mechanics and other organizations did enough tests to demonstrate that most of today's CFLs do what they're supposed to — produce light more energy efficiently and less costly. But in measures like light color, reliability, start up, we have to make adjustments. Meantime, did you hoard some 100 W bulbs? Or, maybe you're ready to jump to LED technology?

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#1

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/10/2011 5:15 PM

Lets see.....................since no CFLs are made in the US, it should help create a lot of jobs......................in CHINA!!!!

But wait, I'm not being fair. It will create lots of jobs in the US too. We're going to have to hire a lot of new teachers to teach the youngsters about the evils of incandescent lighting........................not to mention the new police officers it's going to take to enforce the ban. All union members, and all paid for with tax dollars.

Sounds good. All we need is another round of stimulous dollars to make it happen. Not a problem when you're in the planet saving business.

We can say goodbye to these evil companies. They may not go away, they'll just have to become importers. I'm so proud of my government right now for standing up and doing the right thing...................even in the midst of a recession.

No reason to worry about these people. Who cares, GEs profits are skyrocketing?

Why are those workers worried? They can go straight from extended unemployment benefits, to welfare and food stamps. Yeah Baby!!!! It's a new America.

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/USAIncan

http://www.aerolights.com/

http://www.lightbulbdepot.com/

http://www.usstuff.com/lightinc.htm

If CFLs are so superior, why would the government have to ban incandescents? Are we too stupid to figure out for ourselves which ones we want? I guess so.

Goodie. Soon we won't have to think about anything, or make any decisions at all. That's gonna be great.

And before anyone comes along and tells me that Bush signed the legislation.......................I know.

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 12:01 AM

That is a great post Kramarat.

It is interesting to see the Aericans reel under the ban after the Europeans.

'Parens Patriae' is the policy by whoch governments are becoming our big daddy. Yes, if CFLs are so much better than Incandescent bulbs, we'd be choosing them ourselves!

I am reminded of an interesting ban in my country- ban on sale of cut-fruits. (fruits freshly cut and sold per slice/piece etc). Really, I am not even allowed to choose what to eat!

Soon, rightly said, we'd be left with no decisions.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 4:40 AM

...as many of us have absolutely no idea where you live as you forgot to tell us,its like water off a duck's back......

As hygiene is not paramount in many third world countries (I assume that for the moment till you tell us differently) and generally these countries have warm weather, bacteria have a sort of "free for all".......as not all street sellers have access to clean running water and are fully hygiene trainer......

My take is that the ban is probably a good idea, especially around children. Even here in Europe it would be a good idea to have such a ban (but fruit is generally not sold cut like that on the street here either).

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#11
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Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 5:06 AM

I am from India, and hygiene is paramount in my country just as yours.

And this also makes me a better judge to hygiene standards in India like my other nationals and also gives us ALL the background knowledge to make the decision of buying street food.If I as the government were to really think about hygiene,I would also think if the water I am supplying to every household in India is clean. But that is not the case. Most households in India don't even get running water. This is just one of those 'urban-friendly' rules in India that limits your decision making capacity and makes you assume all food not served on the street and probably wrapped in plastic and sold on well-lit shelves is clean! This argument is probably very local and be a little difficult for somebody from the west to understand.

Kids. Kids can get into trouble in a lot of ways and imposing a ban is definitely not the best way to teach anybody.

Andy, my argument is tomorrow alcohol will be banned, tobacco will be banned, next thing you know fast food is banned. So even though we have all the ability to judge what is good and what is wrong and make that choice for ourselves, yet at some point as Kramarat said we'll be left with no decisions. It will be a pure regimentalized society.

How are you feeling with the 'choice-free' CFLs in Germany now?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 6:17 AM

Firstly, I have had great life span from "Quality" CFLs, some have been running more than 6 years. Some of my LED lamps are relatively old and were never as powerful as modern ones, but are still working really great.......

I am from India, and hygiene is paramount in my country just as yours.

As to the problems of hygiene in India, I think that it is widely understood that you have MASSIVE problems, a large percentage of people live, sleep and defecate on the street.

And this also makes me a better judge to hygiene standards in India like my other nationals and also gives us ALL the background knowledge to make the decision of buying street food.

Laughable.

If India was to stop spending on military equipment just to have arguments with its close neighbours and start building social housing for the street people, more public toilets and baths, free for the street people, that would go a long way to help hygiene.

Most households in India don't even get running water.

True.

...and you still have the warm climate that does not help much.....I lived in Singapore for many years, I know the tropics.....and Singapore in the 60's was still cleaner than most of India today. Even then they had as good as no "street people".....

......makes you assume all food not served on the street and probably wrapped in plastic and sold on well-lit shelves is clean! This argument is probably very local and be a little difficult for somebody from the west to understand.

You assume far too much and all wrongly, I have eaten on the streets in many countries on this world, occasionally I have had the "Delhi-Belly" from doing that as bacteria are difficult to spot with the naked eye.....

I spent 10 years extensively travelling the world, never really stopped and few have travelled as extensively as I have or lived in as many countries......I would NEVER eat on the street in India today (or buy meat or cut fruit), the same as I would not in Mexico city to name another city full of defecating street people......the dust in both areas shows high levels of such "rest".....

Some tourists in these countries just visit and breathe the air and get sick as their body has no way to fight such bacterial attacks......it simply never learnt.

At around the same time that I lived in Singapore, I had a BOAC stewardess girlfriend from Calcutta, a beautiful Parsee lady, with a family at the top of the Indian Army......I know how they lived.......a private helicopter (from the army) was the least of their wealth....

For example, there are many YouTube videos about street people in India (probably about other places too!!):-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO0dBg_CS_0

May I say that trying to tell us that India knows all about hygiene is patently laughable.......but as you are probably one of the upper 1% with money and hygiene etc., why would you care? But don't try to make it better with untrue words on CR4, India is far too well understood in the rest of the world......many people send money each month to help them. A friend of mine goes every year to India to work for 2 months helping these people.....

You are obviously NOT a better judge of hygiene than we in the USA are......not by 1000% or more!!

If you continue with your untruths about hygiene in India, I will keep posting more and more websites, videos and other information to continue to prove that you are completely wrong.....there is a huge amount of information available about India that will shortly overtake China as having the most people in one country!!!

At least China is relatively clean, though it has a problem with street people as well, the same as many western countries! But we have public toilettes and showers, special places for street people to eat and sleep......its not a perfect world here either, but we don't shoot our mouthes off saying the opposite!!!!

See here for example:-

http://www.slumdogs.org/homeless-facts/

Here you can read the following:-

With a population of well over 1 billion people, India is the second most populous nation in the world. According to UN-HABITAT, India is home to 63% of all slum dwellers in South Asia. This amounts to 170 million people, 17% of the world's slum dwellers.

That is an AWFUL statistic, simply awful!!

Instead try and do something about these poor people in a positive manner.....money, food, accommodation, clean water for example....getting rid of your caste system would help tremendously......no more untouchables!!

India returned to the 18th Century when the British left and started fighting amongst themselves before they were gone on the grounds of religion. India is in many areas still VERY, very backward........plenty of room for improvement....

So I warn you, its best if you do not comment further in the way you already have, you will simply regret it......facts are fact....I am not alone here either....just tell the unvarnished truth.

Have a great day.

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#84
In reply to #12

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/14/2011 10:23 PM

When Germans talk about social equality it amuses me to no end!

Your attention to my words is flattering, really, especially you showing off your 'internet-knowledge' about my own country!

hehe :)

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#88
In reply to #84

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/15/2011 11:20 AM

Then you really cannot read English well, I also mentioned friends who go every year as quasi missionaries to India, trying to bring some small relief to the poor (and do I mean POOR!!) people of India.....My knowledge partly comes from shocked people with first-hand knowledge and experience of giving up their summer holiday for a good and needy cause.......

As yet, we have not seen any Indian missionaries working in Germany, the UK or the USA, bringing with them millions of $$$$ from people back home!!!!

But even using internet sources shows just how wrong you are as well.....are you going to try and tell us that the sources I mentioned are completely wrong? Do you expect us to believe you??? ..

You also demonstrate poor knowledge of the Germany that has arisen out of the ashes of the 2nd World War!!!!

As I said before, you are onto a losing game if you try and tell any of us here that India is only a third world country in name, everyone there is equal well fed and housed!!!!!!

We all know that there are homeless people everywhere, no country is perfect, but the sheer size of the problems in India "beggars" explanation......it's the worst "Black Spot" of its type known anywhere in the world, worse even than Bangladesh, Pakistan and China.....

India has enough riches for all, if it was slightly more equally and fairly divided and the army was run down to a peace keeping force only......and missile development was cancelled as was the making of Atomic Bombs....but no, the rich remain so and the poor get poorer......and the missiles and bombs get bigger and more numerous!!!

So stop trying to prove otherwise, you only make yourself appear stupid as though you didn't know or understand the "real" problems that sadly India faces....you who live there should know better, or maybe you are simply part of the real problem!!

Either way, you are not doing your people or your country a good turn with your biased and incorrect statements!!! If some westerners actually beolieve that you are correct, they may think twice about charity and help for India's poor and put it some other needy corner of the world, would you still then feel OK with your ego-trip to be even partly responsible for the possible lessening of outside funds? Even by one US Dollar?

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#96
In reply to #88

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

06/02/2014 2:03 AM

Mumbai

Bathing in sewage water.

Collecting untreated sewage for drinking.

Drinking untreated sewage.

The Mighty Ganges.

A Hindi Bathing area/open sewer in New Delhi.

A girl wades through untreated sewage to collect cleaner untreated sewage water for drinking.

Slum next to an open sewer.

Open sewar.

An oasis of sewage and slums.

Only 26 percent of India's 6 billion gallons of sewage generated daily is treated.

.

The government's solution:

Welcome to India.

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 1:49 AM

Kramarat, nice post but it is true but in the USA as here you get what the majority vote for. I take it you are not part of the majority.

Here we ban only Incandescent lamps that are for general lighting ie home and commercial decorative, and not special oven and technical lamps.

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#27
In reply to #1

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 10:39 AM

Kramarat is more right than he might know!

This ban makes no sense - for any reason.

It is not just an odd ban of a safe product in favor of questionably safe alternatives (reversing the usual logic behind product bans):

If the CFLs were good enough, whatever the price, people would buy them
voluntarily, as they do with other expensive alternatives "Expensive to buy but cheap in the long run"?
Think of Energizer battery bunny commercials, washing up liquid commercials etc
- proper marketing, rather than subsidised handouts, or bans on the alternatives

Switchover energy savings are typically less than 1% overall, and only
1-2% of grid electricity, as shown by official Dept of Energy etc data linked here:
http://ceolas.net/#li171x with alternative and much more meaningful ways to save energy in
generation, distribution or consumption.

Light bulbs don't burn coal or release CO2.
Power plants might. If there's a problem - deal with the problem,
rather than to ban simple safe light bulbs that people obviously like to use.

The light bulb ban does make sense... for major manufacturers. How they pushed for a ban for profit motives they themselves admit http://ceolas.net/#li1ax with copies of documentation and references

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#39
In reply to #1

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 1:27 PM

If CFLs are so superior, why would the government have to ban incandescents?

Well that is an easy answer. Cost.

I am an avid bicyclist and have 10 bikes now. None cost over several hundred dollars and are all of a design from the 1980's. Yes, there are much superior designs around that function much better, but until the government forces me to do so, I will continue to buy used outdated designs that work good enough for me, and not spend thousands of dollars. - Same principle with the CFL's versus incandescent. Think Billy Bob in Arppalachia living on welfare cares how well a CFL works. Nope. He buys the much cheaper incandescent bulb. (or rather, the US tax payers buy it for him)

Until prices become similar, average Joes tend to buy cheaper.

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#41
In reply to #39

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 3:30 PM

I"m one of the people that will spend more on quality and overall savings. I bought CFLs on the promise that they lasted 5 times longer than incandescents, or something like that. It was a lie.

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#43
In reply to #39

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 3:37 PM
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#44
In reply to #43

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 3:53 PM

The shipping brings them up to over 4 bucks a bulb. Besides, doesn't transporting them involve the burning of filthy fossil fuel?

Like I mentioned earlier, these bulbs are not made in the US. Do you honestly believe that we are going to save the planet by shipping toxic CFLs from China to our doorstep?

Where does the mercury go when these things are tossed in the dump?

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#60
In reply to #44

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 11:41 PM

Just bought a 8 pack of 13 W CFL (60W regular bulbs) for $2.00 + tax from Lowe's.

Most bulbs now a days aren't made here anyway I just replaced every bulb in my new house. Every single bulb that was replace was made in Mexico. So what's your point no bulbs are made here. Big deal if they where it would cost us three times the amount of the others and be just as crappy.

How come you never hear about all the toxins in a regular 60 W bulbs. i.e. lead etc.

Same thing could be asked about the thousands of house hold products through out our homes which are toxic but at a higher level.

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#63
In reply to #60

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 12:00 AM

I use CFLs too dickweed. My beef is with the ban. I just don't like being told what I can and cannot do...........................especially by my employees. They seem to be forgetting where they stand. It's up to us to remind them.

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#65
In reply to #63

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 12:38 AM

I do not use CFLs either, dickwe*d. For a reason, and MY decision.

Do not quote to me a behind the eight ball county's political decision. With that you simply label yourself as an ignorant one. I really would not want to go there.

Mercury. Lead and Cadmium are a maior heavy metal poisons. Period, end of sentence. The body has great difficulties removing them. Period, end of sentence.

Which part of it you have difficulty grasping???

By the way, you as in YOURSELF have the freedom of poisoning yourself and your loved ones, and your employed ones. And face the consequences.

By the way, I posed a question many times. You may be the first one capable answering it. Here it goes.

For years, there was a brohuhaha about fish containing part per million mercury, and not to be eaten. Then came the CFL, with 10 milliGramms in every tube, called to be good. That can and does get broken. And it is called good.

IF and when you try to come back, answer that first. Good luck.

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#66
In reply to #65

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 12:56 AM

Thanks for your permission wise one.

I've been painting for almost 30 years. 10 of those in industrial, including ripping out asbestos before anyone admitted that it was bad. I smoke a pack and a half a day. I drink as much and as long as I feel like.

Do you think I'm worried about some mercury in fish? Do think I'm worried about a light bulb?

I want the government out of my business. I want the government out of my daughters' business. I also want business to behave responsibly so we're not sending the entire planet into a poisoned rat hole. CAPICHE!

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#67
In reply to #66

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 1:42 AM

You bet I CAPICHE. And you are my kind of guy. Ornery, pain in the butt, opinionated. Did I leave out any? And I would not have it any other way.

see you tomorrow

As an aside, you iust might want to think of your liver, as a charity, to its owner, maybe? As Tumeric and Milk Thisle for support 3x a day. Not to diminish the fun, rather compensating for the fun itself. Old biochem. habits.

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#73
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Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 10:00 AM

It sounds worse than it is. I've always been told to drink in moderation. So during the week I drink 2-3 beers a night and lots of water. Come Friday or Saturday, I ramp it up considerably.

My wife and I were just having coffee and she was wondering what I was thinking about...............................................................CR4 damage control.

I approach the keyboard with my tail between my legs on Sunday mornings.

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 12:25 PM

you haven't had an "Incident" in a while

they can be quite entertaining

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#75
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Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 1:02 PM

Oh I'm sure..................as long as you're not me.

What's really funny is when I have an "incident" and wake up the next morning to find that I've picked up 2 or 3 GAs. I guess I must be channeling someone smarter than me when I'm in that state.

Yep, the colorful catalyst behind most of my incidents has left the room. I'm okay with that.

Plus, now that I'm almost 49 and a half, my worldview has clicked up to that of your average 15 year old. Things are much smoother now.

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#76
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Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 2:12 PM

I'm not much for drinking until I worship the porcelain god

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#77
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Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 2:52 PM

...with me that comes afterwards, sometimes in the middle of the night......

(Going to point Percy at the porcelain! Hanging out with a peer (Houses of Parliament toilets......)

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#78
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Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 3:32 PM

That's part of the problem. I don't barf. I don't get headaches or hangovers. And apparently I'm a bottomless pit. Therefore I have to relegate my mind bending escapades to one night a week. It also involves sleep deprivation, since I have to wait for the wife and kid to go to sleep before I go full throttle.

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#79
In reply to #78

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 8:02 PM

practice makes perfect

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#87
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Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/15/2011 11:00 AM

People get mad that I don't get headaches. Must be some kind of genetic quirk. I still have to be careful though. One little binge a week, with relatively healthy living in between, (aside from the smokes), works pretty well.

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#90
In reply to #87

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/17/2011 6:22 AM

I don't suffer from hang overs either. The only hang over I've ever had was the very first time I drank way to much. Ever since then nothing & I can put away quite a bit on a good/bad night. Everyone thinks its my metabolism. I also CAN'T gain any weight no matter how many calories I consume. I average 4000 calories a day just to maintain my 150 lbs.

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#91
In reply to #90

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/17/2011 7:19 AM

I'm not so lucky with the weight issue.

6' 4" 280 lbs. I'm not an obese slob, but I have to be careful.

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#71
In reply to #66

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 8:09 AM

OOPS, Sorry! My note on fish part per million etc. was obviously aimed at Baker... a number before. A mixup.

But, I take a compliment, whenever one is tossed my way.

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#68
In reply to #65

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 4:54 AM

For years, there was a brohuhaha about fish containing part per million mercury, and not to be eaten. Then came the CFL, with 10 milliGramms in every tube, called to be good. That can and does get broken. And it is called good.
do you eat many lightbulbs?

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#70
In reply to #68

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 8:01 AM

No, I am not in the habit of eating glass, lately.

But, CFLs are known to burn out. I mean, literally. They - as anything else too - are known to break. Then the mercury escapes into the air, without my active participation. And I breath it in, without even noticing it.

Having had a brush with heavy metal poisoning, that was enough for a lifetime. I am allergic to the thought of it.

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#72
In reply to #70

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 9:26 AM
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#85
In reply to #43

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/15/2011 10:04 AM

RE "CFLs cheaper", CFLs getting better, good LEDs coming etc...
These are common pro-ban arguments


But if the CFL alternative is so good, people would presumably buy them voluntarily

= Why ban incandescents, if fewer are bought anyway


Conversely,

if people still prefer incandescents

= Why ban incandescents, that is what people prefer to use


Either way, the ban is wrong ;-)


(and it is a ban not just on simple incandescents,but by 2020 on all known incandescents, as per the 2007 EISA legislation linked elsewhere here, and with marginal energy savings anyway, as referenced)

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#82
In reply to #1

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/14/2011 11:53 AM

And in addition to my previous email on cost, how about availability. I bought a strip light several years ago, and when one burned out, I went to replace the bad CFL. The big box chain store (intials H.D.) does not carry the replacement bulb anymore, nor does anyone else locally. Standard designs don't fit. I am back to standard incandescent at 160 W total. Do I scrap my strip light when the incandescents are gone?

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#2

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/10/2011 10:15 PM

What do the idiots that dreamed this measure up intend to do about the millions of ovens that will eventually need bulbs? Neither LED or CFL's can tolerate the temperatures required.

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 1:01 AM

Tsk, tsk. I am dismayed. So many narrow minds displayed. You iust have to bring some sacrifices to save us from.......whatever. So, be quiet, and eat your dinner with a healthy sprinkling of mercury. Be glad. That is your part for the greater good - however that is defined (or not).

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#3

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/10/2011 10:46 PM

Not to mention the toxic mercury that is contained in fluorescent lamps. How is that going to help the planet? Here's a thought...Let's keep the incandescent lamps, ban the legalized bribery of campaign contributions and increase revenues by taxing Chinese imports :) !!!

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#4

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/10/2011 11:51 PM

I understand a company is manufacturing 100 watt electric heaters, high efficiency units. Designed for easy installation, and when the bright light goes out, you know it isn't working anymore! In fact, it is a lot brighter than the dim bulbs in Congress who passed the legislation!

That reminds me of a Will Rogers' quote, "the opposite of Progress is Congress."

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#6

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 12:21 AM

10 months of the year I heat our house.

How does the CFL help?

The electric heaters just turn on longer now.

Ok, for 2 months of the year I cool, but wait, the days are longer and I don't need those lights so much then!

So that $15 CFL burns out because it is base up, but I saved a few pennies in electricity. That just does not add up.

Now if I move way south to Florida then I could see it makes some sense. But wait, when I retire I can become a snow bird and flee the cold and hot weather and travel the world in temperate weather! I will become environmentally responsible by becoming a nomad.

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#29
In reply to #6

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 10:52 AM

I'm with you on this.

When I recently purchased a television set I selected the one which best suited my needs, including making the most waste heat.

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#7

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 12:47 AM

It is difficult to expand on this thread starting with Kramarat, but I will try.

In Europe, after their ingenious ban, one guy has a booming business importing high efficiency heating elements, which accidentally put out some light too and has a screw-in socket.

The state of Georgia passed a law to build lightbulbs for domestic use, not for export. I expect nobody asking any questions.

The dim bulbs in the Congress passed the law of banning lightbulbs over 60Watts. Then why can I not find even lesser wattage in stores?

The dim bulbs foist upon us CFLs. So, let's see: part per million or less mercury is bad for your health, should not eat it. On the other hand 10 milligramm mercury in every CFL bulb is fine. When, not if it breaks, its cleanup costing thousands of dollars.

That is the level of quality control, when new laws are written. You would be fired for far less.

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#13

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 6:19 AM

The problem was not the low efficiency of incandescent bulbs,

The real problem is the low profit on the production of incandescent bulbs…

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#30
In reply to #13

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:23 AM

Yes Rudy the profit declarations can be seen on the below website..

As you seem to be in Europe , have fun reading the the strange story of how the EU banned the bulb ;-)

http://ceolas.net/#euban

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#14

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 6:37 AM

Yeah, I'm irked.

The thing that really gets me, is that the US government goes out of it's way to prevent monopolistic practices on US shores, and not only doesn't have a problem with the Chinese having the entire CFL market cornered, but is passing laws that will force us to buy them.

Government lie- Changing over to CFLs will be the equivalent to taking 800,000 cars off the road. Where do they come up with this stuff?

Reality- Once the US and Europe completely switch over, the Chinese will be churning these things out by the millions. The price will drop, as will the quality. So we will be replacing them more and more frequently, with the old ones going to the dump. These will be shipped around the world by freighter, and distributed by truck...................all burning fossil fuel. The Chinese plants will be producing lots of toxic waste in the manufacturing process. Well, they've figured out that it's not a good idea to dump that waste into the ground or rivers, so where does it go? Hint: They're not blasting it into space. It gets dumped into the ocean...................tons of it.

Saving the planet my a$$.

I've switched to CFLs. There is no noticeable difference in my power bill. The ones that hang upside down, burn out within a year.

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#18
In reply to #14

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 7:58 AM

For the most part I concur with your message. The biggest problem here and elsewhere the in the world, is complacency by the general public. Take this latest election cycle here where I live. A little less then 4% of the people that were to be governed by the local mayor and others voted. This is how these bad law makers get into and stay in office. How do we change this? Who knows! But, if the people of the world wish to be like the heard of cows I own so be it. I can get one to follow me the others will come as as well with little effort, right to market.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 8:13 AM

I don't know how to change things either. We had county school board elections here this week.............................less than 14% of registered voters participated. As a result, all of the good changes will be immediately reversed, and students will go back to being bused 20 miles plus from where they live. All in the name of social and economic diversity. Problem is...................they don't know where they will get the money to fuel the buses and pay the drivers for this wonderful plan.

All I can do is to speak loudly and clearly, try to get people to think and participate, and attempt to get them to understand the underlying damage that many of these policies create.

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#15

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 6:54 AM

Just as in Europe some one will find away around the ban.

Any body want to buy heat balls?

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/great-new-product-from-europe-heat-balls-t6648.html

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 7:04 AM

I thought about that.

My guess is that the next step the government will take, is to change the thread pattern in all new light fixtures to correspond to a new CFL thread pattern.

Let the battle begin. In the end, the government will win. If all else fails, they will simply tax incandescents out of existence.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 8:00 AM

Bottom line.

Sure we'll be switching over to CFLs.

But don't buy into the lie that you are saving the planet. It's a small world. All of the waste ends up somewhere, and our governments are well aware of it. It's all political posturing.

I know, [there is] no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of society, but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.

Thomas Jefferson 1820

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 8:32 AM

I wonder what Ol' Iron Eyes would say about CFLs?

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#80
In reply to #21

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/14/2011 9:22 AM

Did you know this guy was Actually a Sicilian immigrant? Not an American Indian at all. Saw this on discovery channel the other day. I was surprised by it myself.

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#83
In reply to #80

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/14/2011 12:01 PM

John Wayne was a draft dodger and George Reeves couldn't fly. Don't start debunking the myths of the magic box, my friend. Once you start you'll never stop!!

-A-

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#86
In reply to #80

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/15/2011 10:52 AM

Great..............it's probably the mafia running the Indian casinos too.

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#31
In reply to #15

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:32 AM

Heat Balls banned in Europe by court decision:

http://freedomlightbulb.blogspot.com/2011/07/update-on-heat-balls.html

Incidentally, RE the common ban propaganda

"Hey they waste 90% of energy as heat you know"

1. Energy Efficiency is not the same as Performance Efficiency =

It is much easier to construct a bright 100W incandescent than an equivalently bright (and omnidirectional) CFL or LED

2. As also covered in other comments here, the heat can be useful , as also proven by plenty of research http://ceolas.net/#li6x

3. CFLs themselves release 80% (LEDs 70%) of energy as heat, but internally, to give a fire risk especially with CFLs http://ceolas.net/#li18ex

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:36 AM

also, as for incandescent light bulb heat interfering with air conditioning cooling:

the use of incandescents is of course voluntary, and may be preferred for light quality and other reasons to bulbs that don't emit heat.

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:46 AM

It is much easier to construct a bright 100W incandescent than an equivalently bright (and omnidirectional) CFL or LED

it's also much easier to manufacture buckboard wagons than to manufacture automobiles, so what?

if you don't like the ban [raising the efficiency standards is not a ban] get involved, write an email to your representative,

buy a couple of truck loads of bulbs & become a bootlegger

progress happens

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#45
In reply to #34

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 3:58 PM

progress happens

You're close. Progressive liberal thinking happens. This is just the tip of a giant melting iceburg of bad decisions that these people will heap upon us.

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 7:22 PM

I've been buy CFL's for under a buck, for a couple of years now

maas production has driven the price down

I'm not defending the ban, I like CFL's so I don't care

but crying about the mean ol government, without doing anything to change things is pointless, saying no [see teaparty] without having a real plan is pointless

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 8:18 PM

You are correct.

Somehow I think you've mistakenly reached the conclusion that the teaparty is a legitimate political party though..............................they are not. So saying no is just fine.

Much like the march on wall street gang, people tend to get the loudest about what they are against.

Are you saying that the civil rights protests and the Vietnam protests were worthless because the protesters were just saying no, and should have stayed home because they didn't have a coherent plan in place to change things?

Interesting viewpoint. Once again, I'll have to disagree.

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:28 PM

being against something is not the same as being in denial, multiple choice questions, require more than a yes or no response

there is no accountability in a movement, after all no leaders, no structure

speaking of interesting view points

bringing the troops home from Vietnam is a plan, as is ending segregation...

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 7:07 AM

Well we've come full circle into agreement then.

Ending government intervention into every aspect of our lives is also a plan.

At least it's a start. Don't underestimate the power of "NO".

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#52
In reply to #49

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 8:34 AM

there is no reality in that plan...

or is it toll roads all around?

starting from scratch is going to be a huge amount of work, I was going to say expensive, but there won't be a currency

the avoidance of work is what's going on now

all this what amounts to philosophical discussion, instead of getting to work & raising the efficiency of the systems [agencies/regulators]

the political theater that is the debt crisis is a prime example

freak all the markets out over a procedural matter & then when push comes to shove, kicking the can down the road & going on a 5 week vacation

the solution by the so called conservatives, form yet another committee [12] to study the problem [& where exactly in the hallowed constitution do you find that], do the very thing they claim to be against. more bureaucracy

the no is a teenager refusing to do their chores, not anything rational

the problems that need solutions are not going to be "solved" by yes / no or even multiple choice type solutions

It's going to take cooperation not just within the government, but a more healthy form of collaboration with industry/business

what we have now is collusion/corruption, on this we agree

the power of no is limited

the power of optimism & hardwork unlimited...

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#53
In reply to #46

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 8:50 AM

I like CFL's so I don't care

Thank you for illustrating the point that I've been been endlessly trying to make here.

I don't ride a motorcycle- so I don't care about helmet laws.

I don't drink and drive-so I don't care about unconstitutional road blocks.

I quit smoking pot- so I don't care if everyone that does is thrown in jail, including for medicinal use.

I'm not doing anything wrong- so I don't care about illegal searches.

I'm not doing anything wrong- so I don't care about illegal wiretaps.

Garthh..................................Even if a law or ban doesn't affect us directly, we HAVE to care!

Shrugging our shoulders and ignoring freedom being stripped from someone else because it doesn't affect us is going to land all of us in a totalitarian nightmare. It's already well underway. We have a responsibility to care.

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#54
In reply to #53

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 9:30 AM

what's lacking are better/easier ways to be involved

voting is too indirect, grand jury is ok

how can the power of open source & social media be harnessed?

for more involvement, more informed opinion?

when did the CFL thing cross the line?

were rebates ok?

some of the rebates came from the utilities, some from the state...

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 3:03 PM

Rebates from the utilities are fine. The government doesn't have the money to pay people to adopt anything................they're broke.

It's the principle of this ban that bugs me. You and I both know that this ban will make no measurable difference in the yearly US power consumption. It's a power play that's coming from people that are addicted to power..................nothing more.

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#56
In reply to #55

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 3:29 PM

Youguys, as in you and Garth concern me. No sane person can keep up the tempo yoguys put on. Want to burn out in no time flat? I do not care to try to fill in.

SLOW DOWN ALLAROUND< GUYS!!!!

SLOW DOWN< CAPICHE??!?

SLOW,

DOWN

take a breath, take even a FULL day off

I promise to fill in

for not more than a day

as it is damn exhausting

only for a day, not more

best regards

I cannot handle it!

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 3:52 PM

You are old f***rts,

cannot keep up the

tempo.

Settle down

we all love you

now take

your siesta

it is

wearing

anyhow

best regards

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#58
In reply to #56

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 4:04 PM

I can't speak for Garthh, but I'm just happy to have a couple of worth while threads to spar on over the weekend.

Sorry we're wearing you out.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 9:23 PM

we'll be here all week

don't forget to tip your waitress...

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#69
In reply to #58

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 5:07 AM

LOL!

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#50
In reply to #34

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 8:21 AM

Garth

this common "old obsolescent light bulb" type of argument does not hold up:

Industry stopping to use say radio tubes (which are related) is not the same as banning them for those who want to use them (any guitarists out there ;-))

Government banning an old technology is very different - those buckboard wagons aren't banned either, after all!

Banning a safe-to-use product is extraordinary, and should be seen as such. Also: By definition, old technology is also well known and safe technology

We can welcome the new - it does not mean having to ban the old

(and the energy usage regulations are of course a "ban", see other comment about that)

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#42
In reply to #31

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 3:35 PM

Hey lighthouse,

Thanks for the great posts and links. I wasn't aware that the heatballs had been banned in Europe. Not surprising though.

My main use for 100 watt incandescents is exactly that................I use them inside a box over my well head to keep the pipes from freezing in the winter.

I will be stocking up on some this weekend.

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#51
In reply to #42

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 8:23 AM

Kramarat, thanks

Canada seems likely to delay ban to 2014, and Texas may manufacture them, if you are near those regions ;-) ...I linked to that somewhere else here

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#95
In reply to #42

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

12/14/2011 9:30 AM

re heatballs, -forgot you knew about it.. just posted a reply that they are now looking to appeal it in other specific post about it

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#61
In reply to #31

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 11:50 PM

Some interesting facts rebutting your statement.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/cflbulb.asp

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#89
In reply to #61

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/16/2011 7:32 AM

BakerJohn

Just saw your reply... (bit hard to follow comment replies in the thread!)

RE the Snopes.com website claiming CFLs are not that bad etc,

while US Govmt EPA clearly consider them a greater danger in terms of mercury (compared to any incandescent tungsten), and product recalls and firemen journals (as linked) have shown fire risks, and institutional research the radiation concerns, it is rather beside the point overall...

ie that the "big savings" that in the first place supposedly justify banning what people want to buy (if the bulbs were not popular, there would be no "need" for a ban, Halogens are still different, and also banned before 2020) are hardly there, and even if the savings were there and seen as important, that the bulbs could simply be taxed and pay for price-lowering subsidies on energy saving alternatives.

It would be more relevant to deal with electricity generation, grid efficiency and alternative consumption measures as covered in other comments, at least in the "multi-year bulb ban savings" perspective that politicians keep talking about -- and light bulbs don't burn coal or release CO2 gas, power plants might.

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#62
In reply to #31

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/12/2011 11:54 PM

Some more interesting facts about the supposed Hazards of CFLs.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

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#64
In reply to #31

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/13/2011 12:06 AM

Another interesting fact tungsten used as the filament for bulbs is a known toxic hazardous material.

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925358

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#17

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 7:58 AM

I need the incandescent bulbs to keep my wife's bearded dragon and the cricket box warm. I suppose they will still be available as heat bulbs.

What about the bulbs that make the Easy Bake Oven work? I'm going to miss that first little homemade cupcake.

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#24
In reply to #17

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 9:51 AM

Stock up or change to heaters....

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#22

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 9:02 AM

Halogen?

or is there a problem with more efficient incandescent bulbs?

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#25
In reply to #22

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 10:00 AM

Halogen are only slightly more efficient than normal incandescent lamps, not worth the price difference.....

I found a weblink here:-

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7675454_halogen-lights-vs-cfl-lights.html

That shows this:-

Comparison The main difference between halogen lights and CFLs is their power consumption. A 300-watt halogen light can use 220 kilowatt-hours per year, whereas a 23-watt CFL typically uses a little more than 100 kilowatt-hours per year to produce roughly the same amount of light. Also, halogen lights burn at 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, which can pose a fire hazard. Because CFLs do not need to heat a filament, they operate at a much lower temperature.


Read more: Halogen Lights Vs. CFL Lights | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7675454_halogen-lights-vs-cfl-lights.html#ixzz1dPQ1F4od

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 10:25 AM

the link was for everyone crying about the phasing out of simple edison type bulbs

halogens are good for outside lighting, where low temps make CFL's problematic

the price difference is not much...

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#35
In reply to #26

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:47 AM

We and my neighbours use CFLs in outside lights, accasionally in winter we get days of minus 25°C, the CFLs still run without problems.

Maybe its a quality problem, the ones we use are from Phillips if that is any help.....

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:59 AM

whatever

so are you for or against buckboards?

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 1:10 PM

I liked your analogy, but I am for modern lighting.

As the driver of the buckboard, all you see is a farting horses's arse rear end!!

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#33
In reply to #22

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 11:39 AM

ALL known incandescents including Halogen types are banned before 2020 (USA)
See the 2007 EISA legislation
http://freedomlightbulb.blogspot.com/2011/07/yes-it-is-ban.html
More on regulations and official links http://ceolas.net/#li01inx

Of course the temporarily allowed Halogen-type incandescents are
different in light quality etc anyway, and are not popular either with politicians or consumers, due to marginal savings for a much higher price.

Besides, in post-ban Europe and Australia, they are hardly available in main stores, CFLs being the pushed alternative.

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#23

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 9:36 AM

I am quite comfortable with my quartz lights all around. No CFLs ever, as I am keenly aware of the poisonous nature of mercury. I am no friend of the "no lowest limit concept" on poisons. Your body is capable of removing them, normally. The ones it has most difficulty with are: Mercury, Lead, Cadmium, as far as I know.

So let me take it slow: should I obey the diktate of the dim bulbs of the Congress at the threat to my health, or ignore the dim bulb's order and keep my health???? Difficult, difficult. NAH. The dim bulbs can go and shove it. I keep my health. For some reason, permanent damage to my nervous system does not tickle my fancy.

By the way, IF you are a true believer, please feel free, go ahead, and install CFLs in your home. It is yours, so is your family. Your responsibility. So is the detox. they have to endure, when (not if) the tube fails, the mercury evaporates and you and your loved ones inhale it. And do not ask me for help. I did my share by refusing to participate in this insanity.

When (not if) DC powered LED lights come on the market, I will take a closer look. The present switching power supply powered ones are maior electric noise polluters. I happened to be a radio amateur. Have no use for noise generators. It also happened to be a prime example, that one size does not fit all.

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Trying to enforce it? Think about Abolition of Alcohol with your name attached to it. That was tried, with predictable outcome. And there will be plenty of us reminding the rest, who were pushing it.

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#28

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 10:47 AM

The ban 1 jan 2012 on 100w bulbs may be delayed federally by the Burgess funding amendment,

legislation info and updates on repeal light bulb ban bills in 7 US states (legislate­d Texas) http://ceolas.net/#li01inx

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#38

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 1:14 PM

One problem is: Life is too full of bans and controls for an individual to champion a cause. Often times, the presures against are too great for the public to fight against. No one is going to devote much time fighting a ban against incandescent lamps. A letter here, a letter there is about all anyone can or is willing to do. When there are large amounts of money at stake, the public's voice is quietly put to rest. Action requires overwhelming participation, something most people won't do. People are struggling every day to make ends meet, pay the rent and put food on the table. A ban on light bulbs isn't a big concern compared to the everyday ones. If it does come to pass, it may take a few years before it might be reversed when enough concerned citizens start to make their voices heard. The next thing will be a penalty for using too much electric power.

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/11/2011 1:52 PM

I thought I was already penalized for using (too much) power. The sliding rate scales do a marvelous job of that! Now if I was large heavy manufacturer I could get the power at $.045/kwhr versus about $.07 for residential.

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#81
In reply to #38

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

11/14/2011 11:42 AM

And so it came to pass,

in the autumn of 1879, after tireless effort working with different materials, Thomas Edison finally arrived at the ingenious invention we still see today, the Edison light bulb, in its basic form, without any energy efficiency constraints, the world's single most popular electrical appliance and the oldest electrical invention in widespread common use:
A beautifully simple, safe, cheap, bright light delivering construction.

Maybe the time will come when, like its cousin the gleaming radio tube, it gradually fades away, the passing of old technology.

But let it be a democratic passing by the will of the people,
not a passing by committee dictats and decrees.

How many politicians should it take to change a light bulb?
None.

How many citizens should be allowed to choose?
Everyone.

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#92

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

12/14/2011 6:04 AM

Incandescent bulb if used, and 90% of its energy gets waste as heat means, CAN WE USE IT AS ROOM HEATER?

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#93
In reply to #92

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

12/14/2011 8:08 AM

Many are used as heater, over food, over young chicks and other animals......only main difference between these lamps and normal ones is that they are extra designed to also reflect the heat downwards with a reflective coating.....

I have used lamps as high wattage resistors in some projects over the years.....cheap!

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#94
In reply to #93

Re: The Coming Light Bulb Ban

12/14/2011 8:37 AM

thank u andy sir.

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