Challenge Questions Blog

Challenge Questions

Stop in and exercise your brain. Talk about this month's Challenge from Specs & Techs or similar puzzles.

So do you have a Challenge Question that could stump the community? Then submit the question with the "correct" answer and we'll post it. If it's really good, we may even roll it up to Specs & Techs. You'll be famous!

Answers to Challenge Questions appear by the last Tuesday of the month.

Previous in Blog: Frozen Pond: Newsletter Challenge (November 2011)   Next in Blog: The Rain and the Sea: Newsletter Challenge (January 2012)
Close
Close
Close
20 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

Posted December 01, 2011 10:46 AM

This month's Challenge Question:

Earth's Atmosphere

Unlike other planets with atmosphere (e.g., Jupiter), the Earth's atmosphere does not have appreciable amounts of hydrogen or helium. Why is this?

And the answer is:

This happens only if the other planet is heavier than Earth. This is the case of Jupiter with a mass about 320 times greater than the Earth. A smaller planet than Jupiter, Earth has a weaker gravitational attraction for these lighter molecules. A molecule must possess an escape velocity greater than 1.1 x 104 m/s to escape the Earth's gravitational field. Because the average speed of helium or hydrogen is considerably higher than that of nitrogen or oxygen, more helium and hydrogen escape the Earth's atmosphere into outer space. Consequently only tracers of helium (0.000524%) and hydrogen (0.000055%) are present in our atmosphere.

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#1

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/01/2011 11:01 AM

Gravity.

The surface gravity of the larger planets is able to hold the lighter gases.

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glen Mills, PA.
Posts: 2385
Good Answers: 114
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/01/2011 5:08 PM

I didn't know that!

__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5363
Good Answers: 647
#2

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/01/2011 3:14 PM

Doorman is correct. To elaborate on his answer, it has to do with the mean free path of the molecules of the light gases being equal to the scale height. It is known as Jeans Escape. In the upper atmosphere the gases will have a broad spectrum of velocities mostly depending on their temperature. The molecules with the highest speeds will actually be moving faster than the escape velocity at that altitude. Thus, over a long time, most of the light gases have leaked away from the Earth. They are replenished at a very low rate by atomic fission releasing helium and by dissociation of water producing hydrogen.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
Good Answers: 70
#8
In reply to #2

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/02/2011 1:01 PM

This is probably a partial restatement of your answer, but another factor is that the earth is a metallic rocky planet, with a higher percentage of heavier elements. As a result we have a higher percentage of heavy gasses in our atmosphere than say Jupiter or Saturn, and the lighter gasses naturally float to the top of the atmosphere where they are somewhat more exposed to the solar wind, which is of course much stronger nearer to the sun than in the outer reaches of the solar system where the gas giants live. I'd guess that the hydrogen and helium concentrations on Venus are lower still, even though it's atmosphere weighs several times as much as ours. Poor Mercury has been pretty much stripped naked.

Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2
#19
In reply to #2

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

01/31/2012 10:08 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't helium produced by atomic fusion and not fission?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5363
Good Answers: 647
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

02/06/2012 12:21 AM

One of the 3 primary fission products is alpha particles, i.e., helium nuclei. Once they grab a couple electrons to become electrically neutral they are then helium atoms.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Reply
4
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#4

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/01/2011 11:48 PM

Surface gravity is partly the reason. The pressure of an atmospheric gas decreases with altitude. Atmospheres are not uniform in temperature, so the exact determination of the atmospheric pressure at any particular altitude is complex. The distance from the sun determines the energy available to heat atmospheric gas to the point where its molecules' thermal motion exceed the planet's escape velocity. When this happens, the gas molecules overcome a planet's gravity, and escape into space. Distant and cold 'planets' like Pluto are able to hold their atmospheres in spite of low gravity because of low energy from the sun.

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phnom Penh
Posts: 4019
Good Answers: 102
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/02/2011 1:47 AM

GA from me even though Pluto is not a planet anymore. Planetary title decay....

__________________
Difficulty is not an obstacle it is merely an attribute.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 104
Good Answers: 5
#6

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/02/2011 9:40 AM

How is it that in parts of the southwest of north america, there are wells with vast amounts of high purity CO2 and, I am told, of reserves of Helium. How did these gases get 'trapped' or 'generated' and does this phenomenon exist in other parts of the earth? Anyone know?

__________________
deanpavil
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: 18N 65W o
Posts: 1003
Good Answers: 28
#18
In reply to #6

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

01/03/2012 3:20 PM

Earth Helium is found in natural gas. It is the result of the decay of Uranium and Thorium. Earth has insufficient gravity to keep it in the atmosphere. US SW has most of the worlds He. Don't know why we have it and Canada with its gas reserves doesn't.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phnom Penh
Posts: 4019
Good Answers: 102
#7

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/02/2011 10:52 AM

There's not much hydrogen in the earth's atmosphere because of the presence of oxygen.

A lot of the Earth's hydrogen is in the water.

Not sure about the helium.

__________________
Difficulty is not an obstacle it is merely an attribute.
Reply
Member

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: European Bermuda Triangle (Germany,Luxembourg,France)
Posts: 7
Good Answers: 1
#9

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/05/2011 10:26 AM

Hydrogen and Helium are light gases. The more massive the molecules of a gas are, the lower the average velocity of molecules of that gas at a given temperature and the lower is the chance that any of them reach the so called escape velocity. Escape velocity out of earths atmosphere is lower as from f.e. Jupiters atmosphere. Earths atmosphere is warm enough and the escape velocity of Hydrogene and Helium is high enough to leave our planet and to give me (and my Kois in the frozen pond) a chance to breave...

pinball-wizzard

__________________
Pinball-Wizzard
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 250
Good Answers: 7
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/05/2011 11:47 AM

What about Ar? We have almost 1%, how is it in other planets?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Member

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: European Bermuda Triangle (Germany,Luxembourg,France)
Posts: 7
Good Answers: 1
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/06/2011 3:51 AM

Ar is the 3. common inert gas on earth. It has the atomic number 18 and is a heavy gas. The Isotope 40Ar on earth is mostly build by potassium 40K. In gasplanets like Jupiter and in the sun we´ll find the isotope 36Ar and 38Ar but not 40Ar. Planets and moons with their origin atmosphere and without gelogical activities (the reason for by 40K composed 40Ar to leak from potassum) have an Ar which is build up of around 80% by 36Ar and 20% 38Ar. A representative for it is the Venus which has 300 times less 40Ar as the earth. At Saturns moon Titan we´ll find only 40Ar. This is an indication that in Titans primary origin was no atmosphere and the primary existing 36Ar and 38Ar was lost.

__________________
Pinball-Wizzard
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
#12

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/06/2011 11:47 AM

The earths atmosphere is too dense with heavier elements, eg nitrogen, oxygen etc. for the two lightest elements to remain in suspension.

Reply
Participant

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3
Good Answers: 1
#13

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/06/2011 3:00 PM

Also, it's warmer on earth. Even at the coldest points on/in our planet and in our atmosphere, the light gasses are fully gasses. On the colder outer planets, there is probably equilibrium between liquid and vapor of those gasses, especially deep in the atmosphere where the pressure would be high. I can envision something like the water cycle on earth, with the light gasses or hydrocarbons on other planets.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 507
#14

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/07/2011 1:17 AM

the earth's gravitation is not hard enough to hold the light elements hydrogen and helium in its gravitational area is one reason (v>11210m/s). Is there ever been enough pure hydrogen or helium in the earth's matter to leave appreciable amounts of it in the earths atmosphere or did the jupiter (or maybe the sun) in their creation state fetch all the hydrogen and existing helium into their gravitational field?

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#15

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/10/2011 1:45 PM

It's all been used up in balloons and dirigibles...and for people to talk like chipmunk

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
#16

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/13/2011 3:18 PM

Simpley the Earth does not have enough gravitational pull to hold all of the Hydrogen and Helium. They are lighter then air and escape the atmosphere.

Reply
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
#17

Re: Earth’s Atmosphere: Newsletter Challenge (December 2011)

12/20/2011 10:40 PM

The combination of the high volatility of the element and the scarcity (only naturally produced by the decay of thorium and uranium) may contribute to the low amount of helium in Earth's atmosphere.

Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 20 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

deanpavil (1); Doorman (1); ebolton (1); JerryD2010 (1); johnfotl (1); johnny camaro (1); JWthetech (1); passingtongreen (1); pinball-wizzard (2); schaefer.don (1); Snel (1); SolarEagle (1); StandardsGuy (1); Usbport (2); Wal (2); WilhelmHKoen (1); willjack (1)

Previous in Blog: Frozen Pond: Newsletter Challenge (November 2011)   Next in Blog: The Rain and the Sea: Newsletter Challenge (January 2012)

Advertisement