Speaking of Precision Blog

Speaking of Precision

Speaking of Precision is a knowledge preservation and thought leadership blog covering the precision machining industry, its materials and services. With over 36 years of hands on experience in steelmaking, manufacturing, quality, and management, Miles Free (Milo) Director of Industry Research and Technology at PMPA helps answer "How?" "With what?" and occasionally "Really?"

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Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

Posted February 01, 2013 10:26 AM by Milo

The tolerance on cold drawn steel bars for machining is always specified as plus nothing minus some value…

So why are the dimensions on the bars held to the minus rather than plus side? Don't we want to get more steel per foot for our money?

May I have your answer please?

[And the answer is …]

The reason for the dimensions being held to the minus side is so that the bars can easily pass through a hole of nominal size.

If the bars were the same nominal size as the hole, they would be very difficult to assemble. If the bars were even slighty larger, they would not pass through.

So bars are held to the minus side of each nominal dimension to assure that they can pass through the nominal size hole- whether it be a bushing, pulley, gear, collet, support bearing or any similar application.

The bars must measure less than the nominal hole size to permit assembly.

How did this come to be?

[Before the era of electric motors, power was transmitted to each machine by means of belts and pulleys running on cold finished shafting.]

Line shafting! The power transmission shafts that ran across the ceilings of shops while being held in bearings were called line shafting. The power was taken from the shafts by belts and pulleys. The shafts were held by bearings afixed to the ceiling joists. The shafting had to fit into these bearings and pulleys.(These shafts were driven usually by a single large motor, steam engine, or water wheel…)

It has been some time since power transimission shafting has been used commercially to drive our lathes and drills commercially.

But we have the legacy of cold finished shafting to thank for the foundational concept of tolerances on bar products being held to the minus side.

Thanks to John Halladay at PMPA technical Vectron in Elyria Ohio for the archival shop photo from the Perry Fay company.

And if you have a burr problem with some of your production, you can call on Vectron to help you with that too.

Do you have memories of working with machinery driven by line shafting in your career? We'd love to hear your story…

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Editor's Note: CR4 would like to thank Milo for sharing this blog entry, which originally appeared here.

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#1

Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/01/2013 11:55 PM

Line shafting isn't dead yet; it wasn't too long ago that a company I worked for made a cantaloupe sorting conveyor with eight powered diversion belts like moving walls, all driven via bevel gears off a common shaft.

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#2
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Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/02/2013 8:37 AM

It was a number of years ago (maybe 20), but I visited a woodworking shop in St. Pete, FL, that had a number of machines running off a line shaft like this. The owner, who showed me around the place, was a really young guy, friendly, and ambitious. I'd bet the place is still there and doing well.

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#3
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Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/02/2013 9:20 AM

Thanks Tornado and Usbport. That woodworking shop won't stand a chance if OSHA drops by.., Milo

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#4

Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/02/2013 10:29 AM

It has to do with true positioning tolerance requirements.

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#5
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Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/02/2013 12:44 PM

Belts do NOT provide true positioning, unless they are cogged!

I've never seen an overhead line shaft with cogged belts/pulleys.

The last time I remember seeing an overhead line shaft was in the early '50s, in an old authentic blacksmith shop in Colorado. There was a drop hammer; I don't remember what else was powered by the belts.

As someone else hinted, these systems were famous for removing hands and arms from careless operators and others.

I also remember something like 50 foot long belts connecting the Power Take Off of tractors to harvesting machinery. Incredibly dangerous!

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#7
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Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/04/2013 9:03 AM

I have worked on belt drives where there was a center bearing support and that required TP.

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Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/04/2013 10:45 AM

BY True Positioning, I've been assuming you are referring to Rotational Angular Position; that is the synchronization of the angular position of multiple shafts. Again, no belt I've ever seen does that with precision unless it had some form of cogs (teeth, holes, etc.), and that only for relatively light loads.

By center bearing support, are you referring to a belt tensioner?

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#6

Re: Why Tolerance Is Minus On Bars For Machining

02/02/2013 9:26 PM

In Amish communities, the machine shops still has this.

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