Engineering News Blog

Engineering News

Latest news of interest to engineers. Sourced from GlobalSpec's Engineering News

Previous in Blog: Quantum Uncertainty Principle on Objects Large Enough to be Seen with the Naked Eye   Next in Blog: Paintballs To Deflect The Next Meteor
Close
Close
Close
23 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

Posted February 18, 2013 9:38 AM

From ExtremeTech:

Once upon a time, the steam engine reigned supreme - first in trains and heavy tractors, as you well know, but eventually in cars as well. It's quite hard to fathom today, but at the turn of the 20th century, more than half the cars in the US were steam-powered. The steam engine was so advanced that, in 1906, a steam car called the Stanley Rocket even held land speed record - a heady 127 mph!

Now, you might think that the steam car was only a success because internal combustion engines (ICE) didn't exist yet - but in actual fact, steam cars and ICE cars were developed contemporaneously. Because engineers already had 100 years of steam engine experience, though, the steam car had a rather large head start. While hand-cranked ICEs were breaking the arms of hapless operators, by 1900 steam cars were already highly automated - and, with no clutch or gearbox (steam provides constant pressure, unlike the piston strokes of an ICE), very easy to drive. The one caveat, of course, was that you had to wait a few minutes for the boiler to heat up.

In a few short years, though, Henry Ford would come along and change everything. While the steam engine might've been technically superior to the ICE, they couldn't match the price of mass-produced Fords. Steam car makers tried to shift gears and market their cars as premium, luxury products, but by 1918 the Model T Ford was six times cheaper than a Stanley Steamer (the most popular steam car at the time). With the advent of the electric starter motor in 1912, and continuing advances to the efficiency of ICEs, it wasn't long until the steam car vanished from our roads.


Read the whole article

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#1

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/18/2013 1:45 PM
__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/18/2013 2:02 PM

I would love to see what a world would look like if Stanley Steemer had out-competed Henry Ford. (although it would be a sad world without my 1980's era mini)

Drew K

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#3

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/18/2013 10:07 PM

The local gas station might take on a different look....

Bonus links....

Yeah, any day now....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mO0PW1w7Zvk

http://www.stanleysteamcars.com/

The first,,,,and last? Steam powered airplane....

http://www.rexresearch.com/besler/beslerst.htm

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/18/2013 10:24 PM

I don't know about you, but I'm guessing this is not the future....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/18/2013 10:33 PM

This might be though....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#13
In reply to #6

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 8:31 AM

I like picture number two, but can't imagine how you maintain chassis stiffness with those doors.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#12
In reply to #4

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 5:16 AM

I was having a good giggle, then toggled over to Wiki. It could be a long day if I venture to find some pics of bizarre contraptions. Luckily this may not happen since my mind has ambled on from Drew's post and I'm wondering how life would have evolved with no such stuff as oil on the planet.

CR4 seriously needs an 'off the wall' section'. I'd set it as my homepage !

Does anybody else recall the biopic of Henry Ford (it may have been Howard Carter for all I know) ? In the factory, he chucks something heavy at the side of a vehicle and steam vents forth. "That", he says, "is why we are not going to build them like that".

This mornings news seemed full of stuff about rising gas prices in America. Come to Blighty and weep at the pump prices. Threads such as this may seem a little mad, but you never know what may happen in a few years time. Think I'd better change avatar picture before anybody gets smart ideas.. Were I feeling more mischievous, I'd link this to some current CR4 discussions on pushbikes. Forget the spare tyre, just pack a bicycle. Give it another 5 years, and the Hemming's blog will read very different. We've eaten all the cakes, and our grandchildren will just have to settle for possum and gravy (select regional food applicable).

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 476
Good Answers: 32
#5

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/18/2013 10:25 PM

Curiously I've often pondered an eletric/steam hybrid. The electric would get you going while the steam boiler warmed up then you kick in a classic steam turbine for the generator. Kind of GMs new Steam Volt.

__________________
johny451
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/18/2013 10:38 PM

From Yahoo....

"I was a bit taken aback by your question, as steam engines are not known for their efficiency (as low as 1% efficient, according to Wikipedia), but an internet search turned up some interesting research in this area. So sure, it is an idea worth exploring.

*Short EV ranges are not a problem anymore, however, with the development of fast recharge batteries (Altairnanos.) The batteries in these electric cars can be charged in just 10 minutes, and the ZAP-X has a driving range of 350 miles:*


http://zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=456


http://phoenixmotorcars.com


http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070529083055AA8BMtF

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#16
In reply to #5

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 12:14 PM

I am all for hybrids, I like the idea of harnessing the waste heat from an ICE. I know some of the big names have tried some methods in the past; I think BMW used thermoelectric generators on exhaust parts.

I want to add a boiler jacket to an exhaust manifold and run steam through a supercharger to add hp back to an engine...(I just need to convince my buddy to let me put his mustang engine on a bench and play with it for a while). A separate system could use the waste heat to spin a turbine that is hooked to a generator, if coupled with the hydraulic system someone else spoke of excess energy (and braking power) could be stored in accumulators (aka pipe bombs in a crash).

Drew K

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: West Coxsackie, NY
Posts: 533
Good Answers: 10
#8

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 12:03 AM

This certainly makes the case of starting, building a fire in the car before taking off, AKA warming up the car.. As long as you are not expecting an emergency, MY WATER BROKE! The baby is coming!! There are many advantages of having electric or an old ICE to move quickly. Steam is not quick, but is good and maybe should be explored more.

__________________
"Real Bass Players" do not use picks
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 989
Good Answers: 14
#9

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 12:06 AM

More likely they will be powered by micro-mini nuclear reactors like the ones Toshiba is working on.

I'll take the orange one!

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 12:54 AM
__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Aggieland, Texas
Posts: 722
Good Answers: 8
#11

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 5:04 AM

They may a comeback with the Cyclone Mark V engine. Check it out.

http://www.cyclonepower.com/technical_information.html

Have some fun today,

PAPADOC

RMFR

Noone asked to be born.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#14
In reply to #11

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 10:25 AM

That was exactly what I was struggling to find and talk about. Apparently, the cyclone power engine has a very short warm up time, and the steam generator operates off once-through total evaporation with super-heating of the final steam, so the water storage tank needs to be purified water, but that is not so hard to come by. Also, if I am not mistaken, this engine relies upon an on-board condenser to recover condensate and reduce the demand for pure makeup water. Very good design. There was a piece on How it's Made on the Science channel about this last month.

What about a steam powered lawn mower that burns it own (previously dried) grass clippings? Can you think oxygen enrichment using a blower and a gas membrane system? I refuse to push a reel mower.

Also, instead of electric hybrid, why not save a lot of weight and go hydraulic hybrid? I would think a steam turbine (or a piston steam engine) should be able to spin up a high pressure hydraulic pump without any problems.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#15
In reply to #11

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 12:07 PM

I really like this but have some questions. I don't want this to come as a cross examination of your link...I just really want to know.

How is vacuum established in the condensor? How is air ejected from the system if the pistons and condensor are not kept at a vacuum when the engine is not running?

From ambient to 1200F how is thermal expansion controlled? How does dry superheat steam lubricate the pistons?

What is it made of, materials tend to get weird at 1200F and 3200 psi.

Drew K

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#17
In reply to #15

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 1:14 PM

The answers to your questions are all contained in the company website, I watched the videos and learned that a closed loop water system is the lubricant, and by the use of high technology seals and bearings, water is perfect for the application. Final exhaust from the combustor is kept to near 300 F (you can still bake bread using this), by pre-heating the water that is under pressure just before it enters the steam coils. This thing is not over-simplified, they really put some serious engineering thought and principles of combustion engineering into this design. Look for it to take off.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 1:52 PM

What's the mpg?

On the plus side you could sell hot dogs when ever you stopped...

..............

Now this is a pretty cool looking steamer....

http://www.retrothing.com/2008/12/page/2/

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#21
In reply to #18

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/20/2013 9:47 AM

With 1200 degree F steam, the cycle efficiency (and hence the related mpg) will be higher than the standard off the shelf car. Another huge advantage is the weight savings of the drive train of this unit over the "standard" one.

By the way, weight savings are not inconsistent with safety rating, as far as the frame, interior safety devices, etc. Another advantage of this particular steam generator design that I see is in its low volume. This means that safety features can be (or already are) set up to stop fuel flow, stop water supply to steam generator, and even vent the small quantity of live steam available in the steam generator in the event of a crash (a high g event).

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/21/2013 9:45 AM

Hmm...I will wait and observe it in action before I jump on the bandwagon. I would (if I had surplus money) support the research.

Drew K

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cairns, Qld, Australia
Posts: 968
Good Answers: 65
#23
In reply to #21

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/22/2013 6:20 AM

An additional advantage of the Rankine cycle is that part load efficiencies are good and efficiency holds up well even when component efficiencies drop.

If a monotube boiler is used and high temp/press used (especially supercritical cycle), excellent efficiencies can be obtained.

The small volume of water in a monotube boiler gives quicker start and reduces danger in the event of a crash as there is not much steam in the system to vent.

Has possibilities.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Aggieland, Texas
Posts: 722
Good Answers: 8
#19
In reply to #17

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 3:59 PM

Boy, I sure hope it takes off. I'm so convinced that it is going to take off that I bought a couple hundred shares of stock in it. I wish I could buy a couple blocks of shares.

Here's what I envision could happen. Have one of these units at home running off natural gas (maybe in a fireproof enclosure). It powers a generator for your home. Also, either by electrical means or a hydraulic motor, it powers a compressor to compress natural gas for your car or pickup. This would really be great. The grid would act as the "storage" or "battery" for the electrical power. There wouldn't be any need to sell power back to the power company because they only pay you back about a third of what they charge you for their power.

This could be used for the next 20 years or until a more economical source of power is developed. I can't see the down side to this engine. Especially, when using it as a stationary power supply.

Have some fun today,

PAPADOC

RMFR

It's not who said something, it's what's said that counts.

Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancleave, Ms about 30 miles inland from Biloxi and the coast
Posts: 3197
Good Answers: 106
#20

Re: Are Steam Cars Poised for an Epic Comeback?

02/19/2013 5:53 PM

I'm not too sure of the practicability of steam cars, but it would be great for trucks.

__________________
Mr.Ron from South Ms.
Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 23 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

129CBRider (1); Anonymous Hero (1); Drew K (4); James Stewart (3); Jimh77 (1); Johny451 (1); Kris (2); PAPADOC (2); ronseto (1); sceptic (1); SolarEagle (6)

Previous in Blog: Quantum Uncertainty Principle on Objects Large Enough to be Seen with the Naked Eye   Next in Blog: Paintballs To Deflect The Next Meteor

Advertisement