Bachelor’s Degree Cost and Benefits

This, I think, is simply a skewed analysis.

First, the economy is in an abnormal state and while the U3 (officially reported unemployment rate) looks somewhat promising, the U6 unemployment rate shows an even slower rate of employment recovery.

Under such conditions it is not as meaningful to draw conclusions of the labor force and its needs until it normalizes, which is still many years away.

In addition to that, the interest rates have been artificially suppressed for a long time. This invites inflation and we are already seeing this in select segments of the economy. Tuition costs are simply trying to compensate to the cost of doing business. College enrollment rates have also been on a continuos upswing despite the economic changes and there are simply more applicants than ever, which also plays a part in market prices for tuition. That is, if there is no shortage of customers/demand, then there is no pressure to reduce prices. This is simply classic supply and demand.

Second, if you are looking for a career such as engineering or other professional careers, a B.S. is essentially mandatory under normal employment conditions. Under current conditions new graduates are finding an increasingly more competitive job market due to fewer and fewer job openings.

This means that the applicants that are snagging those limited jobs are the ones standing above their peers both in character and academic credentials.

Third, it takes about 4 years to complete a college degree. In that amount of time I am expecting the employment situation to change. In other words, the employment situation is fluid and dynamic and making long term decisions on short term economic data is fraught with peril.

The unfortunate truth here is that we live in a different world since the "Great Recession" and that impacts the analysis process, which I contend The Atlantic used incorrectly.

So we should starve for a few years rather than look at the data we have?

The folks that expected the employment situation to turn around iin 4 years in 2008 and 2009 are apparently out of the workforce according to U-6.

My point is that it is more than supply and demand, it is an inelastic supply, and that people who want to get into advanced manufacturing can do so in short time and with minimum need for student loans. folks who want to dwell permanently as dependents in their parents pbasements should gget that 4 year degree in 6 years (typically) using student loans. (sarcasm font please).

We do live in a different world since the great recession,. Thats what the U-6 rate is telling us. Your analysis should embrace the current situation, rather than exempt it from critical thinking.

Milo.

You wrote, "So we should starve for a few years rather than look at the data we have?"

No, you have to take the best work you can get. Sometimes that means accepting something less than your goal, but that is the nature of moving up. You must start somewhere.

You wrote, "My point is that it is more than supply and demand, it is an inelastic supply, and that people who want to get into advanced manufacturing can do so in short time and with minimum need for student loans."

The key words there are "people who want to get into advanced manufacturing." Now, if that is your passion in life, this field is in a great position as demand is higher than supply.

If your passion lies elsewhere it may not be a good choice for everyone.

I am a big proponent of not using student loans as a mechanism to get into college.

You wrote, "Your analysis should embrace the current situation, rather than exempt it from critical thinking."

This is where we differ. Making long term plans based on relatively short term trends is wrong. A typical career will span three or four decades. Recessions typically last a few years.

Now, this particular recession is different in that it was caused by government mismanagement and prolonged by poor judgement by government. However, I really do not want to dive into the political causes and ramifications of this current economy. I feel that the economic situation has a better than even chance of reversing (or more precisely rebounding) within the next four years on its own accord, so this is not the "new normal" as a few Chicken Littles have opined.

In the end, one must do what their passion is if they want to excel in life. For example, if your passion is to be a doctor or an engineer, making a career in law enforcement will probably not inspire you to do your best work nor would you find it as rewarding if it is not your cup of tea. People tend to do their best work when it is something that they are truly passionate about.

On the flip side, taking a job that is not aligned with something that is exactly what you want can often motivate you to work harder to be what you want and get there.

I gave Anonymous Hero a GA for that, as it all rings so true. One thing that has changed since I made the choice of working rather than completing a degree (I did go back and take many courses related to my field of work), is the motivation of large companies. When I started out, you could join a large corporation and stay for many many years and work your way up the chain. Today that's less likely to happen due to the constant "reorganization/outsourcing/layoffs, and the company's dedication to the stock market rather than the employees. Yes getting into the field you really want to make your career, is important, but remember, you will never start at the top! Get in, work hard, watch for opportunities, take them! You always have to do the analysis based on your best information of today's economic trends, the growth trends of the field your are choosing, and your own means.

And how many of these degrees are in subjects or majors such as art literature, philosophy, geography, etc which are either overloaded with applicants or dead-end career choices chosen because they seemed like fun or an easy way to get a degree?

You got to do what you love but still have an eye for getting a job at the end. A worthless degree is not going to be of help and could even hinder your employment if local employment regulations (for example) state your prospective employer has to pay you what your worth and so hires a less qualified individual better suited to the job.

Majority of degrees are in the BSBA category. It really doesn't matter what your degree is in for most careers that don't require specialization but how well you can sell yourself to an employer.

It gets harder the older you get. I received my BSBA in my 40's, then unemployment shot way up and am still stuck in the same job.

Education is important, however good planning to get one would be in order. Usually the local junior college is transferable to a nearby University, I'd recommend that route.

I went online for my degree. It is convenient, you can work around your job and it is supposed to be better education wise because students are required to participate and contribute in class, no sitting in the back of the room and not saying anything. Most of your online classes also have an actual classroom equivalent that you can attend as well.

Online courses are expensive, I paid $485 unit in 2003 through 2006, that's how long it took me to complete my degree because I didn't take time off for summer and worked my job with overtime.

The cost? I had to walk away from my home on a short sale because I couldn't afford the student loans and the mortgage. I'm still debating whether or not my educational investment was worth it because I really haven't seen any return on my investment.

One thing I did learn, that what I was being taught in class, most of it I had already known just from my life time experiences.

I've always thought you should consider the worth of education over a lifetime, and that it is not always the course of study chosen that affects job prospects, but what the individual is able to do with what was learned. I am bothered by the developing attitude that education should be only a means to employment without consideration of all the other knowledge that makes one a good citizen and well rounded person who is able to understand the world they live in.

However, I did pretty much as you suggest, although online classes were not an option then. I got an A.A.S. in an engineering discipline, then a job that would help pay for a bachelors in Engineering. However, I didn't do it just to get a job, but because I wanted to be an Engineer. I'm pretty certain that if I had wanted to be something else, but took the path I did just because it meant employment I'd be pretty unhappy right now.

You wrote, "...but what the individual is able to do with what was learned."

I always felt that the most valuable thing you learn in college is how to learn.

I totally agree. One of my jobs in the past was to introduce new engineers into aerospace. The total lack of knowledge was astounding from new graduates. Engineering is a constant learning process and basically requires study of new methods. it appeared that new engineers are reluctant to "buck the system" and had a lack of imagination.

I have to agree with you........

It interesting, I had some very good professors that I learned quite a bit from.

But one of the worst instrutors I had was one of the best I had to learn how to learn on my own.

He would spend a whole lab (2-3 hours) showing you the preceedure to solve a problem on the chalk board, reading from his (was looked like a 20 year old note book) only about 15 minutes left in class, he would be searching what his equations are not working out, onlyh to saying about 1 minute before the class ending to 'Forget what I just did"..........

He really should update his old notebook....... I think he did that every semester...... and in most of the classes he taught.....

But what it did teach me which served me well is, "I am on my own".

It's not just getting a bachelors degree. It's getting one that is relevant and in demand................

Look at all of the BA's grad's that have degrees to be nothing more than a $28,000/yr social worker........ I realize that this administration will be needing these type of people in the future........ but the pay will not improve.

almost as bad as philosophy. I know of (3) people that has these............. Without getting philosophical..... these people do not understand why they can't get a job in their field.....

I can't either........ ;)

How many people actually believe in statistics? I don't. Statistics are used to slant opinions one way or another. They can only be taken with a grain of salt, if at all. Statistics are next to impossible to check as we don't know how the data was collected. Those who quote statistics, massage the data to suit their purpose. Anyone who blindly accepts a statistic, is just plain naive.

How about empirical information, Do you believe in that?

Anyone who blindly accepts a statistic, is just plain naive.

Well, good solid statiusc should reference their data....

Statistics should only be looked upon as a tool,......... nothing more.

Like a hammer, just because you have a hammer, does not mean you can built a house. It just a tool in your tool box.

Very true, but who's going to read through the myriads of references? Statistics can be a tool, but too many people accept statistics as gospel. When the president claims unemployment is down so-and-so %, can we believe it? Not without a lot of digging; something that can take a very long time to research and if we do happen to get to the truth, the statistic has changed to something else. It's just not feasible to check everything, but we cannot just accept it blindly. Those who quote statistics, have a large backup of people who manipulate the facts. It's not possible for the average American to know the truth.

but who's going to read through the myriads of references?

The people that use the statistics will, its reference material.

A good example, is when you put up a business plan on a new business, you need solid quantifiable evidents when you go to get financing for the business. especially when you have very little to hang your hat on.

And depending on what you are looking for, it is feasible.