Future Energy Sources 3.4 Direct Combustion of Plant Matter

Wood as fuel has proved to be disaster in India. Just one city Delhi destroyed the entire forest of MP state of India and it has caused serious environmental shock and almost zero rain effect. This also happened in Ethiopia for the entire country to become dry for more than 10 years with almost zero rain.

Do not advocate for something which is known to cause disaster. USA soon will be pushing Alaska to melt due to removal of forest for paper, Malaysia is already destroying its oldest forests. We already know lots of problem in Australia. Any such advocacy is to be taken with pinch of salt.

I am not telling that using wood out right is bad, but that is often waste wood used by poor in small quantity is what now permitted in India. Cutting green tree is crime punishable with jail term and fine.

Hello Shyam. So true and so sad of a thing to destroy the forest and climate as you describe. This is not a new problem, unfortunately. Archaeologists have concluded that a civil war on Easter Island hundreds of years ago included the cutting of the forests there for weapons and defenses, with the result of an ecological disaster and subsequent massive loss of life. I have read that in the West Indies, such as Jamaica, a law over two centuries old linked excessive cutting of the forests with loss of rainfall.

As one popular folk song writer about 40 years ago put it: "When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?"

--John M

What about algae, cultivated in conjunction w/co² produced from say coal fired generation? See wikipedia yield table. As you say converting food to energy, is not a solution. Raising efficiency for the existing systems is, a start.

Yes, anything you cultivate and use them is fine. Algae is best suited for bio fertilizer and per for other applications as suggested here. Do not burn that is not cultivated by you. Purchasing a forest is not cultivating a forest so do not burn something that is natural out there or planted by some one else for green earth. If people have brain and use things properly then fine. I am not sure about it. People may burn lots of fuel to take trip to moon just because one has money. It is only a way to tell others that I am special and all others are @#$%^&. I think you know that language.

I am currently working on a project to reclaim derelict and marginal farmland in Eastern Canada, for production of switchgrass, to be pelletized for stove and furnace fuel. It's perennial, high yield, resilient and low maintenance. It can also be used large scale for power generation, to produce cellulosic ethanol and for bale construction. Check out www.reap-canada.com for more switchgrass info and http://greenfire.pelletstove.com/2005_Europa75_greenfire.pdf for an example of current pellet stove technology.

Also, check out the Mayon turbo stove on the REAP-Canada site. It is unrelated to switchgrass, but has promising third world application.

India was a wood, wood powder and cow dung consuming country and getting rid of all that is seen as very good change for billion people to experience. On small scale everything looks green. However it was a disaster averted in time in India.

Hi Garthh

• What about algae, cultivated in conjunction w/co² produced from say coal fired generation?

That was discussed in another thread. This thread is meant to look at the production of materials that can be grown in normal or relatively close to normal agricultural practices and produce an energy crop.

The algae cultivation is however the best yield on a pure area basin and I believe will be one of the technologies that is used as an energy source in the not too distant future.

Hi Shyam,

You are absolutely correct and currently we are chopping down trees far faster than they are being replaced and it is a very serious problem worldwide that needs to be urgently addressed.

If we were to go down the path of a so called "energy crop" it needs to be done in a sustainable way and does not mean just going out and chopping down all the forests for use as fuel or anything else for that matter.

Australia has had a bad reputation for destroying forests, but there was a scheme in Queensland that only cut down mature trees that were fundamentally carbon neutral. Unfortunately the greens decided to wreck the project and managed to get it shut down and as a result a sustainable use of forests was lost. It's a classic example of a short minded response to a complex problem that should have been expanded rather than shut down.

Here

"The Greens" stopped the burning of agricultural waste [ mostly orchard & vineyard clippings ], a good thing for the air.

Somehow they scraps can't be economically transported to the local co-gens, in a form that's useful.

This leads to clandestine accidents, where the piles are torched by arsonists, since disposal is a new expense for the farmers.

The situation increases the already formidable economic pressures [ on farmers ] & will probably cause more farmland to be converted to subdivisions.

Planning has to be comprehensive, not just how will this affect me & my direct neighbors, how will this affect my town, county, region, state, country, planet......

Some of the solutions exist & have been proven, it's up to all of us to make them politically & economically attractive.

Positive incremental change!

(Picture curtsey

http://www.african-safari-journals.com/image-files/orangutan-pictures.jpg )

Dear Mark

Well you know everything very well. I am impressed. I have seen the damage done in Malaysia in big way for the Teak that almost destryed the habitat of Orangutan. We some how feel the earth is only for us and for those living now.

Hi Shyam,

• We some how feel the earth is only for us and for those living now.

Oh how true you are. There is a small minority of people that see the world as nothing but a tool to create personnel gain and wealth.

Each year in Indonesia, what can only be described as environmental vandals, slash and burn so much tropical rain forest that the smoke and pollution created by it reaches Australia and severely impacts the air quality in neighboring countries.

The more I read and see the more I believe many of the problems we are now facing are the result of the short sighted, self promoting, greed of a small minority that are making the decisions. Unfortunately, the sociopolitical system not only allows such behavior but rewards and promotes the people responsible for such vandalism.

We are all human beings and all live on the same chunk of rock called Earth. No matter what we do our actions effect not only every other human being but all the flora and fauna on Earth and it's high time we started holding people responsible for their actions.

Some people first show a glorified picture to people of their actions and promise too many things to the government to have cheap access to much greater resources than others can ever tough. Once they become rich and know their death is sure thy think of burning the money in life time so behave worst than a mad man. Such people have right to burn what ever they have but forget that all that they have has come from other's share and they were only caretakers. They don't use brain and become a drunken devil on the destruction path with stamped permit from the governments to do so freely as their wish. Poor civilized people watch all this horror.

In India, then a law was inacted. You can plant as many trees you wish, but you can not cut even one green tree. This was a very good form of law. It did prevent lots of green tree cutting but government itself can cut as many trees they want to cut so they do all harm now, as law is not binding on those working for government. It take decades to plant trees across roads and each time roads are broaden, trees are gone across 3000 km run.

Germany is a very populous country but they have managed their forests very well. Forests for biomass cultivation are a wonderful idea. They need to be managed well though. Many trees in Europe and elsewhere have been coppiced (pruned) annually for decades. Their branches cut up and used for fireplaces. This is the most efficient way ,I know, of producing biomass, with the possible exception of switchgrass, canary reed, and algae etc. Salix or willow is currently grown in Northern Europe for pellet production.

Drought resistant grasses can be grown in many areas not used for agriculture. Some reeds can be grown in saltwater marshes, peat can be harvested periodically, Tree prunings can be used, rather than burned as waste. We recently wasted hundreds of thousands of tons of wood in the Midwest, after the ice storms.

I would like to see laws requiring the productive use of all waste possible. Whether as methane, solid fuel, fertilizer, mulch, products or whatever. Waste Management Corporation has an good record of using methane from landfills etc. The issue of wasteful packaging should also be addressed. At least it should not be a threat to the environment.

India by policies have lot for forest and for people living near forests, but actual picture is grim and needs continuous over hauling. Depleting forests have caused low rain in many areas and some places already turned into desert.

Sounds like the governmental agencies are inept, inefficient, corrupt, underfunded etc. Poor people will do what they perceive is in their self interest to survive. They must be educated and controlled, to preserve the environment that supports their existence. India has many brilliant minds. What is wrong with the governmental institutions?

India can be a garden of biofuels and beauty, while still producing plenty of food. Jatropha, sugar cane, etc. come to mind. India will need lots of fuel for those Tato Nanos.

Environmental degradation is no longer a territory of a country but a real problem of the entire earth and human civilization. If earth has to find its way to recover to its normal state and perhaps by wiping out the current civilization is one option it can follow. If we are friendly to earth and help in healing its problems then it will let us live longer hear

I am not sure if this greedy civilization will ever stop extracting resources beyond limits and also stop burning resources for fun. This civilization is actually uncivilized than many ways in comparison with those were simple and were here for long. Few mad people are so crazy that they are pushing the entire earth to its limits. Good brains supposed to help in sustaining the earth but we hardly see their impact.

I have said this in more threads that I can remember but nonetheless it is still a valid observation.

When I started as a cadet engineer back in the 1970s all the companies that had any sort of engineering background were run from bottom to top by engineers that had come up through the ranks. The MD of the company I started with specifically said that I and the other 3 cadet engineers they had taken on over the previous three years were expected to do just that and over our careers move up through the ranks to managerial positions.

Unfortunately he retired about 2 years after I started and instead of being replaced from the ranks of manager engineers the position was filled by and externally sourced graduate manager who was primarily and accountant and had zilch engineering experience or comprehension of the problems faced by engineers.

Needless to say things went down hill from then on and the rot soon set in as more and more short term profit watching amoeba brained graduate managers that only looked at things from a purely account driven basis replaced engineering managers.

I did ultimately make it into management but by that time things had gotten so bad and the things that I was expected to do were not only wrong from an engineering standpoint but from my point of view immoral. Ultimately I found it impossible to do what was expected of me so we parted ways. By the way I feel somewhat vindicated as the company, while still in existence, is a mere shadow of its former self.

Unfortunately this seems to be a world wide trend and we are basing way too many decisions on short term profits rather than looking at the problems as a whole and developing ling term sustainable answers to the problems we face.

It's time engineers the world over stood up to these amoeba brained, short term profit driven, bullies that are only out to feather their own nests and ran then out of town. Unless we start looking at problems from a long term global basis we have no chance of reversing the global warming trend in a way that is not deleterious to the majority of Earth's people. Of course the managers will make sure their OK wile the rest of us go without food and loose our homes to rising sea levels.

Just my opinion for what it's worth.