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Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

Posted January 23, 2018 9:00 AM by dstrohl
Pathfinder Tags: autonomous cars Ford future

On January 9, Ford CEO Jim Hackett–who spent two decades in executive positions with office furniture giant Steelcase–presented the keynote address at this year’s CES in Las Vegas. In an article previewing his speech, Hackett vilified the automobile, calling it “the ultimate disruptor to humans’ lives and our civic way of life.”

In his view of a future utopia, automobiles are replaced by “mobility solutions,” reclaiming city streets and returning parking lots to greenspace and farmer’s markets. The “sharing economy,” in which no one really owns transportation, factors heavily into his vision. Need to get from Point A to Point B? Just call up an autonomous pod–presumably maintained properly by someone else–for the journey.

Absent from his vision, and perhaps from his world view, is the fact that some of us still love cars and have a passion for driving.

Hemmings is a bit pessimistic on the on the autonomous car evolution. What say you?

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#1

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/23/2018 9:41 AM

Absent from his vision, and perhaps from his world view, is the fact that some of us still love cars and have a passion for driving.

Too many people that live in a big city and only ride the subway decide what the rest of us need. I'm with Hemmings...they will have to pull my cold dead fingers off of my steering wheel.

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#5
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 2:11 AM

"the fact that some of us still love cars and have a passion for driving"

Fine, should not be at others expense, nor the environment. Get an EV, & some solar panels.

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#8
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 8:37 AM

Get an EV, & some solar panels

Just because you do not see the environmental waste and contamination created by the production of solar panels and it ancillary support equipment does not mean it doesn't exists. And with this administration that intends on putting a 30% tariff on solar panels imparted,... you may see it soon enough.

And as far as supplying your EV with electricity created with wind power. How environmental safe wind energy is... its only on paper, and we'll be seeing more of this as they age and are not that old.

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#10
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 9:16 AM

It will take quite a while to to generate the equivalent of 260,000 barrels of oil that leaked from the Exxon Valdez in Alaska etc, etc.

The 30% tariff is a bad really bad joke. Price goes up, consumption goes down. You don't get much in the way of an education in business from Wharton, apparently, especially if you don't study.

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#11
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 9:42 AM

I agree with that 30% tariff also.. btw, the first year its 30% tariff, and every year following its reduced until its gone.

I believe it's to get our domestic solar panel industry to catch up,.. which is a the actually joke, because, the industry received billions of low interest unsecured loans and grant money from the previous administration for development only for the businesses after receiving these monies, than made large political donations to a political party and then to declare bankruptcies. And then selling off the assets to China for pennies on the dollar,... so the technically, the United States government subsidized a foreign power own domestic solar development.

The Exxon Valdez is one incident,... its like comparing an airliner crash with 180 deaths to a car accident with 3.

You have to consider, "Just installing the foundation of a single offshore turbine can consume 18,857 barrels of marine fuel during construction, according to calculations published by Forbes Wednesday. Offshore wind farms often have over 100 wind turbines, meaning that building them requires almost 2 million barrels of fuel just to power the ships involved in construction."

more info here...

And to operate, here's an example from my earlier link...

Now this happened in Scotland...

“In another incident in November 2011, 1,000 litres of oil leaked from a turbine at the Clyde wind farm in Abington, Lanarkshire, resulting in an emergency clean-up operation.”

…..

“People living near Whitelee, which has 215 turbines, complained of severe vomiting and diarrhoea with water samples showing high readings of E. Coli and other coliform bacteria.”

Multiple 1,000 liters by the growing number of turbines that are leaking, as well as new ones being built. and your complaint about wind energy should be the same as the Exxon Valdez incident.

Yes, I realize there are other shipping incidents such as pipelines leaks...

Not to mentioned the immediate health issues...

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#12
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 10:16 AM

I did read your link.

And I guess that depending on whose analysis you read/choose to believe, those tariffs will kill more jobs than they create.

We're going to see more wind farms in the future and hopefully they will become better for the environment.

And, I guess we're stuck with the punitive tariffs, for now too.

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#14
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 10:37 AM

And, I guess we're stuck with the punitive tariffs, for now too.

unless there's something else to this, I agree,... we have to have trade. And I'm disappointed about those tariffs...

One thing about the wind farms... is that they are pretty noisy... but the owners of the land do get like 4-5 thousand more or less annual rent for each one for the land they sit on.

And in this area, we have a manufacturer of the wind generator structures, they have a couple of trucks going out daily. Yes, its great for the economy.

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#15
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 11:54 AM

Two things:

“People living near Whitelee, which has 215 turbines, complained of severe vomiting and diarrhoea with water samples showing high readings of E. Coli and other coliform bacteria.”

I'm curious how wind farms can be the cause of the above problem of E. Coli, etc.

I haven't bothered to pursue the answer, I'll trust your report.

Second, our place in Minn. is very close to a wind farm. Our small town gets their power from a dedicated wind turbine most of the time. Unless you live directly under one, I can't see how noise can possibly be a problem. Even standing at the base, they just aren't loud enough to disturb even the lightest sleeper.

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#17
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 12:03 PM

I'm curious how wind farms can be the cause of the above problem of E. Coli, etc.

I don't know... bird kills???? they should stop licking the ground by the wind mills

In an area in Wisconsin, (Pipe, Wisconsin, Near the southeast side of Lake Winnebago) they are complaining about headaches...

But a lot of them are complaining about the farmers that least the land to the power company, and complain what bad neighbors they are... maybe they should hav moved there.

They also complained about the noise. I was passing through there about 10:30 at night and I stopped by one that was about 300 feet from the road, shut my car off and opened the window,.... surprising it did make a screeching type of sound like an old water pump windmill, only louder. This I think is a maintenance issue (actually a lack of).

As far as bird kills from then,... yes, it happens

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#19
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 12:14 PM

https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/17602/3/%282017%29%20RSNSW%20Speech-links.pdf

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#23
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 2:39 PM

My nephew Tommy is an software engineer at epic systems in Verona, he said he hardly notices the turbines.

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#24
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 2:53 PM

I don';t disagree with that... The area I talked about around Pipe, Wisconsin, is the only problem I noticed... the other turbines in other places, were too far off the road.

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#18
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 12:10 PM

"The 30% tariff is a bad really bad joke. Price goes up, consumption goes down."

& then them furriners gunna put retaliatory tariffs on our maple syrup & Detroit iron -

hang on to your hats!

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#20
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 12:30 PM

yes, its bitter... but there may be more to this that we aren't aware of. Maybe creating a negotiating chip on the next talk with the Chinese.

There's a new sheriff in town that against all odds and lame predictions, appears to be doing pretty good.

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#21
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 12:42 PM

It's not the lame predictions that worry me.

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#22
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 12:45 PM

no, as the past year as shown that talking point has basically been proved wrong. And when it has, there's another one that gets developed... to be proved wrong... And when it has, there's another one that gets developed... to be proved wrong... And when it has, there's another one that gets developed... to be proved wrong... And when it has, there's another one that gets developed... to be proved wrong... And when it has, there's another one that gets developed... to be proved wrong...

get my point.

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#29
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 7:11 PM

Nope

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#30
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 10:34 PM

Too bad...

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#31
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 10:54 PM

I'd be suspect of any decisions made by a man who was described as," the dumbest goddam student I ever had” by Professor William T. Kelley who taught Marketing at Wharton School of Business and Finance, University of Pennsylvania, for 31 years, and tried to teach Trump. Kelley said, "Trump came to Wharton thinking he already knew everything."

I'll reserve judgment on his luck, but not his character.

The stock market has been rising steadily since 2009.

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#32
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 12:00 AM

Easy lyn,... we don’t want you to blow a gasket... again.

at least the employment numbers are in manufacturing and not part time service jobs... (by that I mean behind a microphone saying,... “would you like fries with that”) like the last administrations employment numbers...

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#35
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 10:13 AM

How does that saying about being entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts?

Donald Trump Jobs: Here Are the Facts Behind His Claim | Fortune

And, the fact that that many jobs have been added since Trump took office is about par for the course with the last few years of steady economic growth.

For comparison, Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers show that about 1,246,000 jobs were created during the same months (February to July) under President Obama last year. The last real drop in the job creation rate was under the recession.

“Even if Trump had done something, it probably wouldn't be showing up in the numbers yet,” Hunt said. Because of this lag, any changes we might see now are either part of the normal growth rate or the result of actions taken during Obama’s tenure.

Finally, Ford may just be a visionary. With our infrastructure falling apart and privatization staring us in the face, mass transit may be the only option for some who can't afford the "net neutrality" like debacle of having to rent something we already paid for.

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#38
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 10:42 AM

As much as you would like to think, not all jobs are alike, Its the types of jobs being adding now ...

sure you had part-time service jobs counting as a job that pays minimum wage... but now you have manufacturing skilled labor type jobs coming back, that pays better, and are also full time...

The problem I see, after the work force have been fed to settle for less, with the economy heating up, the same workforce now has to resurrected the skills required.

The problem I see is,... getting qualified people. and what actually drive the economy isn't jobs,,... Its consumer confidence,... that is something we did not have in the last administration

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#52
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

02/13/2018 5:30 AM

Had a hunch there was more to be more to it... after the Trump tariffs, China annouced they are manufacturing the panels domestically.

Now we’ll hear about the toxic waste with solar panel manufacturing.

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#50
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

02/13/2018 2:07 AM

You obviously don’t know much about solar panel for production. China set out to do two things - corner the market on the special raw materials and discount the price. Their objective was to destroy the USA production of solar panels. So if you really like them you’ll appreciate the tariff

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#7
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 8:24 AM

You have the same people that wants passenger rail through out the country like what the Europeans and the Japanese have. Not realizing, because they live in a bubble, that there are vast distances between cities, and the rail, based on the current usage of the passenger rail we have now,.. it isn't sustainable.

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#25
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 3:55 PM

And just what does common-sense have to do with it?

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#27
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 4:13 PM

hey... don't bring common sense into it... the way it is, there's enough people confused already.

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#13
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 10:19 AM

Rixter : could you provide information as to where exactly the subway system is in Grand Rapids Michigan.

I could not locate a system in the city where James Patrick lives.

The only subway I could find currently has a special on a foot long.

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#33
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 8:51 AM

OK, for "subway" substitute "public transportation".

The point is that I guess I am a little surprised that the CEO of a major car company seems to consider the automobile as just another boring appliance to get someone from point A to point B. A lot of people still have a special relationship with their automobiles, a feeling that the car is an extension of themselves. It doesn't sound like he is trying to sell a Ford to these people.

JMHO...

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#34
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 9:47 AM

Problem is, Rix, that that "special relationship with their automobiles" threatens the very survival of mankind -

Seriously.

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#36
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 10:23 AM

That's what you believe. Others may beg to differ. Climate change has been a constant on this Earth of ours.

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#37
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 10:30 AM

It's about AIR POLLUTION, not climate change. Two completely different problems. We CAN do something about AIR POLLUTION.

In case you missed it:

Air Quality Top Public Health Threat: 2018 Environmental Performance Index

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#40
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 1:04 PM

And if you missed it, the United States actually scored very high on air quality. Jeepers. Get a grip.

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#42
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 1:31 PM

I guess it depends on your perspective and what "very highly" means to you.

Some people in power today have "very High" opinions of themselves. It's all in their mind, I guess.

From the report:

"The U.S. takes 27th place in the 2018 EPI, with strong scores on some issues, such as sanitation and air quality, but weak performance on deforestation and GHG emissions. This ranking puts the U.S. near the back of the industrialized nations, behind France (2nd), the U.K. (6th), Germany (13th), Italy (16th), Japan (20th) and Canada (25th)."

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#39
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 12:28 PM

If what you are saying is true, that we are seeing natural change, that is very bad news.

That means that the AGW due to mans CO2 emissions will be ON TOP OF your 'natural GW', thus will be magnified. Then, on top of THAT, there is so much positive feedback that we have switched on - ice caps melting to show much darker (hence more absorbent) water below, and winter snows in eg Scandinavia being for much shorter periods than the usual full winter.

Then, there is the CH4 from melting permafrost (Siberias 'methane volcanoes) and methane eruptions from the sea floor.

Sell your beachfront.

Admin: Modified Post: Removed bad language

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#41
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 1:07 PM

Oh yeah, positive feedback. We've been hearing that for years now. The old hockey stick.

You what is really going on, is that there is a LOT more negative feedback that has been omitted (either intentionally or not) from the models.

Just wait and see. Mother Nature is much better at this than we are.

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#43
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/25/2018 2:22 PM

I see....

Now how can I make a buck off of this go around? hummm....

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#45
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/26/2018 2:22 AM

"wait and see. Mother Nature is much better at this than we are."

Yeah. Just ask the dinosaurs.

And the Easter Islanders.

And the Maya

and

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#46
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/26/2018 7:53 AM

There are people that just can't accept that the humans may not be part of the earths future.

And I believe that was Robins point of;

Just wait and see. Mother Nature is much better at this than we are.

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#48
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/28/2018 8:10 AM

"There are people that just can't accept that the humans may not be part of the earths future"

I don't know anybody who has been resigned to that longer than I.

You may have seen where some naughty words were removed from my earlier post; (Past tense of the verb to copulate)planet.org.

A domain name I bought over a decade ago -

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#49
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/29/2018 7:46 AM

"There are people that just can't accept that the humans may not be part of the earths future"

I don't know anybody who has been resigned to that longer than I.

my post is not a resignation,...

only an observation of what happened in the past.

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#47
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/26/2018 11:48 PM

https://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/spirals/

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#44
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Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/26/2018 1:11 AM

How's that commercial go ? : You go through 3 boyfriends and 2 jobs, nothing can replace Brad, then liberty mutual calls and you break into your happy dance,,,

So much for special relationships

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#2

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/23/2018 10:40 AM

If real estate keeps going up people will want their cars to live in....nothing gives a feeling of freedom more than a car, except a motorcycle, it's not likely something that people would give up easily...if at all...

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#3

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/23/2018 12:07 PM

What else could we expect from a guy who spent 20 years building office furniture?

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#4

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 12:17 AM

I've been to CES a number of times years ago, twice as a speaker to a smaller group, when active noise control was in its infancy. Is it still held in Chicago too? It was a unique experience, unlike any other.

His "vision" may be valid in a hundred years, but not in our lifetimes and not everywhere. Brave New World anyone?

I can't imagine waiting for a bus/taxi/train/drone to go somewhere. People do it, but probably not many who come here. I'll put up with gas fumes and flat tires, thanks.

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#51
In reply to #4

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

02/13/2018 2:36 AM

Selected for D & E exhibition at CES - twice.

But very happy to use public transport whenever it’s available- knowing that the CO2 is minimised. Even being 10 tonnes / month CO2 negative from other activities.

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#6

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 8:16 AM

The decline in private road vehicle ownership is an inevitability given the immediate prospect of autonomous vehicles; it will no longer be absolutely necessary to licence drivers and for ownership to continue and an Autotaxi option will emerge.

A decline in the use of road vehicles will be next step after that:

"Two to beam up"? Oh, yes?

Well, remember these?

Better believe it!

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#16
In reply to #6

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 11:58 AM

Once given the taste of freedom . . . .

. . . . and we have to defend our freedoms from those who strive to take them away from us for the 'greater good'.

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#9

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 9:15 AM

Was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor?

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#26
In reply to #9

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 4:09 PM

I had forgotten that line.

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#28
In reply to #9

Re: Open Diff: Nothing is Over Until We Decide It Is

01/24/2018 4:21 PM

A recent Presidential candidate: "Well when I ran under heavy sniper fire, avoiding getting shot by using combat rolls, somersaults and cartwheels, just so I can witness the Germans signing the surrender papers aboard the USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay. I can tell you this,... it was nothing but a big ole nothing burger,... but with your help and... with a small donation of $1,000.00 (peanuts really, use your small bonus checks... I know you got one) and send it to my foundation... we can finish this fight... TOGETHER!"

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