Spring Stumper: Newsletter Challenge (March 2019)

Left alone, I'm a word with five letters. I’M RIGHT

I'm honest and fair, I'll admit. TO BE OPEN

Rearranged, (I'm of no) use to (trains). ABOUT, MOON STRAIN IF,

Once again, and I'm an overt place, warm and well lit. I REPEAT, IF MOON STRAIN IS GROWN ON A HYDROPONIC FARM?

What am I? MOON STRAIN a hybrid flower grown in the Niagara region

Moon strain is a plant from which cannabis is extracted. So, if it is not correct to be open minded about it, does that make the author a liar? So, is the above statement line by line a lie?

Answer a liar.

Left alone, I'm a word with five letters.

Judge

I'm honest and fair, I'll admit.

Judge

Rearranged, I'm of no use to trains.

No use at all...

Once again, and I'm an overt place, warm and well lit.

Courtroom

What am I?

Judge

Grith

..is right.. open and honest

...is girth ..of no use to trains..

.....is sanctuary..

Am I wrong?

Yes

Rearranged, I'm of no use to trains. liar <--> rail

Once again, and I'm an overt place, warm and well lit. liar <--> lair

Fake riddle...?

Money

Five letters - yes

Honest and fair - yes, money is honest and fair - everyone has a chance to get it

Rearrange money = make change from dollar bills and vice versa. And a train doesn't run on dollar bills or change.

Money is made in the mint or at the treasury. It's warm and well lit and the are is very open.

Money!

Rail-Road Track

Left alone, I'm a word with five letters:

Rails or Track

I'm honest and fair, I'll admit:

The rails will take anyone

Rearranged, I'm of no use to trains:

Liars

Once again, and I'm an overt place, warm and well lit:

Rails and Rails = Grand Central Station

What am I?

Rails

Left alone, I'm a word with five letters.

Diner Coach

or Diner Coach

I'm honest and fair, I'll admit.

coach

"Before we discuss what qualities and skill sets that make for a good coach, we ... with winning and losing, good sportsmanship, fair play, honesty, integrity, etc."

Rearranged, I'm of no use to trains

Coach Diner

Once again, and I'm an overt place, warm and well lit.

Diner Coach

What am I?

Diner Coach

__________________

thewildotter

1. grith(Noun) guaranteed security, sanctuary, safe conduct
2. grith(Noun) security, peace or protection guaranteed in particular instances in Old English law.
3. grith(Noun) a place of protection, a sanctuary

Origin: Late Old English grið, from Old Norse grið "domicile, home", in the plural with a meaning "truce, peace; sanctuary, asylum".

Anagrams for grith »

1. right
2. girth

If I'm left alone.. I honestly need fair sanctuary.. Isn't that right?

If I'm rearranged.. I have girth.. bad for a train.

Warm and well lit? not my coach, rail, liar, money.. yes.. my church

the moon flower perhaps.

Deadhead Nostalgia

JE said "Warm and well lit? not my coach, rail, liar, money.. yes.. my church"

"Diner coach" is more often warm and well lit relative to a church and is an expression more recently in widespread use than a grith as witnessed by the CR4 spell checker not recognizing grith. If I recall correctly, grith is something I had to look up when I was struggling to read Chaucer as it was originally written:

"With swerdë shall [he surely] dye;; He bad his preestes pees and grith, ..."

I suppose the archaic character of grith makes for a more challenging riddle even for the better riddle solvers, so I would not disqualify grith as an acceptable answer. I would point out, however, that "diner coach" is something typically warm and well lit even when not "left alone" and that churches are often NOT well lit for "mystery" and frugality and "not warm" also for frugality. I will grant that some "diner coach" operators run them cold to encourage the eaters to see to business and move on but as a frequent deadhead rail rider(multiple rail employee relatives so I usually traveled for free) in my youth the vast majority of diner coaches were always well lit and warm in contrast to the simple rider coaches. That is why I would pay the exorbitant prices for the dubious quality food so that I could spend a considerable portion of my trips in the more comfortable diner car hobnobbing with the wait staff. The diner coach was also usually a far more massive car making for a smoother ride.

Note also that rearranged does not necessarily refer to letters(anagrams) but more easily can be applied to the words "diner coach" magically producing something with a genuinely distinct meaning "coach diner" which refers to a tradition continuing today here in Austin TX in the restaurant Threadgills which is well known for being a venue where Janis Joplin and others made their early names. The riddle conjures up images of attempting to couple up Threadgills to the trains on a nearby track which would definitely be "bad for a train" even though Treadgills has curved, diamond creased wall coverings and diner coach seating. BTW Threadgills serves a fried chicken liver plate which is delicious and ample and reminds me of some less inspiring meals but similar in intent that I once picked at while riding in diner coaches.

So, for the midieval scholar grith is a good answer. For all of us(if I am not unique in this sense) nostalgic deadheads, diner coach is a better one. I never rode "The City of New Orleans, Monday morning rail" but it certainly is a mental image to which I can relate.

===========

thewildotter

Chaucer? From the quote provided? On that alone I'm out.

Dinner coach.. ok. I'll give you that.

However. The church's I remember have had warm lights and atmosphere. Maybe not typical, but they will admit you with fairness and honest intent. Or so they would like you to believe.

I have no experience eating in the diner coach.. and my Gramps retired from the Illinois central.. lived out his days in Mississippi.. where every church was hot as hades

Rail Relatives and Stained Glass

Ah ! Mississippi. Where a hot church is a frugal church. Frugal churches in the winter in VA, WV, MD, PA, NJ, NY from my youth were usually riding thermal mass and mostly unheated. In the summer they were uncooled or cooled only for weekly services. My grandpa and uncle worked on the B&O and my father worked on the Virginian and later the Norfolk & Western. It is neat that your grandfather worked on the Illinois Central. I bet a lot of rural churches near Chicago were barely heated in winter back then. Probably just enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing if they had pipes.

BTW, warm lights to me is synonymous with 2700K(yellowish), dim lighting. Many richer churches believed that ambient light through their stained glass provided the best inspirational atmosphere.

============ <rails

thewildotter

The biggest church I've ever been is in Manhattan. We were at the northwest corner of Central Park and we went a couple blocks north and west. The church is huge with incredible stained glass!

And, we saw it at night. I can only imagine what the stained glass looks like in the day!

Person Who Dines

Oh, and I had never heard dinner coach. Diner coach refers to the passengers who are eating. Diner: "someone who is ​eating a ​meal..." When the diners leave the diner coach they revert to being simple passengers.

==========Δ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊Δ==== < uncoupled diner coach on rail siding somewhere near the Chicago stockyards

thewildotter

I see now! Very good!

Thanks for that, and welcome to CR4.

I think you're making an assumption that a liar is not fair. A person can be fair, but also tell a lie, correct?

A lair can be warm and it can be well lit. A person's hiding place is a lair, so it can be warm and it can be well lit. Being a lair just means that it's a hidden place.

LIAR does not contain 5 letters, what am I not getting?

It's because he is a liar, all parts of the clue are untrue. So "liar" has only four letters, he lied when he said there were 5.

Some parts of the clue are true, or could be true. Look at the 2nd and 4th statement. Part of his statement is or could be true. I guess you could say that he's a liar, because part of his statement is a false, but this sure makes the riddle a lot harder to solve.

Just because an individual is a liar, does not mean that every thing they say is a lie. It's just that you can't necessarily believe what they say.

Then the answer is not limited to liar.

Why?

Based on the logic that everything a liar says is not a lie, then only one of the statements is untrue.

I never said, "everything a liar says is not a lie". It's just that because a person is a liar, does not mean that everything they say is a lie. If a liar made those statements, they could all be true, they could all be false, or some combinations of lies and truths. The only thing one knows if a liar is a making statements is that you can't automatically believe what they are saying is true.

Many riddles provide constraints to avoid such real world scenarios such as a man is on an island where the natives are from one of two tribes. One tribe always tells the truth, the other always lies. Those constraints allow the solver to use logic to figure the answer out based on the tribesmen's statements.

This riddle gives no bounds as to whether you can believe or not believe any or all of the statements. If the answer is 'I am a liar', that doesn't mean every statement has to be a lie, but if they all were, it would be consistent with the one making the statements being a liar.

I understand. Here's my take on this; I say that this riddle isn't a good one, becuase there are multiple answers. Any synonym of liar can be an answer, since the statement about five letters will be a lie and the other statements can or can't be answered honestly - he only needs to lie one time to be a liar.

Think about it.

All of these are correct:

• cheat
• con artist
• perjurer
• phony
• storyteller
• deceiver
• dissimulator
• equivocator
• fabricator
• fabulist
• falsifier
• fibber
• maligner
• misleader
• prevaricator
• promoter
• trickster
• deluder
• fabler
• false witness

The answer could be prevaricator. He lied about 5 letters. The other statements could be truth or lies.

"A liar" would be a solution for many if not nearly every "who am I" riddle, correct.

Think about it.

A liar would certainly lie about the number of letters in liar.

I've been having trouble with the answer and I think I know why.

1. Left alone, I'm a five letter word - if he's a liar, then liar is four letters not five - I'm okay with this.

2. I'm honest and fair, I'll admit - if he's a liar, then he is not honest, however a liar can be fair, can't he?

3. Rearranged, I'm no use to trains - rail is used by a train, so he's a liar. I'm okay with this.

4. Once again, and I'm an overt place, warm and well lit. A lair implies a hidden place, not overt, so he is a liar. Is a lair warm? If it is, then this is a true statement, not a lie. Can a lair be well lit? Yes it can, so it's possibly a true statement. Another problem statement.

Based on #2 and 4, the statement he made can be partially true, so does that make him a liar? Or is it because part of the statement is not true, then he is a liar.

This makes the riddle difficult to answer. Maybe a better riddle would be to take the true statements out of #2 and #4.

Just a thought...

I think this will help everyone understand my dilemna with this riddle. I'm going line by line, so please bear with me.

1. "Left alone, I'm a word with five letters." What if this line said four letters instead of five. It would be true (LIAR = 4 letters), BUT only a minimum of only one statement needs to be false for this person to be a liar.

2. "I'm honest and fair, I'll admit." Could be changed to say "I'm not honest ...". The statement would be true (LIAR is not honest and fair), BUT again, only one statement needs to be false for him to be a liar.

3. "Rearranged, I'm of no use to trains." Could be changed to say "... I'm of use to trains." The statement would be true (RAIL = of use to trains), BUT again, only one statement needs to be false for him to be a liar.

4. "Once again, and I'm an overt place, warm and well lit." Could be changed to say "... I'm not an overt ...", (LAIR = not an overt place ...), BUT again, only one statement needs to be false for him to be a liar.

So, one could create a similar riddle with statement 1 remaining the same and 2, 3 and 4 as above, or 2 remaining the same and 1, 3 and 4 as above, or 1 and 4 staying the same and 2 and 3 as above ,etc. Too many possible riddles for a similar idea.

What makes this riddle a poor one is that there are too many ways that one could write the riddle and there are too many answers for it. I believe a good riddle should have one answer, not so many, though I am no expert on riddles.

"What makes this riddle a poor one is that there are too many ways that one could write the riddle and there are too many answers for it. I believe a good riddle should have one answer, not so many, though I am no expert on riddles."

I agree 100%

Just a nit-pik. Personally I don't consider someone a liar if only one statement they make is a lie. If that were true, then would we not all be classified as liars? I think a liar is someone who lies often (but doesn't have to be over 50% of the time).

If the individual is a liar the only conclusion we can make is that none of the statements they make can be believed, but all, none, or some could be true.

There you go! Someone who you can't trust, because they've told you something untrue - however I'll add something to that.

1. If someone tells you a white lie that isn't memorable, then we classify them as normal and not a liar.

2. If someone tells you a white lie, but it is memorable, meaning it hurt you or you took action that resulted in pain, then they are a liar - in your eyes.

3. Many people tell stories that are unbelievable, but it's just for fun. You know, shop talk and great weekend stories (or about girlfriends, etc). These are acceptable and they aren't considered liars.

4. Then there are people who lie for no reason. Their lies may not harm us, but we can't believe them, because they lie just for the sake of it. We consider them liars.

5. Then there are people whose profession is associated with lies. Politicians, used car salesmen, attorneys, etc. It's prudent to place them all in the "liar" category based on their profession, even though they may not have lied to us.

I deal with people in the auto industry every day and the people I deal with are businessmen, but once a week or so, a the receptionist sends the phone call to a salesman (it's an old trick at dealers). Then the lies and stories come out - "he's not in, but I can help" or "he told me that you'd be calling and he wants me to help you".

I'm going to turn the tables a little with these two statements.

1. Car salesmen have the belief that every buyer is a liar. Why? Their trade in's are always good - it's a fact that the majority of people trade in their car when they are having or are anticipating problems. Also, people feel they need to "fabricate" the other dealers offer as a negotiating ploy. XXX Honda told me they'd sell me the car for $XYZ - when the real quote was much more.

2. Our law enforcement civic servants deal with liars multiple times every day. Think of the policeman who pulls you over for speeding. You know you were doing 40 mph in a 30 zone, but as soon as you see the lights turn on, you start thinking of an excuse.

The bad thing is that both sides (employee and customer) are scheming and telling lies, though I wouldn't necessarily call the customer (or person getting a ticket) a liar in general.

I too think that Liar is not and acceptable answer for this riddle.

It's tantamount to being called a jackass and responding with. "I know you are but what am I?"

not lying, not riddling, but speaking reverse man "logic".

I pronounce 'Grith' as the new real answer.

thank you very much

Girth it is!

Though most of us know girth as the width or circumference - particularly your midsection. Though I've heard the word used in relation to boats, but I'm not a boater.