Crossrail gets green light

One of the great mysteries is why the project stops at Shenfield, where existing 'metro' trains already occupy the 5 available sidings overnight, while there is an unused, usable area in which to berth and service the Crossrail trains at Chelmsford, a town with a significantly greater population from which to draw customers.

I have herd that in Los Angeles the local Gov put in a light rail system that is so modern that it stops for red lights instead of going under them.

Also the LA city leaders in their greater wisdom had one of the major freeways leading into the city center all tore up for about 5 years or so then would up putting in a Bus system instead of the light rail system that most people were expecting. Now they are talking about tearing up one of the side streets for the next five years and generally making transportation miserable for the natives all over again.

I bet the "Big Oil" people had a handle in that.

The present light rail in that city was interesting; I took my youngest one on an exploration of the system once. It has an LAX airport end that does not make it to the airport by two or three miles??? You ever wonder what those political johnnies are using for thinking equipment?

If it is screwed up, overly expensive, petty, lacking forethought, and a generally big uncoordinated mess, it is likely the environmental and special interest activist groups wanting each little interest addressed along the way. If it is well organized, penny pinching, brutal and heartless, then it would be big oil.

I wish they would do something like this in the US. Either a highspeed train from Washington to Dallas, Chicago to Dallas, Dallas to LA, LA to Seattle, etc. I'm really sick of planes.

During the great race for rail links in the middle of the 19th Century, legislation was enacted to prevent the rail companies from bringing their lines into the City of London, a central area with a defined boundary. That is why the main termini of Fenchurch Street, Bishopsgate (which was later partly demolished when Liverpool Street was established), Broad Street (now obliterated), Kings Cross, St. Pancras, Marylebone and Paddington all lie outside the City and in the case of the latter 4 north of the Marylebone Road. On the South side, Victoria, Waterloo, Cannon Street, Blackfriars and London Bridge are all outside the boundaries of the City. Piecemeal development ensured that crossing London by other means, like using the underground railways, became the norm; a trip from, say, the town of Chelmsford to Heathrow Airport [LHR] remains a bit of an ordeal as a consequence.

What Crossrail seeks to do is to provide additional cross-town capacity in the East-West direction. It won't necessarily be high speed (most of the lines are limited to 90mph; the metro lines with which they interact rather less) though it will certainly cut journey times relative to using current cross-town links.

There are a number of links being developed in a predominantly north-south direction. St. Albans to Gatwick Airport [LGW] can be done by using one train.

High speed links are already attractive, with a Kings Cross to Edinburgh time of around 3.5h city centre to city centre being a good competitor to air. The InterCity 125 branding referred to the high speed diesel services introduced in the 1970s was a brilliant marketing ploy. The 125 referred to 125mph. The later replacement electric trains are weakly branded 225, in deference to their 225kph capabilities.

Clearly you haven't been on an American train recently, 90 mph IS high speed for us.

Now, be fair, the last time I was on a train, it was the London -Paris shuttle through the channel tunnel (now there's a concept, a tunnel through chalk under the sea! I've driven through Mt Blanc, a solid granite mountain, and that tunnel leaks!) I remember sitting watching London buses overtake us nearly all the way to Dover.

Let me put it this way, a couple of years ago I took Amtrak from NYC to Albany, which is a 3 hr drive, maximum. It took six hours.

OK, Thats slow. What about price? A few years ago, a friend and I wanted to go to an exhibition in central London. Distance about 95 miles. We looked at the cost of going by train compared to car (at the time I had a Mustang, 20mpg) Including parking at £15 a day, the train would have cost £25 more for the pair of us. For one person it was marginal!

Albany to New York round trip is about $80. Driving a Civic it would be $35 for gas and $20 to $30 for parking, so I'd say its about even. The trains aren't expensive here I would say. That may be the problem, if they had more money they might do a better job.

How would they protect the Raptors, Kit Fox and Burrowing Owls. Imagine the EIS/EIR for that project. We would have to get rid of the military to pay for it. Though on the upside, there would be a huge demand for biologists, historian, archeologists, paleotologists, sociologist, etc...

Dallas to LA that is.

Come on now, the U.S. west coast had trolleys in every city of any size and let the oil, bus makers, and tire makers by them out to sell them gas, busses and tires that they then took the profits and ran the systems into bankruptcy.

Our mega monopoly train Co's have used more trees for wood railroad ties (that they still use) than any other industry. Where they haul huge amounts of freight. Last time I checked over twice the weight per car than Europe. Tracks abused like that make poor commuter rides. As a kid several times I thought the train was on half it's wheels rocking back and forth. Good thing I had my sea legs.

In short we don't have the infrastructure for commuter trains. Freight yes, Train stations for people have been moved to lower rent areas. Our culture has a negative train perspective(car = independence) and 90 miles per hour on our freight system-Can i watch?

We need a public transportation system, but I don't see it happening soon.

man that seemed negitive but half of planing is knowing where you start from.

Brad

It wasn't negative at all, it was the truth. Dead on as far as I'm concerned.

In Los Angeles there was a pretty good Electric Trolley system that covered Los Angeles to Santa Monica, to Long Beach. The tracks were laid close to residence areas where normal people could use it to go to work.

They killed that in favor of a Buss system that is unreliable and does not run all of the time, as the buses run in packs of three to four at once, costs more also. You have seen my vent above on the light rail they put in.

It was one of those classic moves where the politicians get lobbied and partied up by the Buss and Oil guys, the people loose again.

<I thought the train was on half it's wheels rocking back and forth>

Traditional North American practice is to stagger the rail joints in jointed track by half-a-rail each side, the down-side of which is that these weak places in the track cause body roll from side-to-side as the vehicle proceeds, as indicated in the above comment. The up-side is that it gives a stiffer line with less maintenance effort than using parallel joints, an important consideration where distances are great and maintenance effort diluted as a consequence. In places where local softwood timber is plentiful, there is no economic advantage to upgrading the sleepers/ties to something more substantial than the local ecology can provide. Softwood sleepers in particular are unsuited to the needs of high-speed rail track systems on account of their longevity and their low bulk modulus; they are too short-lived and 'springy' for use at high speed.

Of late, pan-European practice is to upgrade tracks to large-section continuous-welded flatbottom ('Vignoles') rail on pre-stressed concrete sleepers bedded in deep stone ballast or attached to concrete slabs. Travelling in a high-speed railway vehicle is a thing of great wonder. Of course, to do such a thing can only be justified by looking at future traffic potential, maintenance costs, operating costs, etc. North American countries are at a disadvantage in this respect compared to air travel.

Crossrail intends to use pre-existing route capacity on the surface sections either side of the central tunnel, and by definition cannot be considered a 'high-speed route' in this sense. While a package of alterations will be needed to accomodate routing, vehicle movements and servicing on the surface sections, the bulk of the value of the project is undoubtedly the provision of deep-level tunnels and interchanges underneath one of the largest and busiest cities in the World, and the costs of minimising the disruption in so doing.

My point exactly. The rails are now continuous welded, though I have not looked into how the handle thermal expansion.

Due to the hassle of rail travel I have not been on a "modern" American train for 30 years. I envy the Europe rail pass system every time I hear of friends using it.

Enjoy the ride may see you there, next year.

Brad