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Lucifer and The Lost Eden

Posted July 09, 2008 12:01 AM by Steve Melito

"Their prosperity," writes Howard Bloom, "depended on the fact that they were ahead of any other country in the commercial utilization of technology". Their fall, he continues, came when the British "grew fat with prosperity" and ignored three basic facts: "a) every technological breakthrough eventually grows old; (b) new innovations arrive to replace it; and c) the country that dominates these new technologies often rules the world".

In The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Exploration Into the Forces of History, Howard Bloom covers topics ranging from the biological basis for human evil to the rise and fall of the British Empire. The "Lucifer" in the book's title - the fallen angel of the Bible – is a literary reference in a well-researched work which contends that "evil is woven into our most biological fabric". Although Bloom consigns technological complacency to a less prominent place in the text, his brief history of British industry is instructive.

Don't mistake this installment of "The Y Files" as a bit of post-Independence Day Britain-bashing. It's not. After all, Bloom's discussion of national complacency comes in a chapter called "The Victorian Decline and the Fall of America", an eight-page tract which warns that "when hot new innovations come out of American labs, no American company scoops them up and turns them into the gadgets of tomorrow."

As evidence, Howard Bloom notes that while Bell Labs invented the transistor in the 1940s, Japanese companies made their fortunes by selling transistorized televisions in the decades that followed. American companies also invented the videocassette recorder (VCR), flat panel display (FPD), and amorphous crystal solar panels. Once again, however, Asian companies reaped the financial rewards.

So what about the rise and fall of Britain's technological empire? Bloom begins this part of his study with a discussion of coal tar – a byproduct of efforts to use coal for lighting, and to find a synthetic equivalent to malaria-fighting quinine. Although a British chemist named William Perkin discovered coal tar's use as a cloth dye, Bloom writes that "British industrialists turned up their noses at his discovery." German companies did not, however, and soon built a dye business that formed the kernel of that nation's chemical industry.

Britain also ignored opportunities in electricity and steel. Although "some of the greatest physicists of the age" worked in British labs, the electrifying discoveries of Michael Faraday and James Clerk Maxwell were maximized by the Germans and the Americans. The first electricity-generating plant in Britain was built by an American, Thomas Edison. By the time the Ohio native's British-born rival, Sir Coutts Lindsay, built his own power station, the alternators had to be imported from a German firm – Siemens. As for steel, the stuff of skyscrapers and weaponry, a Scottish-born American named Andrew Carnegie produced more of it than all of Britain by 1902.

So is the United States technologically complacent and in state of decline, an empire whose scientists still make great discoveries, but whose industrialists lack the vision to apply them? Bloom's 1995 book is dated, a product of a time when "Japan, Inc." put fear in the heart of American industry. Also, whereas German industrialists once built a chemical industry out of British-trained recruits, the United States remains a magnet for foreign-born students and scientists. Plus, modern industries are multinational or transnational, providing jobs from Michigan to Mississippi.

What do you think?

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#1

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/09/2008 11:08 AM

According to Dr. William Dagget, who is a leading speaker on preparing today's students for the technology landscape of tomorrow, he states that Japan is not afraid of the United States in terms of commercial development and global economy, especially as a direct competitor.

Japan is afraid of China. And in the 18 months since I listened to him, I can start to see why.

China is also not afraid of the United Stated. Or Japan. Who is China afraid of?

India.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 7:17 AM

Thanks for your comment! I've contacted Dr. Daggett's organization to request an interview with him. He's certainly someone that CR4 and The Y Files would like to hear from.

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#2

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 2:23 AM

Hi,

this is a sad reality.

The situation is not only valid for Britain but all over Europe and The US.

There are still many good examples but we will have to live or die with the situation that others (invent often) and produce very often products as good or better as ours with prices lower than ours.

The outcome is clear.

If salaries in India, Pakistan, China (no more this low) are at 1 $/h and in Europe and the US at 20 nominal but often (including tax etc.) 100 $/h real many branches of enterprises are going east.

There have been early in history forerunners: in the Roman Empire of Cesar most of the industries where located in the Latium homeland, but 100 years later most were located all over the provinces.

Today the situation is different: the rate of inventions and new products is much higher so the process will be faster.

Either we level our wages or go back to high customs barriers. Both will play havoc with our today existing wealth.

May be that the process is changed by selling big companies to new owners: most of European steel companies to an Indian? By many not welcome but for me a real chance to prolonged industrial activities.

Only hungry wolves go hunting, this is natural and valid for humans too.

But we are fat and saturated so the next century will be dominated by non-western countries.

German photo- and watchmaking- and textiles- and most machine-tool-industries were lost since now 50 years to eastern based companies. Why have they been better?

I do not think we learn a lot: education is worse than for the last 100 years (except Finland).

We will not match the necessities for a thriving future.

From Kindergarten to university funding is not at all growing.

Many good young people are going abroad - until now the US is an attractor but homeland security and related uglies changed a lot.

Where to extract any optimistic mood?

RHABE

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 7:02 AM

Hi RHABE,

From here in the UK I will say Amen to that!

Spencer.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 7:19 AM

Thanks for your comment, RHABE. You've taught me something that Howard Bloom did not. His book is wide-ranging, but lacks a discussion of how the Roman Empire moved industries out to the provinces. That model is very similar (in my opinion) to what has happened to the American Empire.

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#23
In reply to #2

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 6:36 PM

Now you understand why protectionism is the only viable way to maintain a country's economy UNLESS we have One World Government with One World Order. Believe me, we dont want to go THERE.

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#6

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 8:47 AM

One must also factor, in the US at least, the impact of overwhelming Federal regulation, manipulation and otherwise unwarranted meddling in the business world.

The amount of non-productive working hours necessary to comply with reams of Federal regulations is phenomenal, not to mention many other in-direct costs associated with them.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 9:09 AM

Hello Hooker,

I would agree from the world of education as well. The amount of administrative paperwork and double record redundancy to maintain regs is massive. I won't say that it is a bad idea, but it does take up a lot of time that could be used for effectively enhancing lessons and curriculum R & D. And with each passing year, the mantle of accountability seems to create more forms and more follow through.

I am not saying that accountability is not important. It is extremely important, but the current vehicle of government regulation is such that it clogs the business of business. Regulations exist to protect resources, be it people, the environment, or industries as a whole. But it seems that it is also a considerable drain on any company or organization's financial resources and in a time of impending apparent recession, the gap between reinvestment capital and simple maintenance capital is quickly closing. Part of me thinks that is why American business will continue to stagnate.

That and the continuously surging cost of living. Americans can't level out wages and be competitive with China's or India's labor force. How can we when many are struggling to own homes (or even rent apartments), put nutritious food on the table, and pay for fuel? Look no further than America's putrid credit card debt. A lot of it is for non-essential items and the effort to live above their means, but it is also people who are trying to buy groceries, fix their vehicles and pay for the inflating cost of education.

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#14
In reply to #6

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 3:29 PM

Hooker:

I've shared your feelings about government regulations for most of my life, but recent events have me re-thinking my position. My whole background is in business and I like to think that all business people share my sense of right and wrong. Consider, however:

1) the state of the finance industry because of the sleazy, underhanded way they have been doing business when not regulated. They have almost destroyed the whole foundation of home financing in this country. We'll be lucky to recover.

2) The state of health care coverage, again because of sleazy, underhanded business practices by insurers and others in an unregulated environment. The insurers are free to reject all but young, healthy applicants. That leaves millions uninsurable and within one illness of bankruptcy. The concept of insurance is to spread the misfortune of some over the whole population. If that seems unfair to the young and healthy, remember, they won't always be young and healthy and, when they're not, there'll be a system waiting to protect them.

The predatory "Cherry-Picking" of insurers is destroying a large segment of the population. A Republican candidate who thinks that this will be corrected by "Market Forces" is too naive to seriously consider.

3) The state of the American automobile industry which successfully fought the fuel economy regulations that would have made them world leaders in personal transportation instead of the pathetic also-rans they now are.

There are lots of other examples, airline maintenance and pharmaceutical industry practices, for example, but I think you get the idea. Unfortunately, American business needs regulation.

DickL

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 3:47 PM

And a VERY conservative mantra goes: "Those who will not police themselves will be policed by others." Always been and always will be true.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 3:59 PM

personally I like the mantra which states "Pigs get fat. Hogs go to slaughter."

Seems apropo.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 4:11 PM

DickL,

There's a lot of truth in what you write, and I agree,

To a point...

There are several cases in the examples that you list that would have been self-correcting, and even self-regulating, in the long term, IF THE POWERS THAT BE HAD NOT BAILED THE GUILTY CORPORATIONS OF OUT THEIR MONETARY HOLES.

Sorry for yelling but this is a real hot button topic for the Libertarian in me.

Yes, there are greedy business men and they, unfortunately, have caused to rest of us to bear the costs of heavy regulation. The home finance industry (and it's customers) should be allowed to sink in their own morass. This is the only way to "educate" people into being "good" citizens. You fall down? Pick yourself up!!!!

As far as health care... Well I could go way off topic here. Let me just say that this country operated just fine even before we had institutionalized health care. There is a lot to be said for community based, non-regulated support for those in need. We need to provide for ourselves, not depend on Uncle Sugar. I still have an insurance policy bought by my parents whose parents were members of an immigrant organization formed to provide their own support structure; ie, insurance, home financing, religious and social institutions, etc. They didn't wait for Uncle Nanny or mega-business to provide for them. They were just grateful to be admitted to this country and do for themselves.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. It wasn't aimed in any particular direction...

Except the federal gov't

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 4:34 PM

I don't think that any of the people who were left to sink in Enron's morass brought it on themselves, and Silverado was headed up by a guy, Neil...something or other...what was his name...oh, yeah, BUSH. He sank out of sight, but not into any morass. Last I heard he was living the good life in Dubai. Not everyone who gets into a bad financial situation brought it on themselves. Sometimes they were baited into it, sometimes things were done at very high corporate levels without public knowledge (much less the ability to opt out, such as factory closings), sometimes the government itself had a hand in creating the disaster. In those cases, I think a society that refuses to bail out the deserving does not deserve to exist as a society. Don't get me wrong, I'm far from being a bleedin' heart liberal, but I do believe in sheltering those in true need. Since when do you advocate that in all situations I should leave you to die in the street? I shan't sir, I shan't.

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#20
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Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 4:54 PM

Sorry, I guess I didn't make my point clear enough.

First, there are always exceptions to the rule. Unfortunately, the answer to all of today's problems seems to be to let Uncle Sugar deal with it. Or blame it on Uncle Sugar if it isn't dealt with in any other manner. This is wrong. This country was based on community support first.

Secondly, I don't believe in letting people die in the street.

I believe in letting the community deal with the problem first and foremost and calling for higher help ONLY when the situation warrants.

Am I the only one who saw credit unworthy people getting home financing as a problem in the making? And why should MY tax dollars be used to bail THOSE people (both creditors and creditees) out of a mess that I was NOT responsible for. I bought my houses under sane financial guidelines, within my budget, with little future risk (short of full depression conditions). I can't afford a house today, so I'm renting. Within my budget.

Just WHAT is need? And what makes one deserving of help at the involuntary expense of others? Who are "you" to demand that of the rest of us? (Enviroman, the "you" is not you directly, just the generic "you" who want the Feds to nanny the rest of us)

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 5:08 PM

Understood - I neither need nor want a nanny, and I don't advocate nannyism for any adult capable of feeding themself. True, community support should be the next logical step following self-support and family support, but when the problems have grown to a national scale (and were exacerbated by government actions or conversely, failure to act) then it sort of becomes incumbent on us as a nation to seek some sort of solution. Even an unpalatable cure may be worse than the disease. My parents were young adults during the "Great Depression" and went through war rationing during WWII. I heard all those stories when young. It was a heckuva lot easier to survive back then; people had gardens. Jobs when available were usually within walking distance of home, and so was most shopping if you lived in a town. Times have changed drastically, and if something like 1929 happens again, we will not have ANY happy days for quite some time, no matter who we are.

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#24
In reply to #17

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 9:44 PM

Hooker:

My inner Libertarian responds to your thinking, but your message is missing 4 little opening words: "In a perfect world........"

Unfortunately, in this world, there are some problems. First, in the finance industry, the problems have reached disastrous proportions that only the government could hope to alleviate. Disaster for the culprits would be a disaster for the entire national economy. Consider the magnitude of the proposed bailouts. They are in packages of hundreds of billions of dollars. Possibly totaling more than a trillion. Realistically, the non-interventional possibilities; "let them fail" or "let the rats save the sinking ship" would leave a gaping hole in our economy. That's why the Fed is so desperate to try to restore order.

As for health care, I too would love to see "community based, non-regulated support for those in need", but where is it? Only in that perfect world. Right now a family or individual without insurance and with, for example, pre-existing cancer faces financial ruin. Communities are doing nothing and insurance companies couldn't care less.

You've defined an ideal world and it's the same as mine. Unfortunately, for both of us..... for ALL of us. It's a fantasy.

DickL

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/11/2008 10:11 AM

Some regulation is necessary in any civilized society. We have so many layers of regulations that few if any have a complete grasp of the rules that apply to almost anything. Make common sense regulations that are clear and concise and enforce them. Maybe an over simplification of complex problems, but there are still countries where, if a person gets caught stealing they get they're hand cut off. Everyone understands and stealing needless to say doesn't happen much. I'm not suggesting anything quite that draconian here, but you get the point.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/11/2008 11:36 AM

Kramarat:

You raise a good point that I should have addressed. The fact that I advocate a financial bailout to keep our whole economy from being destroyed doesn't mean that no one should go to jail. There are a lot of culpable people out there and, just because laws were ignored freely doesn't make it acceptable. They should be investigated, prosecuted and buried so deep you have to pump daylight to them.

DickL

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#28
In reply to #24

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/11/2008 12:45 PM

Mr DickL

Have you not seen the "Sicko" movie. Good to Great care is out there, just not in the "Good Ol USA". Dun-Know why we are not protestingt in the streets about that???

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#31
In reply to #17

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/12/2008 8:43 AM

I'll stir the pot some more!:

The Fed felt it had to "bail out" those corp'ns, because: there were a whole lot of customers & investors @ risk of losing a whole lot more than the corp., & THEY WERE INNOCENT.

Most of said investors were 401(K) retirees who were there because their pensions & S.S. benefits were subliming (going straight from 'solid' to vapor, no intermediate phase involved)

What we need is serious prison time added to this story! A poor kid holds up a package store; is sent up for 5-10 yrs; an Enronesque fraud is perpertrated, against many thousand victims, some who've lost EVERYTHING! & what? If we keep losses in proper ratio to punishment, maybe we should make that sort of 'manipulation' a capital offense

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/13/2008 4:56 AM

DAMNIT, I can't agree enough with you!!!! The power brokers and CEO's and whatever the titles are for the flavor of their job need to be held accountable for actions that screw us, the "little guy." Don't just stop here with the idea of 401's and retirement go back farther to outsourcing of jobs, very, very sad indeed! Get rid of the "working class" by sending the job market overseas to increase profit by lowering production costs (not to mention doing away with medical benefits) while maintaining prices or even raising them in order to maintain profitability

Rant over

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/14/2008 6:17 AM

Yes, they do all of that, and then expect US to still be good little consumers, buying everything they advertise on TV. For those whose jobs fled our shores, with what? The offshore companies may sometimes build a factory here to save on freight, but if the corporate HQ is offshore, do not the profits head back home?

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/15/2008 12:12 AM

Yes, of course they do. I could very easily go and buy a toyota or any other type of asian car that is manufactured here in the states (check the vin #, if it starts with a 1 or a 4 then, used to be, that means it was made in America)... but ALL of the "profit would be going back to Japan, or wherever the different manufacturers are hq'd... Vin#1 and 4 remember...

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/15/2008 8:23 AM

Net profits go back to the HQ, but things like salary and taxes stay in this country. "Net" profit is a relatively small piece of the whole corporate monetary pie.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/15/2008 11:56 PM

Yes, I am aware of this.Just like my Chevy is actually built by a corporation that is publicly traded, so it is not necessarily a purely "American" owned company anymore. More like an American company owned by investors from around the world...

Sad indeed... downfall coming soon? Stay tuned for the results in Nov'...

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

12/25/2008 12:53 PM

Are you Nostradomus?

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

12/27/2008 12:00 AM

Do you know the term Kwistz Haderach?!? Just kidding...but seriously, are you aware of this term? It doesn't apply to me, nor does the Nostradomus title. Hey, anyone for a fortune? I read palms and...chicken bones and tea leaves (chuckle, chuckle)...

Ferris

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

12/27/2008 9:26 AM

sshhhhhh......I survived the Agony Ritual myself.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

12/27/2008 10:45 PM

Your secret is mine as mine is yours...; especially, as no one else seems to know this title.

Ferris...(a.k.a. Ferris Muad'ib)

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#18
In reply to #6

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 4:25 PM

Hi Hooker,

there is a recent estimate that federal, state and local regulation costs about 50 billion € per year!

In reality more as this is only the part of the companies not the part of the cost that is caused by the bureaucratic structure that is working (or not) with the data.

RHABE

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 4:59 PM

I'm not surprised, Rhabe.

As the former CEO of a three man LLC (with 5 or 6 contractors on the hook at any given time) I typically spent 60-70% of my time, based on a 40 hour week) on non-productive "work" mostly related to intrusive gov't regulations.

Most of my productive work was performed well beyond the 40 hour period. I never want to run my own business again.

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#7

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 8:59 AM

There are probably as many or more factors influencing industrial displacement as there are industries moving their production facilities offshore. The one sure fact I know is this: when all of the jobs are outsourced, we will not be buying any of the products, no matter how cheap they are. I am not afraid. I am VERY afraid...

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 11:34 AM

Minding America's Business (the Decline and Rise of the American Economy), and The Silent War: Inside the Global Business Battles Shaping America's Future are both REALLY good and informative books authored by Ira Magaziner.

There are so many examples of US tech not being realized for its potential it is stunning. But when it comes to government support of companies the US is really short sighted, even hobbled by policy. The laws here do not allow the gov to assist companies in recouping expenses associated with r&d or marketing.

So what if Johnnies glass company accidentally comes across a unique development as a result of one of their processes? Say Johnnie's finds that when the stem of a wine glass made out of a break resistant (plasticized) formula gets overheated it falls into the furnace leaving a remarkably flexible and long and clear thread behind. One of the engineers says "Wow that is cool, I wish I had 20 million US to see if I could transport data in the form of light impulses along that thread." Many can see the wide range of possibilities here, but johnnie's must develop this item through private enterprise or relinquish it to deep pockets. Fortunatley Dow-Corning had deep pockets and could proceed on their own when just such an event happened in their labs.

Take the Scandanavian shipping industry. At a point when many were almost bankrupt, the govt stepped in and helped work out a plan where as much could be salvaged as possible. One result was an upsurge in Volvo into new arenas with the subsidized retooling of ship builders to offset the cost of increased production and development.

Japan has an entire policy for developing private companies products so that the whole of the country might benefit. Remember the solar calculator? Texas Instruments technology deemed rather useless. Millions of revenue for Casio. Or the microwave oven?

NASA is the closest we have to govt assistance for "private" technologies. NASA is a non-gov entity working in tandem with all parties. A very unique relationship worth a little time exploring (no pun intended).

Charles

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#9

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 9:25 AM

sorry folks this is TOTALLY unrelated to the blog about the lucifer posting what i would like to find out is when where and by what publisher the item at the very top entry under Moose's posting comes from.

I refere to the words "World Controller" apparently by a Mustapha Mond chapter 16, page 225. any more info on the book other than those few words?

thanks for allowing me to put the unrelated on the web page, but i am MOST curious about the texts' origins and intent of its message.

'da ber

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 9:44 AM

The way I read it is that it is a passage from "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley; i.e. see page 225 of that book!

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 9:51 AM

It is indeed a passage from Brave New World, when the Controller is talking to "the Savage" (if memory serves).

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 12:08 PM

Good to hear from you, barfnagler. Mustapha Mond is a character in a book called "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. It's a must read written many years ago - especially because some of its "predictions" have come true (at least in my opinion).

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#25
In reply to #9

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/10/2008 10:11 PM

I think that the book is about eugenics, I just saw a clip on this subject last night... Look it up , it is all new world order and (I presume) kinda Orwellian (think 1984)...The government is in a sad state of disrepair and I feel like we are only going to keep going down, any one for the NAU? Charles your candidate, is he still in the running, or did he back out? What is it considered to want a smaller fed with broader state and city gov'ts where needed? I have been told that this is something that an indenpendent would want, but alas I haven't the slightest idea.

Cheers

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#29

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/11/2008 7:09 PM

If one really studies history (and some "pre-history"), one finds that most "great" civilizations only claimed the Golden Years for about 300 to 500 years at most. The United States has about 100 years left. The real issue is, who is going to step up to take their place?

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#30
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Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/12/2008 8:28 AM

Let's bear in mind that history is not necessarily destined to repeat itself. The United States experiment, for the most part has been a resounding success. You cannot backtrack in history and find anything that remotely resembles the United States, and therefore you cannot accurately predict the ultimate demise of the US. We need to cleanse ourselves of the bad apples and get back on track to the common sense and hard work that made this country great in the first place. That's all.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/12/2008 2:26 PM

Gosh..! Definetly is a huge powerful nation, agree. Best deal for global business will be share technologies for the good and trading ingeniuosly concepts and all of that with econo balancing efforts coordination to further everyones lives,absolutly. As far as things to some kind of balancing approach that will be the note of the moment. Probably through some monitoring controllers in phase, No doubth about it...

Going with the Impulse,

MC

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#34
In reply to #29

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/14/2008 4:11 AM

Hi Cwarner,

have there really been existing "Golden Years"?

Anything comparable I know was a series of wars and hunger and destruction, slavery, misery and so on and some few happy glorious people that often experienced misery later.

Prehistoric time: a series of movements, wars and hunger, inventing new tools (to kill) and gaining more power.

Early historic times: Mesopotamia, Egypt, Bahrain, Maya, China: all these continuous wars.

Invaders from starving parts of the world: threatened and founded new civilisations: Doric and Ionic invaders of Greece, later Celtic plunderers ...

Cimbric and Teutonian tribes invading Rome later Gothic tribes destroyed the rotten relics of an Empire.

European history started with cheating and war among Francs (Pippin).

So in my opinion there only very seldom is a good period (the 100 years of peace in Roman empire was only peace in the inside.)

The glorification of past cruelties is another fact (from Cesar to Napoleon, Hitler has to wait some more 100 years).

The only new situation is globalisation but I am not sure that this will help.

RHABE

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#36
In reply to #34

Re: Lucifer and The Lost Eden

07/14/2008 1:22 PM

Yeah yeap, Interesting post all absolutly. Felt like reading a -real time book- yes indeed. Good learning something always, definetly. Allrigth all nice day now and check with ya' later then. Hasta la Vista Buddies...

Back to the Grind,

MC

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