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Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

Posted August 05, 2008 10:09 AM

From SPACE.com:

Top astronomers and other planetary scientists will step into the ring this month to duke it out over a basic, yet controversial, question: What is a planet? "The Great Planet Debate: Science as Process" conference will be held from Aug. 14-16 at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) in Laurel, Md. Some astronomers see the conference as a way of cleaning up the mess created by the organization that names celestial bodies, the International Astronomical Union (IAU), which in August 2006 voted in a new definition of planet that demoted Pluto to "dwarf planet." (Under a more recent IAU decision, Pluto and similar objects are classified as "plutoids.") Many planet scientists were disgruntled over the 2006 IAU decision, which they said involved a vote of just 424 astronomers out of some 10,000 professional astronomers around the globe. The most recent decision, to categorize Pluto and such as plutoids, further ticked off many astronomers, who felt the term was developed behind closed doors. "We're going to do something that the IAU did not, which is discuss what we know about planetary bodies in the solar system and around other stars, and discuss the value of different ways of defining objects as planets and what that means," said Mark V. Sykes, director of the Planetary Science Institute in Tucson, Ariz. When the dust settles, those involved hope a consensus will stand, a classification scheme for all objects orbiting a star. "If a new consensus emerges it will easily overturn the IAU. This is not an issue," said Neil deGrasse Tyson, director of the American Museum of Natural History's Hayden Planetarium in New York. "If not, they'll stick with what they've got until something better comes along." Tyson said he doesn't see the IAU so much as a separate entity, but as part of and a reflection of the astronomical community.

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/05/2008 11:17 AM

What makes the word "planet" so special anyway? Why can't every natural object orbiting a star just be "a planet"? Sure...there's big ones and little ones, dry ones, rocky ones and dusty ones and icy ones and metallic ones. All planets. If it's also orbiting an object bigger than it is? That's a moon. Not orbiting a star or another object? It's a body.

There. We're done now. You're welcome.

Please use the time I've just freed up to figure out how to get to them.

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The Engineer
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/05/2008 2:58 PM

You Wrote:"There. We're done now. You're welcome."

Yeah, except there are millions of objects orbiting the Sun. Calling them all the same thing regardless of size seems impractical.

I think the problem here is the demotion of Pluto. Look, I deal with units that don't make any sense because they are 'legacy' units. Don't even get me started on Ben Franklin and the whole electricity fiasco. I dont care that pluto isnt a perfect "planet", its a legacy and has earned its right to be a planet.

O.K., now I'm done.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/05/2008 3:10 PM

Agreed. IAU is guilty of Plutocide.

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 6:50 AM

I suspect the IAU was just flexing their muscles to show how powerful they areby demoting pluto. What did that poor dog do to them anyway?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 8:33 AM

Like everything else in the world, this argument is about money. The Astronomers know they can get bigger grants for discovering planets than they can for plutiods. A new planet is sexy and exciting. They've been promoting the existence of Planet X for the last 50 years.

Problem here is the slippery slope of letting in the hundreds of Pluto sized objects out there currently unclassified. (Can you imagine being nine years old and being told you had to memorize the 150 planet names?)

We have to draw the line at some point. This is really about Astronomers smelling easy money and pushing for every Kuiper Belt object out there to be called a planet.

Here is the new rule:

Planets are formed as part of the proto-solar disk. All material left swirling and agglomerating on the verges are left to form comets, asteroids, and staging areas for Earth invasion.

-A-

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 9:44 AM

I would think that if finding a new planet can be made so easy just by changing the definition of a planet that it would devalue the opportunity of discovering a new one.

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#11
In reply to #3

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 10:51 AM

Plutocide. From now on any time I'm talking about this I gonna slip that term in. Just good stuff.

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#17
In reply to #2

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/07/2008 5:09 AM

Hands up all those who think of Pluto as a Dwarf planet? (excluding those members of the IAU) Nuff said!

Do they really have the arrogance to think they can change they way people think about things just by making a proclamation? Pluto has been a planet in peoples minds since 1930, and will remain so.

As for planet 'x', has everyone already forgotten Eris? It's bigger then Pluto.

By the way, I don't think Disney's re branding of Pluto as a lovable hound works. He will always be the god of the underworld to me!

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#6

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 9:29 AM

Call me old school...but why does it have to be all or none? As stated with legacy, Pluto should be grandfathered in as a plant.

Besides, what am I supposed to do with this piece of second grade wisdom from Mrs. Ruth Huth: "Many Varying Elephants Make Jelly Sandwiches Using No Peanutbutter."

No Pluto = No Peanutbutter

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 11:01 AM

May I suggest:

Most Votes to Expel Minor-planets Just Serve to Unsettle Novices.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 3:41 PM

Must Vote to Expel Mostly Jaded Scientists Unbashedly Needing Publicity

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#15
In reply to #6

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/07/2008 1:51 AM

Hello ShakespeareTheEngineer

Problem with a Spellchecker, is that it does not always show up errors.

<"....Call me old school...but why does it have to be all or none? As stated with legacy, Pluto should be grandfathered in as a plant.....">

What genus of Plant did you mean?

Kind Regards....

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#20
In reply to #15

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/09/2008 1:48 PM

Indeed. "Planet" it is. I am usually pretty solid about my proofreading, too. Looks like commenting on one screen and eyeballing actual work on the other does not lend itself to perfection in either area.

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#7

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 9:32 AM

Does anyone know the rule/policy/tradition about why planets were named for major deities from Hellenistic mythology, but that their satellites were pulled from either minor Hellenistic characters, Norse characters, or even Shakespearean characters?

Is it true that whoever discovers the heavenly body gets to make the call on the name?

That means the Norse god Modi might some day have a space rock with his name?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 9:41 AM

As might his brother, Magni. There's hope.

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#10

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 10:38 AM

Read this:

" planet, as defined by the International Astronomical Union (IAU), is a celestial body orbiting a star or stellar remnant that is massive enough to be rounded by its own gravity, not massive enough to cause thermonuclear fusion, and has cleared its neighbouring region of planetesimals"

The above definition suits well to call pluto a planet. It doesn't matter how far or how small it is. Its a planet. If pluto were orbiting another planet, then it would be a moon.

If IAU still have that uforia energy about naming things, they should concentrate on giving our moon a unique name so that the word 'moon' will not get confused with moons of other planets. Or general name for object that orbits the planet. Note: the moons of other planets have their unique name.

The same with the word 'satellite' . It gets confused with artificial one.

How about -> adsecula (adsecia) -ae m. [follower , servant, sycophant].

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/06/2008 1:09 PM

Luna

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#16

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/07/2008 1:55 AM

Tradition is a wonderful thing, and shouldn't be thrown out the door, because of some Committee decision.

In my book, Pluto will remain as a Planet, and there is this who agrees with me, so there.

Kind Regards....

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#18

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/07/2008 1:27 PM

I know of the Planet Pluto but who/what is a International Astronomical Union (IAU)?

Is this like PETA for the Planets?

Next they will want to metricide the names of all planets. say Planet #3 or Planet 1AU. Looks to me like we have Ten Planets ( unless Eris is a big fuzzy snowflake) and lots of smaller bodies.

One thing I've always wondered about is the name Earth. It translates to dirt or fertile dirt. How many other planets in outer space have the name dirt?

Brad

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Anonymous Poster
#19

Re: Great Planet Debate: Scientists Could Overturn Official Definition

08/08/2008 10:08 AM

I don't agree with the definition that the IAU came up with. More importantly though, is why isn't the IAU applying their own definition evenly? The only "planet" to be excluded from the original 9, was Pluto. Read "their" definition again. According to their own definition, half of the planets in our solar system should be excluded as well.

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