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Inventors are sure cars can fly

Posted August 18, 2008 9:39 AM

From USATODAY.com Tech - Top Stories:

The auto industry has seen its share of technological leaps, whether it was the advent of electric starters, automatic transmissions or hybrid gas-electric powertrains. And don't forget hideaway headlights. One leap that engineers and tinkerers have never quite made, however, but refuse to let die: the flying car. Year after year a few more try. Of all those stuck stewing in traffic gridlock, who hasn't imagined soaring Jetsons-style directly to a destination? Most flying cars never get off the page, let alone the ground. The few that do are bedeviled by lack of funding, impracticality, limited appeal or fears they may simply break apart in flight — as some have. The fact is that these keystones of modern transportation — cars and planes — have basic differences that make them a match made in hell. "It's like trying to mate a pig and an elephant," says Lionel Salisbury, editor of the Roadable Times, a website that has made him a de facto chronicler of flying car attempts. "You don't get a very good elephant, or a very good pig." Today, a new crop of magnificent men and women believe advanced materials and sounder business practices finally will allow their flying machines to defy skeptics. They range from a guy who just built a prototype three-wheel flying motorcycle in the driveway of his Los Angeles home to a Woburn, Mass., company with more than 50 orders for a two-seat car that flies. Some designs call for wings that telescope. Some fold, manually or at the push of a button. No dreamers allowed. Only cold-eyed realists. Aware of how quickly they can be branded kooks, the new breed deliberately discourages the label "flying cars" and eschews Hollywood fantasies such as Harrison Ford cruising the skies of Los Angeles in Ridley Scott's 1982 Blade Runner.

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#1

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/18/2008 9:49 AM

When pigs fly?

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#13
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 11:18 AM

Much later...

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#2

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/18/2008 10:15 AM

Personally, I feel the aquatic car is a more promising investment than a flying car.

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#3
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/18/2008 12:10 PM

You mean like this:

Aquatic Car

Looks like fun, but somewhat impractical. At least with a flying car, I could get around congestion vertically. Too bad it would be like driving with no lines on the road.

Mid-air collisions would not only be ugly, but how many nights on the news would you see a car parked halfway through someone's roof?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/18/2008 12:20 PM

Actually that does look joyous. In the case of the flying car, the practicality does not outweigh the dangers of flying. I am sure it is much harder to learn how to fly than to drive a boat due to the vertical and horizontal angles.

The world already has a system for boats and airplanes. It would be more hazardous and difficult to account for a flying car than for an aquatic car.

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#5
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/18/2008 12:33 PM

Not to mention that there is no commuting point to most people buying a aquatic car. Its not like I am going to take the Hudson River all the way home. The speed would be so reduced (not to mention the fuel efficiency) that I would be better off just staying on the highway, despite congestion (financially, not necessarily for my sanity).

Flying cars could be used everyday (well, maybe not during bad storms - although water caring in a storm would be no picnic either). I am not saying that it would be a good idea, but if the licensing was just as stringent as it is now, you wouldn't have people just buying a car and going for a fly.

You would also need to build more county air-carports to make it useful, anyway. Due to telephone and electricity lines, it's not like I could just take off and land on my street.

I am not endorsing this idea, but just discussing feasibility if it were ever to hear the market for mid to upper end consumers. If its costs $375,000 for one, like some small airplanes do, there wouldn't be a noticeable difference. Granted, you can buy a single engine Cessna from the 50's 60's or 70's for under $25,000 on Ebay.

This would be more practical than a Cessna because you land and then drive to work, but would people really want to go through the pre-flight check before and after work every day? Probably not. Time wouldn't necessarily be save and with the price of flight grade kerosene (as it is a common aviation fuel source), I am not sure most would find that it was worth the investment, anyhow.

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#6

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 1:23 AM

The implication here is that since this is a car that flies, operating it is just like driving a car. Flying during the day with good visibility in good weather and line of sight to your destination is not much harder than driving. But after dark in poor weather and low visibility is nothing like driving. That is very advanced, IFR flying. It is not easy and is well beyong the capability of most commuters.

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#7

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 1:57 AM

On any given day, on any given road, I am constantly reminded that most people are incapable of competent operation of a motor vehicle in two dimensions. Who in their right mind can honestly believe that adding another dimension to the level of difficulty could ever have a favorable outcome?

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#8

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 2:08 AM

Moller figured out how to use GPS to put highways in the skies.

CBS 60 Minutes, "Highway In the Sky", April 2005

But the FAA and our Public masters will never let it happen. Control issues in the land of the free.

Brad

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#9

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 3:36 AM

I don't see the connection.

i.e. Why limit oneself to a car? How about

the armchair? Or the good old fashioned carpet!

jt.

I used to wonder why; now I just wonder.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 6:10 AM

Hello jt

Just for you.

Kind Regards....

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#23
In reply to #10

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 6:10 PM

Hi ya Sparky - thanks for the pics; great! Exactly what I had in mind.

I think all "human flyers" should try carrying an 8ft x 4ft sheet

in a good wind; it beats the hell out of dreaming!

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when I realised my life was in ruins.

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#11

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 6:15 AM

it looks as if a good industry to invest in, will be manufacture of very good protective helmets.

Kind Regards....

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#12

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 11:12 AM

Hello,

There seems to be a lot of negativity in terms of personal flight feasibility. OK, men did not evolve and grow wings - why? Either there was no need or we are too scared! Our skeleton is remarkably similar to that of a bird (or many other animals for that matter).

Everyone that is looking at flying cars with some seriousness here seems to assume to soar high in the sky with visions of crashes into houses.

Let us think a little more about a 1-25 foot hover, above existing roadways to avoid those nasty charging roof tops. Surely a balloon like safety device or parachute could be employed to cushion the fall or a collision.

Any (one or two) modern PC has sufficient computing power to auto navigate a plane, likely for under $1000 plus software.

Unfortunately without any foresight none of our roadways are laid out to deal with 3D traffic - power lines, telephone poles, traffic lights etc.

We should also look more at the reason why we commute. A large percentage of us could work from home as well as the office, given a reasonable amount of self discipline, reducing traffic we would have saved enough money in fuel costs to be able to then climb into our sky car to go on vacation. The government would not even need the gas taxes to repave the roads. A lot of larger corporations are outsourcing their office work to contractors working from home today to reduce the overhead.

Where is Da Vinci when you need him?

It could be so simple, if we could just do away with gravity in a controlled fashion then we would float, and a lot of these feasibility problems would be past tense. Sure easier said than done, impossible - yea for now, let`s check back in 30 years.

Personally I see tires to be somewhat extinct in the future, ok laugh, perhaps if we didn`t invent the wheel we would grow wings through evolution, given enough time?

Regardless of what we can do in the future, check the Moller Sky Car website - fascinating, and a reality right now, FDA approval pending of course. http://www.moller.com/skycar.htm

I am waiting for the day someone will ask me to assist them mechanically to further R&D a personal flying machine.

Just remember a bumble bee can fly, although deemed physically impossible, furthermore the bee is much smaller than even the PC we discussed to use as an auto pilot, doesn`t crash into roof tops and doesn`t have headlights or wheels, it doesn`t have a propeller or a jet, but it can hover on a spot and does`t require jet fuel.

We need to mimic nature much better. After all it will be difficult to beat millions of years of evolution in our lifetime, and this should be the starting point to develop a personal flying machine rather than starting from scratch.

All right I am getting a picture of a likeness of a small car with a set of bumble bee wings - but let us not calculate if it can fly, after all bumble bees can`t fly either according to math. If I had the funding I would attempt to build a personal flying device based on further morphing evolution mixed using the most advanced light weight materials or natural products. Let us not forget the ECO factor, perhaps we can plant and grow the wings in a green house, given some genetic engineering.

Just some food for thought!

Mirco Graenert.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 11:34 AM

Not that it really matters as it is just a side point of your discussion, but unless I gravely misunderstand evolution, we would not have developed wings as an adaptation to walking unless there was some mass mutation that made having wings the only way a large portion of humanity would survive a certain event (like a plague or ground based predators). Even then, it's not like if all of a sudden Lions started a rampage, we would just sprout wings and fly above them. It would take small changes and mutations that continued to develop. While I am no geneticist, I assume that once we became homo sapiens, the likelihood of that ever happening was extremely remote, if not impossible.

I would bet that we, as a species, are more likely to evolve and be like a flying squirrel than a bird. Especially when you consider it is something like an adaptation to skin, not changing bone structure.

This might not be that far off with the increase in gastric bypass surgery. There a lot of people rolling around now with large amount of excess skin. And now that I have destroyed my appetite imagining people slowly descending through the air thanks to the wind resistance of excess skin, I am going back to work.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 11:54 AM

Think fruit bats - we'd have to have evolved this feature when our ancestors were MUCH smaller. And so should we still be, in that event...

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#16
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 11:59 AM

Shakey, it was supposed to be food for thought, not lost appetite due to skin.

Lions causing us to evolve to fly, interesting, perhaps someone could take this genetically further and elaborate how this could have worked, assuming the rampage of course.

It seems to me that we have taken evolution into our own hands since the upright walking of men by building tools and machines to accomplish the tasks our bodies can`t take care of on their own, and during all that we have forgotten why we need it in the first place, as well as having displaced genetic evolution triggers or requirements.

Getting back to the flying car thing could have prevented you to picture flying skinned humans, what are your thoughts on mixing likely evolutionary events with technology (eliminating the need for skin)?


Mirco.

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#17
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 12:21 PM

Ha! I am sure that was the intent indeed. I think that the film "Bicentennial Man" (the one based on the short story by Issac Asimov) may really have the ticket. We will genetically/technologically engineer body parts.

I think advancements as a race have led to a string of ideas about people getting "upgrades" because evolution can't be predicted, nor can it keep up with what we want, when we want it, so we will find other ways to satisfy that drive. Does anyone really care whether or not we will have wings (or be immune to cancer) in three million years? No. They want it now and will go to whatever end to get it.

There is also the film "Gattaca" which I think suggests we will be able to custom order children based on gene mapping and as technology develops, we will be able to add/change/upgrade.

And if AI develops, what is to say there will be a mass difference between man and machine? Maybe in the long run, "Blade Runner" wasn't that far off and that cloning and technology upgrades are not as distant as it seemed in 1982.

Genetic engineering and technology development on that level is be scary. I am sure a human flying machine will be available before a flying human is, however, as the many people realize how much fire we are playing with when you have the power to rebuild a human being from the DNA up.

That being said, if I could order myself a pair of cellular-tech hybrid wings, I'd be all over it. How big would they have to be to get me off the ground?

Maybe I just found next week's challenge question.

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#18
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 12:35 PM

There are flying suits that let you glide from altitude much like a flying squirrel. Don't remember the author, but I once read a good science fiction story called "I Put My Blue Genes On". Check it out - this would have been ca. 40 years ago...

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#19
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 12:40 PM

I'll have to look into that. I am sure that The Dark Knight has sent inventors flying. Did you see the article on CR4 about the guy who built his own Batmobile from "Batman Begins"? Something like $50,000 just in parts.

With that type of creativity and disposable income, it is only a matter of time until the flying (or gliding) suit is a reality.

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#20
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 12:45 PM

No, no - it IS a reality! I'm leaving now to prepare for what was supposed to be a hurricane but isn't, or I'd find you a video link. Google "flying suit", you'll find it!

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#21
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 12:50 PM

I just found it: http://www.dorks.com/videos/Flying-Suit.html

I am going to put our resident myth buster on it and see what he thinks. There are quite a few different videos, though.

Too bad they don't make them ShakespeareTheEngineer size!

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#24
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/20/2008 8:25 AM

Hello,

Just remembered seeing this rocket man video some time ago.

This is amazing... check it out!! A MUST SEE! I don`t like the comment about Nasa, I am sure one of the confused space aliens at area 51 was a rocket man a long time ago, perhaps in 1943? Never mind, from this video it is obvious that not only cars can fly, but indeed humans to. We can`t wait for evolution, but it would be interesting to know how we would evolve, such that we can build it now. The rocket pack certainly adds some speed, to qualify for a flying car, we just need a fuselage, and a vertical take off engine would be nice! Would it be dangerous? Ohhh yeaaaaa, but what exitment is there without some danger. One day in the future our ancestors will look at these posts and say, gee, they didnt even think cars could fly safely, now every 4 year old has a scaled down version!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-oQ--U-WaQ

(paste the link into your browser)

Wonder what would happen if Yves met with Moller and a geneticist.

Mirco.

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#22
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Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/19/2008 1:28 PM

And good luck with the pseudo-hurricane!!!

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#25

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/20/2008 8:38 AM

Hello, here is another prototype from Milner Motors, the wings fold, looks like it still needs some work, likely 9/11 also will put a damper on flying cars, too bad, really, berhaps a height limit could deal with that.

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#26

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/20/2008 5:07 PM

Look. Forget the cars, concentrate on the plane.

Even a brick will fly if you throw it hard enough.

While I might admire the courage of the Swiss rocket man
I just cannot see the average chappy going out dressed like
that; - unless it's with a load of nappies!

Even if there's mileage in a personal transport air machine,
I very much doubt the authorities would allow them. They
(the authorities) cannot control ordinary cars on the ground, let
alone "flying bombs" in the hands of the down town stompers.

I'm sorry but the reality of this discussion is depressing me;
until I meet Scotty (beam me up) I just cannot connect.

jt.

Cannot come out and play tonight, I'm polishing my spaceship.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/20/2008 9:00 PM

Hello jt

Just for you.

Kind Regards....

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#28
In reply to #26

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/21/2008 9:02 AM

Hey JT,

don`t take everything literally. From my perspective we are discussing the possibility of flying cars.

Point: If a rocket man can fly, then surely a car like structure if it is light enough can.

I see parallels of the proposed flying car and the rocket man. Like I said, with just a fuselage and some wheels it could be deemed a car, when on the ground anyway.

What defines a CAR? If it didn`t have wheels, would it still be a car? If it didn`t have an engine, but a jet, is is still a car? The point here is perhaps we shouldn`t be calling it car at all if it is to take off from the ground, perhaps hovercraft, or personal transportation device, having said that I guess "CARS" will never fly, as they are no longer cars when they take off as far as I am concerned, except for maybe Dukes of Hazard.


Mirco.

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#29

Re: Inventors are sure cars can fly

08/21/2008 6:34 PM

Thanks for the pics Sparky, you're really good at them!

As a pseudo engineer (retired) I get a kick out of solutions. (as we all)
The flip side is I feel repressed when a problem seems "unsolvable"
i.e. a car is a car, and, it is not meant to fly. (so I'm exonerated.)

It seems Mirco (and others) want to morph a car into a plane.
Crediting both designs with aerodynamics, saving on weight, having
wheels, etc. it is just feasible to consider a car morphing into a plane,
but, likely, it will not do either task well. We still are not there yet.

I remember reading similar text in the magazine "Practical Mechanics"
every 10 years of so, in the 30's 40's 50's 60's etc. - and with very eye
catching drawings on the covers inspiring the young men, including me.
(still have the magazines)

The reality is, like making an orange into a cricket ball. It's round, about
the same size, can the thrown in the air, the problem comes with the bat.
i.e. it all looks good (like the cover pics) but fails in practice. (shame.)

Best regards to you all.

jt.

My parents said, if strangers pull up along side me in a car when I'm walking
home from school, and they ask me to get in; just go!

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