The Engineer's Notebook Blog

The Engineer's Notebook

The Engineer's Notebook is a shared blog for entries that don't fit into a specific CR4 blog. Topics may range from grammar to physics and could be research or or an individual's thoughts - like you'd jot down in a well-used notebook.

Previous in Blog: Forensics: Junk Science or Reliable Means of Conviction?   Next in Blog: Putting a Little Scantegrity Into U.S. Politics
Close
Close
Close
86 comments

Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

Posted September 17, 2008 12:00 AM by Sharkles

If you've been following me on this journey that is Kate's Controversies, then you have probably noticed that I get a little freaked-out when it comes to privacy issues. I've been told that if I had nothing to hide, then I shouldn't be worried. I personally find that statement to be offensive, as many of us grow-up believing that we have the freedom of privacy.

In reality, increasing amounts of surveillance and information-collection are changing our societies. This seems to foster a sense of distrust and discontent, which is detrimental to our individual and global societies. People who feel as though they're being tracked may be less likely to participate and stand up for their personal rights.

Freedom Not Fear 2008
On October 11th, 2008, however, people will stand up for their rights to privacy. On this day, an international protest will take place – and people from all over the world will take to the streets and advocate for "Freedom Not Fear 2008". The purpose of the movement is simple, to raise awareness of and end excessive surveillance by governments and businesses. Some of this movement's demands include:

  1. Cutback on surveillance.
  2. Evaluation of existing surveillance powers.
  3. Moratorium of new surveillance powers
  4. Guaranteeing freedom of expression, dialogue and information on the Internet.

A detailed explanation of each demand can be found, here.

Freedom Not Fear is largely-based in Europe, but invites people from other countries to partner and show support. A list of participating countries and the capitals that the group will protest in can be found here. Admittedly, I will not be going to Washington to participate in the protest; however, I do support what the movement stands for – which is why I am sharing it with all of you.

What do you think of "Freedom Not Fear 2008"?

  • Do they have reasonable demands?
  • Will this movement be effective?
  • Are you concerned with the amount of surveillance in your country?

Resources:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/06/international-day-of-1.html

http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/content/view/242/144/

http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/Freedom_Not_Fear_2008/Concept

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
United States - Member - Lifelong New Yorker Popular Science - Biology - Animal Science Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Technical Writer

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 2409
Good Answers: 59
#1

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 8:35 AM

While it would be nice, I don't think it'll help. Too many companies are using stuff for their own benefit to stop collecting. It is scary how much knowledge there is on individuals these days. A positive is that it could someday help evidence in crimes be more clearcut. It's scary though, to think that just about every move you make is recorded.

Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Popular Science - Evolution - Aren't we still evolving?

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 219
#2

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 9:06 AM

Your post reminded me of this article in the NY Times, and I think it's just a sign of our times. There is so much information available on people (much of it put out there by the individuals themselves) that I don't think it is reasonable to expect businesses (or people searching for a date) not to use it.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 9:42 AM

Thanks for the link - the article is very amusing and remarkably relateable. It does raise a good point, that people are largely at fault for putting themselves out there in places like facebook or myspace. However, I think the issue of surveillance is different because it includes situations where people don't know that they're necessarily being watched. You don't know if you're going to be searched, or who is reading your emails or monitoring phone calls. As an American, I personally feel like some of the measures that have been implemented to "protect" citizens are more intrusive than helpful.

I think I have mentioned it on CR4 before, but I read a book called No Place to Hide, which talks about the increasing amount of surveillance in the post-9/11 USA. Here is an excerpt from the Center of Investigative Reporting, which gives an idea about what the book is focused on:

Consider the following: When you use your cell phone, the phone company knows where you are and when. If you use a discount card, your grocery and prescription purchases are recorded, profiled, and analyzed. Many new cars have built-in devices that enable companies to track from afar details about your movements. Software and information companies can even generate graphical link-analysis charts illustrating exactly how each person in a room is related to every other -- through jobs, roommates, family, and the like. Almost anyone can buy a dossier on you, including almost everything it takes to commit identity theft, for less than fifty dollars.

It may sound like science fiction, but it's the routine activity of the nation's fast-growing information industry and, more and more, its new partner the U.S. government.

Reading that book has definately changed my outlook on privacy (or made me more paranoid). I don't know what security and survellience are like in other countries - especially the EU, where the movement orginates - so hopefully some of our CR4 friends from around the world can shed some light on what this issue is like in their country.

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Popular Science - Evolution - Aren't we still evolving?

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 219
#6
In reply to #3

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 10:26 AM

This reminds me of my father, who pays cash for everything, since the credit card companies track your purchases, won't use discount cards, for the same reason, and refuses to get an EZ-Pass even though he goes through a toll booth regularly because they can track his travels. So yes, you can try to fight it but I agree with Jaxy this won't end in the public's favor, too many things are already tracked and monitored and I don't see those who are benefitting from gathering this information wanting to stop.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 10:35 AM

I agree that the beneficiaries are probably not going to stop without a fight - and even with a fight. I just think that privacy is worth fighting for, even if the desired result is never attained fully. I do not have much faith that the general public fully understands or cares about what is happening - so I am thinking that knowledge is power. But, then again, I am also a cynic.

And at the risk of getting too political with this topic, I am going to have to stop here for now

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 762
Good Answers: 9
#22
In reply to #6

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 8:11 AM

This Man sounds Brilliant. Kudos to your father, he is old enough and wise enough to really understand George Orwell. Alas, I have to use a Credit Card for ID and a Cellphone since I travel so much, so the best I can do is try my darndest to confuse the system. It would be so sweet to work and be off the Grid. EZ-Pass is my most hated tracking device because it serves to purposes, also eliminating jobs. I agree though that it will only get worse, since the younger generations are conditioned to accept this as awesome, the one before me is in a perpetual welfare society mode, and mine is just darn selfish.

Gotta stop, to much on my mind and I don't want to be tracked as a dissident.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Globaly - very close to the southern most point of Canada
Posts: 445
Good Answers: 12
#23
In reply to #6

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 8:21 AM

Just an FYI on the tolll thing..... license plate readers have been around for a long time. They are used more than we know.......

__________________
-why bother doing it wrong when it will be anyway.......
Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Popular Science - Evolution - Aren't we still evolving?

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 219
#26
In reply to #23

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 8:56 AM

Yes I know, I went through the EZ-Pass lane once by accident and when I had to get off the highway I didn't have a ticket so I figured I'd just go through the EZ-Pass lane again. I forgot all about it until a ticket showed up in my mail with a picture of my car (license plate and all) showing me driving through the EZ-Pass lane. Can't get away with anything!

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Globaly - very close to the southern most point of Canada
Posts: 445
Good Answers: 12
#28
In reply to #26

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 9:36 AM

There is a toll highway here that is privately run. It uses license detection to charge the fees (which are very high in my opinion). The crazy part is that if you don't pay then you can not re-new your license. Why a private corporation has the power to revoke your license is beyond me. Much less the idea that they have access to the license information in the first place.

__________________
-why bother doing it wrong when it will be anyway.......
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1160
Good Answers: 36
#4

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 10:14 AM

*looks around*

Oh crud! The camera saw me pick my wedgie!

It is annoying to think that the only safe place is in your home. Sometimes, not even there is safe. The worst part is - just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

This battle probably won't end in the publics favor. Sorry to disappoint, Sharkles.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 10:18 AM

Eh, I know. But, I am glad to know that people in the world are aware of this problem and are working towards bringing it to the public eye.

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
2
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1160
Good Answers: 36
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 10:26 AM

I think the public in general know what is going on, but are too lazy or too uncaring to do anything about it.

As much as I am an advocate for privacy, I am ambitiously lazy. If the laws change in our favor, great; if they don't, I will continue with my life. Unfortunately this is the attitude of a low of people.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#33
In reply to #7

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 11:34 AM

"...I am ambitiously lazy..."

Love that phrase!!!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 762
Good Answers: 9
#27
In reply to #4

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 9:00 AM

Remember the "TV" in 1984. How do we not know that the all digitals are not being used for invasion of privacy in the home?

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1160
Good Answers: 36
#31
In reply to #27

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 10:32 AM

Perhaps what the world needs is a group or society that can teach the public on how to detect such camera's and teach them how to take precautions to keep privacy private (I know perhaps a little redundant). Knowledge is power. What happens when encoding gets stronger for passwords? Hackers work harder against it. We need to fight with our knowledge and our uncanny ability to work around everything in our way. This is an obstacle and we need to find the knowledge and power to rise above it.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Netherlands - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 2703
Good Answers: 38
#38
In reply to #31

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 9:41 PM

i think it is about time to bring out the guillotine again to show the politicians where the real power lies, call it a pre-emptive strike

__________________
From the Movie "The Big Lebowski" Don't pee on the carpet man!
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Globaly - very close to the southern most point of Canada
Posts: 445
Good Answers: 12
#35
In reply to #27

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 1:33 PM

....when I was three I would not watch Sat morning TV in my underware because I thought they could see me. May be I was right????

__________________
-why bother doing it wrong when it will be anyway.......
Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1790
Good Answers: 87
#9

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 10:51 AM

Having just gone through hurricane Ike, I was at first surprised and then a bit troubled when I received an e-mail from a colleague in Asia who told me he was concerned for my safety and looked up my address in Google earth an got a image back that showed me in Houston in my backyard cleaning up fallen branches.

I wonder what he would of thought if I had taken that moment to pee in the back yard had the plumbing not been working?

Between CCTV and satellites, there is certainly no privacy outside your own home. It is only a small step to no privacy at all. 1984 anyone?

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 11:14 AM

1984 is right. That is a really creepy example of the type of surveillance that isn't necessary - thank you for sharing.

I was watching TV the other night and someone said "get me the satellite images for the past 24 hours" and I got creeped out thinking that whenever I leave my house, there is chance that I am being recorded somewhere. While the show was fictional, I think that some people probably really can access that type of information. Your example just proves that point.

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 578
Good Answers: 16
#11

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 11:40 AM

I'm sorry to say it but we're definately headed in the opposite direction. Government will just take more actions to spy on us whenever they can especially as new surveillance technology emerges.

New York state is starting to put RFID tags in drivers licenses. They say it will let you go to Canada or Mexico without a passport but its just one more way for the powers that be to keep tabs on you.

Just wait until 5 years from now when they have GPS chips inside everyones liscenses... or heads.

__________________
Kaplin
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1160
Good Answers: 36
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 12:19 PM

I agree with you. Phone tapping is just one indicator that government is getting to powerful. Freedom is changing from 'freedom to privacy' to 'freedom that the government allows you to have'. Freedom is taken for granted, it was really only a matter of time before government waltzed in and cut freedom short.

In a country where freedom is promised, do the people really have the power? It is times like these that make me shake my head 'no'.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#73
In reply to #11

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 9:08 PM

Micro wave a GPS chip in the liscense.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Defreestville, NY
Posts: 1072
Good Answers: 87
#13

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 1:57 PM

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/25/2537.asp

Scary. Time to ride a bike.

__________________
Charlie don't surf.
Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Engineering Fields - Software Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - DataRock 1.0

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 401
Good Answers: 3
#14

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 6:40 PM

Hi Sharkles - The late Tom Lantos, holocaust survivor and victim of government over-reach (putting it very mildly) himself, was my hero on this issue, when he shamed Yahoo! in a public session of congress (video was broadcast on C-SPAN) for helping the Chinese government lock-up a blogger critical of their policy. Not sure who's picked up the ball on this issue - maybe younger, more tech-savvy folks like Tim Berners-Lee, Moby, or Bono? You're definitely right to be concerned about this, in my view. Thanks for writing on this topic. - Larry

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Netherlands - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 2703
Good Answers: 38
#15

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 10:51 PM

The attendants will all be monitored!

__________________
From the Movie "The Big Lebowski" Don't pee on the carpet man!
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 382
Good Answers: 1
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/17/2008 11:42 PM

When you do get on their list:

Watch out, the sheer amount of weight they bring to bear on a person doing nothing is astounding. (Your opinions do matter, never know just who knows) And oh Yeh, those funny triangular & rectangular antennas that are sprouting up un every public pole are tracking RFID chips. Now embedded in just about everything, so 1984 is quite real I think.

And it's for our own good you know

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Netherlands - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 2703
Good Answers: 38
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 12:41 AM

As long as you do exactly what the government wants you to do, you have all the freedom in the world!

so what is the problem then?

__________________
From the Movie "The Big Lebowski" Don't pee on the carpet man!
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 382
Good Answers: 1
#34
In reply to #17

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 12:20 PM

Seems they want a good mannered sheep:

Do not want dissenting opinions on foreign policy, spending money, outright bribery, having foreign interests instead of national interests, feeding the war machine, education, gas taxes, smoke taxes, voting machine fraud, and many others.

What happens if I am not in agreement with their rape and pillage?

I get smacked down, probably earned some of it but OUCH:

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5275
Good Answers: 287
#18

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 3:50 AM

Looks like everyone else here agrees (sorry if I missed another dissenting voice). However I think I should point out that for each person who takes the trouble to talk and worry about this sort of thing: there are dozens who don't worry or care. As for me: I'm right on the other side of the fence. Every CCTV camera (and any other high tech. method of surveillance) gives me greater freedom to go about my legitimate business without fear.

I'm in the UK where we have more CCTV cameras (per person) than anywhere else. Although I don't think our current government is very good: I do believe that in general they have my best interests at heart. If I and a sizable number of others ever became convinced that the government were deliberately working against my best interests: then, it would be a trivial matter to disable most of the high tech. surveillance. In countries where I believe there are real problems with those in power it's the low tech. means (thugs) they use which prevent the empowerment of the people.

On a much less serious point: I am pleased that the supermarket gathers information on what I buy if it helps their marketing department to stock the stuff that I want.

__________________
We are alone in the universe, or, we are not. Either way it's incredible... Adapted from R. Buckminster Fuller/Arthur C. Clarke
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 72
Good Answers: 2
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 4:59 AM

Hi Randall,

If this spying is beneficial then perhaps you can explain the rise in violent crime.

The real issue here is power, as always information is power remember "In the Kingdom Of The Blind The One Eyed Man Is King"

As far as government power is concerned it is becoming increasingly apparent that in the UK and most other EU countrys we have a serious case of the tail wagging the dog.

We have government making promises that the people will be asked to vote on issues effecting our ability to pass and veto regulations from the EU then ignoring that promise. One wonders how they know we are so apathetic over issues such as this. Could it be that those monitored e-mails and phone taps were used?

If we only knew as much about the government as the government knows about us.

I personally will only ever pay in cash, I have no loyalty cards and frequently swap internal work passes with a collegue just to screw this avaricious desire for information.

Great feel better for that.

__________________
Life is terminal, No One Gets Out Alive, It is therefore better to travel than arrive
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5275
Good Answers: 287
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 5:46 AM

Hi exemmet,

If this spying is beneficial then perhaps you can explain the rise in violent crime.

There are hundreds of potential explanations: I'm reasonably certain that CCTV cameras aren't making it worse.

The real issue here is power, as always information is power remember "In the Kingdom Of The Blind The One Eyed Man Is King"

Who do you think is using this information to your detriment?

As far as government power is concerned it is becoming increasingly apparent that in the UK and most other EU countrys we have a serious case of the tail wagging the dog.

Agreed. Is this relevant?

We have government making promises that the people will be asked to vote on issues effecting our ability to pass and veto regulations from the EU then ignoring that promise.

Agreed. Is this relevant?

One wonders how they know we are so apathetic over issues such as this. Could it be that those monitored e-mails and phone taps were used?

You've got a bit of a point here, except that: I don't think they need to covertly monitor any communications to know what most people think. Extrapolating from the Irish (who have benefited from EU membership more than almost anyone else) vote should give a reasonable indication.

If we only knew as much about the government as the government knows about us.

The gutter press ensures that we know much more.

I personally will only ever pay in cash, I have no loyalty cards and frequently swap internal work passes with a collegue just to screw this avaricious desire for information.

I normally use cash because I think it saves me time.

What do you think the supermarkets use the information they get from the use of loyalty cards for?

Why do you think your work place might like to know where you are?

Great feel better for that.

Good. You remain happy in the belief that your screwing the system, and, I'll remain happy in my naive belief that not everyone is out to get me.

__________________
We are alone in the universe, or, we are not. Either way it's incredible... Adapted from R. Buckminster Fuller/Arthur C. Clarke
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 6:42 AM

Hi exemmet,

If this spying is beneficial then perhaps you can explain the rise in violent crime.

There are hundreds of potential explanations: I'm reasonably certain that CCTV cameras aren't making it worse.

The explanation in question is. Do CCTV cameras make it better patently not otherwise with the advent of these abominable things crime would have fallen and it has not, after all we are told that the reason for their inception was to reduce crime

The real issue here is power, as always information is power remember "In the Kingdom Of The Blind The One Eyed Man Is King"

Who do you think is using this information to your detriment?

Possibly not detrimental, perhaps you could indicate the good they do.

As far as government power is concerned it is becoming increasingly apparent that in the UK and most other EU countries we have a serious case of the tail wagging the dog.

Agreed. Is this relevant?

Extremely so with each minute reduction in freedom of either speech or action we are suffering death by a thousand cuts, freedom once taken is never returned. Ask any citizen of the USSR, China, North Korea, Nigeria, Cuba, Zimbabwe. All totalitarian and communist states rely on surveillance to control and subjugate their citizens

We have government making promises that the people will be asked to vote on issues effecting our ability to pass and veto regulations from the EU then ignoring that promise.

Agreed. Is this relevant?

As in the totalitarian states already mentioned, freedom of expression is reflected in the states ability to control and manipulate. Our politicos all already agree that if voting changed anything they would abolish it. The apathy demonstrated by the electorate indicates that we are far down the road already, indeed only a minority see the benefit of casting a vote already

One wonders how they know we are so apathetic over issues such as this. Could it be that those monitored e-mails and phone taps were used?

You've got a bit of a point here, except that: I don't think they need to covertly monitor any communications to know what most people think. Extrapolating from the Irish (who have benefited from EU membership more than almost anyone else) vote should give a reasonable indication.

As above covert surveillance and monitoring of information is the biggest asset of the creeps and spin doctors

If we only knew as much about the government as the government knows about us.

The gutter press ensures that we know much more.

Simple questions, if the press have the information why do we have "D" notices and the official secrets act, why do we have local authorities using anti terrorist legislation to prosecute garbage offences.

I personally will only ever pay in cash, I have no loyalty cards and frequently swap internal work passes with a colleague just to screw this avaricious desire for information.

I normally use cash because I think it saves me time.

What do you think the supermarkets use the information they get from the use of loyalty cards for?

Super markets will always do what is best for supermarkets and use this information to "guide" the gullible to their most prolific profit centre, loyalty cards are certainly not for the benefit of the customer

Why do you think your work place might like to know where you are?

Being honest and straight I am always where I should be, I do not need to be tracked or monitored as always we tend to place restrictions on all instead of tackling the wayward. It is PC to monitor rather than take issue with the lazy, work-shy and feckless.

Nobody is out to get me, they are out there to get us all my friend that is the point of restriction of freedom

Great feel better for that.

Good. You remain happy in the belief that your screwing the system, and, I'll remain happy in my naive belief that not everyone is out to get me.

__________________

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Engineering Fields - Software Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - DataRock 1.0

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 401
Good Answers: 3
#29
In reply to #18

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 9:49 AM

Hi Randall - I've felt for a while that it's a huge irony that the country where George Orwell did most of his writing would turn out to be a world leader in adopting the "surveillance culture." But NYC seems to follow London's lead on this, so maybe this is the way of the world. I read Orwell's 1984 in 1982 or so, while in high school, so he may have been off by 20 years or so. Not too bad for fiction. - Larry

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Globaly - very close to the southern most point of Canada
Posts: 445
Good Answers: 12
#24

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 8:25 AM

It will be tough to fight the information age. My thoughts are that there will be too much information. So much so that an average guy like me will just be ignored.

It's like walking down the street dressed like a 70's Elvis compared to jeans and a T-shirt. If you put yourself out there you will be noticed.

__________________
-why bother doing it wrong when it will be anyway.......
Reply
3
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#25

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 8:53 AM

To answer your three points:

  • Do they have reasonable demands?

Yes, in fact, I think the "demands" are minimal.

  • Will this movement be effective?

No, because the various governments will find it to their advantage to ignore this movement as long and as much as possible.

  • Are you concerned with the amount of surveillance in your country?

Extremely so, especially the so-called "Patriot Act".

Our founding fathers would have well-understood this, and I believe would have fought against it. Recall some pertinent quotes - "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."; "Those who would exchange freedom for a little safety are deserving of neither."; and "I know not what course others may choose, as for me, give me liberty, or give me death." Or at least a good tinfoil hat...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#30
In reply to #25

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 10:26 AM

Unfortunatelly, it seems you're right.

I've been playing with slogan's punctuation. It looks quite contoversial [just suiting the blog 's announcement]:

"Freedom! Not Fear 2008!" either "Freedom Not! Fear 2008." or even "Freedom? Not! Fear 2008!"

Sorry for some black humor. I'm voting by all my limbs for "Freedom".

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#32
In reply to #30

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 11:32 AM

Good humor, even if a trifle dark! Reminds me of what one of our greatest comedians (Red Skelton) once said about the importance of punctuation. Consider the difference a comma makes:

"What's that in the road ahead?" versus "What's that in the road, a head?"

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#43
In reply to #32

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 1:11 PM

One more buzz, what do you think of that?


Could these hats some improve ours privacy against Google map at least? I'm not sure of CCTV, but satellite survey might be complicated.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Canada - Member -

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 435
Good Answers: 4
#44
In reply to #43

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 1:24 PM

One of these should cover the CCTV part pretty well....

__________________
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away. - unknown.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#45
In reply to #44

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 1:38 PM

Certainly it should ... Though I suspect everyone could point one's finger out:"Wow! Look up! It's Mr Rick@cae goes there!"

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#46
In reply to #44

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 1:38 PM

YOWZAH! But it's all hat and no horse...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Netherlands - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 2703
Good Answers: 38
#63
In reply to #46

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/23/2008 8:40 PM

The hat needs only its surounding projected on then it is save maybe a sail over once house with a shabby house painted on it?

__________________
From the Movie "The Big Lebowski" Don't pee on the carpet man!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#39
In reply to #25

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 11:23 PM

Enviroman-

There may be things we disagree on, but this is not one of them. GA.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#42
In reply to #39

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 12:38 PM

Thanks - but I never thought we disagreed on all that much...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Engineering Fields - Software Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - DataRock 1.0

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 401
Good Answers: 3
#36

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 5:05 PM

Hi Sharkles - Breaking news? Just confirmed it from eff.org: a colleague of mine said the Electronic Frontier Foundation just launched a new lawsuit, related to the free-speech discussion running here, against several folks in the U.S. government. The timing is a little suspicious, along with everything else happening within the past month related to Wall Street and the banking situation here in the U.S., but definitely makes the political season interesting to follow. I suspect we'll be seeing more big stories like this right up 'till election day on November 4th. It's going to make for good TV and radio material, for sure. Thanks for letting me share this. - Larry

Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#41
In reply to #36

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 8:35 AM

Thanks Larry! I had briefly saw something about this yesterday, but hadn't gotten the details. As you said, I do think the timing is suspicious so I am interested to see how it pans out - and which candidate (if either) it ends up helping.

What concerns me most about this issue is that I think people are just accepting limits on things like free speech because they don't feel like they can do anything about it. In one of my grad. classes last night the professor asked us to look at an article that you may find interesting. While it doesn't spell out how Americans feel about surveillance and privacy issues specifically, it does talk about how people in the country are willing to let the government have more and more control over the "little things" - specifically the first amendment.

08 Survey Finds Most Americans Would Accept Limits on Some Freedoms

If we keep letting basic freedoms like privacy and free-speech go, then I'm curious/afraid of what the future holds.

__________________
Sharkles
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 382
Good Answers: 1
#47
In reply to #41

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 1:40 PM

Heh Heh:

I have been acting like there are no restrictions; you might be surprised what comes out of the woodwork at you. They mean to be listened to, and dissenting opinions are not welcome. Herd on the plane the other day about how the "Thought Police" were clamping down.

I Dun-Know if you give them an inch, they will assume you have given them the whole mile. It's best to go on like normal I think. Throwing you in jail for what you think or say will have a very negative effect on their big plans.

Bet when they clamp down for real there will be indoctrination camps.

Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Engineering Fields - Software Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - DataRock 1.0

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 401
Good Answers: 3
#49
In reply to #41

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 2:51 PM

Hi Sharkles - Thanks for the survey - will take a look at. It's Internet freedom expressed in blogs like this one here that keep governments everywhere honest. What happened for democracy as a result of Internet blogging in Burma within the past few years is one example that gives me hope of a brighter future for global free speech. - Larry

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#37

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/18/2008 7:02 PM

And if you think you're not being "monitored" in your home, think again.

During my stint working for the "Gubment", I had access to several little bits of hardware: a laser mounted microphone system, that when bounced off of windows could record every word spoken in the house. A "bug" the size of grain of rice that could track you anywhere.

Any game console with internet access, for multiplayer games, has monitoring equipment that can, when accessed by the "wrong" people, record events in the home even when turned off.

Folks, my info is ten years out of date. Do you think something better isn't already out there?

I, for one, will never allow some little weasel of a public servant to put any chip in me with my knowledge. If he tries, they will have to pick up what is left of him with a sponge.

I'm climbing off my soapbox now.

Blue

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#40

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 12:05 AM

I almost hope that the governments show their true colors and try to repress these people so that there will be an even greater reaction to the erosion of freedom. I think that they will be ignored though and the repressive politicians will continue toward complete control.

A while back there was a thread about traffic cameras being misused as devices to provide revenue rather than to make driving safer. They were shown in the U. K. and in Australia. Sudden drops in speed limits with the cameras hidden behind signs and such, set up speed traps in places where there was no need to slow down. Angry drivers collared them with flaming tires or used bullets on them. Could angry hackers do the same to some of these devices and programs?

As long as the lack of privacy goes unnoticed and unresisted the general public will probably remain oblivious to it. Some who would gladly become slaves if they were guaranteed security for life will even applaud the lack of privacy.

"I despise the present government here in [fill in the country] and we need to mount a campaign to kick the bums out", is in an e-mail or spoken aloud within range of a cell phone. Within hours the door slams open and men in black make sure everyone present dies by "accident". End of opposition.

I hope to survive to post again.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Charter Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts
Posts: 1946
Good Answers: 73
#48

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/19/2008 1:51 PM

I was reading in the local papers in The People's Republic yesterday that they want to fire the toll-takes on the Mass. Pike and install a system that photo's your plate, and send you a bill in the mail.

This just sound so creepy to me, ( they may actually do this now, they say they do it only on cars that don't pay, and they do track you down with a hefty fine).

What would be next. They could easily calculate you travel time and issue a speeding ticket!

__________________
I go into every human encounter expecting to be framed for a crime I didn't commit. Dilbert, 2013
Reply
Power-User
Canada - Member -

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 435
Good Answers: 4
#50
In reply to #48

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 12:36 PM

"What would be next. They could easily calculate you travel time and issue a speeding ticket!"

Hi Bricktop,

That's been done before too. There is (was?) a national park in the province of Quebec, Canada that had only one road going through it (no intersection, etc...). You would register at the entrance (later done electronically) and again at the exit. If your time was too short, it was an automatic ticket !!

I don't know if this setup is still in operation (haven't been there in 20 years or so).

regards,

R.

__________________
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away. - unknown.
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#51
In reply to #50

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 1:11 PM

If your time was too short, it was an automatic ticket...

Hello, Rick@cae

Hmm-m.. I can't remember that anywhere were placed foreseen fines for average speed. Isn't here a contradiction?

Let's consider a distance 100 km. In supposition that allowed speed is 100 km per hour person#1 has driven all distance keeping speed 105 km/h. Exceeded 5 km/h fits a tolerance of speedometer accuracy. Person#2 has run short section of this distance[for instance 10 km] keeping F1-speed 300 km/h then stopped for pi..ing off and taking a breath and continued his nice jorney as low abiden citizen with turtle-speed 30 km/h. Who of them two drived more dangerously for traffic safety? Who will be fried?

I so doubt of automatic ticket here. Do not be so worry.

Good luck.

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Charter Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts
Posts: 1946
Good Answers: 73
#52
In reply to #51

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 2:00 PM

caramba, it has little to do with safety, but everything to do with raising revenue.

__________________
I go into every human encounter expecting to be framed for a crime I didn't commit. Dilbert, 2013
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#53
In reply to #52

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 2:11 PM

Ok they can fine those who drive too slowly as well?.. As it is not GREENY! I'm scared if some of them could read this comment

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - Charter Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts
Posts: 1946
Good Answers: 73
#54
In reply to #53

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 2:18 PM

In my home state of Vermont, a minimum speed limit is also posted. On a highway with a posted speed limit of 65mph, there will be another sigh under it that states "minimum 45mph". However, I know of no one to ever get a ticket for going too slow. NOBODY goes that slow.

__________________
I go into every human encounter expecting to be framed for a crime I didn't commit. Dilbert, 2013
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#55
In reply to #54

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 2:36 PM

We have such road signs too. It was a joke from my side but I'm really afraid now as since there will be placed such devices [for fixing travel time] we as drivers will be fined for underspeeding as well . I'm wondering, whether will be taken as justification for me as human being, to get a roadside cafe for a cup of coffee and some meal either it adversely affects judge's verdict for additional methan producing?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - Charter Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts
Posts: 1946
Good Answers: 73
#56
In reply to #55

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 2:45 PM
__________________
I go into every human encounter expecting to be framed for a crime I didn't commit. Dilbert, 2013
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Netherlands - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 2703
Good Answers: 38
#64
In reply to #54

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/23/2008 8:43 PM

yes the amish do

__________________
From the Movie "The Big Lebowski" Don't pee on the carpet man!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Canada - Member -

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 435
Good Answers: 4
#57
In reply to #51

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 3:27 PM

Hi Caramba,

I doubt it is still like that today. But what I said is true. Since you were in deep woods with nothing but trees in sight for about 200km, most drivers would not be tempted to stop. Those who were speeding (and a lot of guys would go through that park to "try" their car/bike) would calculate how much time they theoretically needed to cross and would stop for a few cigarettes or redo the same strip of road a few times (racing) and then eventually go through the exit just in time for an average speed at the limit. I remember a lot of fatal accidents in that park.

And to answer your question about who would get fried: obviously, the cops eventually caught on to the plot and would question anybody that took too much time since they would probably have miscalculated their average time. I remember talking to one of the Provincial cops about the situation and he told me that they'd use their judgement as to what kind of vehicule would come through too slow (i.e. a family car full of kids would not be questionned but the 22 year old in his Camaro that would come through with an average speed 20km/h under the limit would be).

EDIT: The park joins Quebec city to Lac-St-Jean and there was a booth at either end where you would register. "Automatic" was a matter-of-speech...

__________________
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away. - unknown.
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#58
In reply to #57

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 4:12 PM

Hi again Rick@cae,

I do accept your arguments partly as they[lawmakers] of course could invent such a controversial measure how to fine drivers for average overspeeding getting measured over relatively long distance. But I'm sure that any thinking man/lady can protect oneself simply by the reason that most time of this so called measurements he/she was out of direct instrumental control. Between two checkpoints anything would happen up to "some alien's starship picked me up and tossed me at another end of road way in no time". Staying before judge I have the same weighful word as stying next me policeman. Haven't I? Any authorities like the idea to put on people a lot of new fines for the sake of their gain. But they are not an complete idiots[ at least I hope so] to provoke obvious riots and public outrages this way.

That's why in all countries only an instantenous instrumental data of speed measurings with photo snap could be attached as evidence to case. It's pretty reasonable as overspeeding in no time period can cause a devastating accident [no matter how slowly and how long we drived before and after].

Returning to blog topic. Of course I do hate any idea that someone [govt especially] could track all my movements when- and wherever.

Best regards,

caramba

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#59
In reply to #57

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/20/2008 4:27 PM

one more buzz,

I have no any doubts of what you said was true. But if I were those guy who was accussed for overspeeding in forest road. I could be counter argue in the court that method which policeman applied to charge me hadn't been adopted in state deeds and acts. What has he used as instrument? His watches? They went wrong! How he collected obtained data? Writting its down at his notebook? He wrote them day before I apperared on the road and etc.

We have to fight for ours rights using all legal methods.

Nonetheless, of course, I am against any overspeeding.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#60
In reply to #48

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/21/2008 12:34 AM

Then there is the problem of identifying the driver so you can fine the right person, put points on their license or send them to jail. What happens if the driver of the car is not the owner? Could be the ne'er do well brother-in-law, cousin, friend, daughter's boyfriend, neighbor or a thief was driving and the law comes down on you. Where is the justice?

I complained to the police about a semi that ran me off the road. I had the license number, company name, trailer number and the phone number of the company. The Highway Patrol told me that if I didn't see the driver's face they couldn't do anything. A lawyer in the Midwest challenged his wife's traffic ticket because she had an alibi and they could not identify the driver of his wife's car [as it could have been any one of several teens who had borrowed the car] much less say it was his wife who was driving.

Now they are taking photos which show the face of the driver.

Big Brother is watching you!

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Charter Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts
Posts: 1946
Good Answers: 73
#61
In reply to #60

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/21/2008 11:49 AM

"Big Brother is watching you!"

You got that right.

We could check with our UK friends, but I believe they use traffic camera's everywhere for speeding. I don't think they take a pix of your face. Something like your responsible for you vehicle no matter who's driving.

__________________
I go into every human encounter expecting to be framed for a crime I didn't commit. Dilbert, 2013
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#62
In reply to #61

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/22/2008 4:58 PM

She went to court. They were going to fine her and put points on her license. She pled not guilty and her husband challenged them to punish her for someone else's crime. Since she could prove she was not driving the car, the ticket based on the photo was for the wrong person, therefore they could not fine her or put the points on her license. I think they just tossed it out as something they couldn't prove. Based on the numbers, most people just went ahead and paid, it was not worth pursuing to even find the actual driver.

It is a revenue producing scheme, since most people just pay, knowing that they were driving and not knowing that the police have to prove who was driving. Good little sheep.

They can't just punish the owner for someone else's actions. Of course that doesn't mean there will be justice in other areas. Governments and police have a tendency to be heavy-handed and overreact.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: KnoxTN
Posts: 1485
Good Answers: 6
#65

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 7:38 AM

Sharkles : I posted the question below on a page linked from the promotion of your cause in Washington DC.

You are promoting "Freedom Not Fear 2008" and by coming to this page you or others have recorded my IP address. Is that NOT in contradiction to the very purpose of your Post on CR4 and the cause that you promote?

__________________
Do Nothing Simply When a Way Can be Found to Make it Complex and Wonderful
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#66
In reply to #65

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 8:46 AM

Well, you've got me there.

Like anything I write about, I chose this topic because it's an interesting take on a controversial topic. Since I write for the internet, my posts (and I) can never be private. So, in this case - yes, the medium is contradictory to the message. However, I felt that the cause was interesting enough to share with CR4 readers whom are also internet users. Also, the movement is largely European - and since I don't know much about what privacy and surveillance are like in other parts of the world, I was hoping to get some commentary about that.

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#67
In reply to #66

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 9:37 AM

Give a re-listen to the song "For What It's Worth" (link below) by Buffalo Springfield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9PiEgYYUU

Then go get yourself a nice tinfoil hat and be safe.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#68
In reply to #67

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 10:21 AM

Nice song!

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#69
In reply to #68

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 11:23 AM

Nice hat!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1160
Good Answers: 36
#70
In reply to #68

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 12:42 PM

rofl

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#71
In reply to #66

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 1:28 PM

I don't know much about what privacy and surveillance are like in other parts of the world, I was hoping to get some commentary about that.

I so hope it won't be so

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#72
In reply to #71

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

09/30/2008 8:28 PM

caramba- Considering your location, I hope yours is not as pictured.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#74
In reply to #72

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/01/2008 7:22 AM

I hope so too.

but life is becoming very interesting here in terms of well known Chinese proverb

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#75
In reply to #74

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/01/2008 8:38 PM

Oh! Hope you can change locations before it gets too interesting.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#76
In reply to #75

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/02/2008 9:57 AM

It's impossible to escape out of fate. I hope it won't be too interesting, fortunately for my place of birth all looks like as commonplace :). Enjoy you freedom for me too. Good luck.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#79
In reply to #72

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/29/2008 11:32 AM

What do you think? May we rely on that? On my opinion: too good to be true. But I hope.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - Charter Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - Charter Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts
Posts: 1946
Good Answers: 73
#80
In reply to #79

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/29/2008 11:38 AM

Interesting. However, I'm afraid it's just "lip service", to placate criticism from the public. Faced with the prospect of being shutdown somewhere, and the subsequent loss of revenue, they'll cave, as they have in the past.

__________________
I go into every human encounter expecting to be framed for a crime I didn't commit. Dilbert, 2013
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#81
In reply to #80

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/29/2008 12:05 PM

I agreed, it's likely a PR action. Especially after how that a great three had already contributed to PP.

Yes, the only weak hope is the "Business case" mentioned in article . If they decided that it brings them profit, they would do something for privacy protection somehow somewhere.

Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#82
In reply to #79

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/29/2008 12:21 PM

We may rely on our own thoughts and deeds. We can hope for the best from all else, and prepare for the worst just in case.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 753
Good Answers: 8
#83
In reply to #82

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/29/2008 12:40 PM

Yes, Enviro. For me internet is practically the only mean to get more or less objective information which I should to digest by myself and then to rely on my own.

That's why any hint for such kind of move gives me something regardless my second I keeps telling me:"Do not believe at this cr..p, caramba!!!!!

Here's Russian saying: Hope is the last to die ;).

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Defreestville, NY
Posts: 1072
Good Answers: 87
#77

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/08/2008 1:21 PM

It's an uphill battle and sometimes you just want to give up but there are tactics you can use. Some are mentioned here : http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/10/07/2112249.shtml

__________________
Charlie don't surf.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#78
In reply to #77

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

10/08/2008 4:35 PM

Interesting read, but the author makes a very relevant point - staying away from social networking sites, etc. can leave people out of touch with the rest of their social base. I know this may not be applicable for every age group; but as a 20-something, all of my friends and I communicate via some kind of electronic means. I've been an avid AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) user since I was 14, and was part of the first facebook movement (back when it was restricted to college students).

Since I was using these things before I became aware of privacy issues, it's frustrating sometimes because I know that if I were to abandon them now then I would have a much harder time keeping in contact with friends and family. So for me, even though I am concerned about privacy, these kinds of sites are a necessary evil for me.

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#84
In reply to #78

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

11/01/2008 11:22 AM

Ever wonder how people stayed in touch with friends and family before the Internet? Those ways still work, even if a bit slower. Landline phones, mail and face-to-face contact provides much more privacy even if a bit slower and it is much more personal than an e-mail or text message. All those sites are not necessary, just easy, and are likely to become evil as governments begin to watch everything we do so they can control us.

Try more actual personal contact and your relationships will be stronger. It is likely that your face, your voice and your thoughts on paper will mean more to people than ephemeral electronic signals.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Popular Science - Paleontology - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Genetics - New Member Popular Science - Biology - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Nevernever as much as possible, Earth when I have no choice.
Posts: 665
Good Answers: 11
#85
In reply to #84

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

11/01/2008 6:08 PM

Good Answer.

Dragon

__________________
Ignorance is the beginning of knowledge. Heresy is the beginning of wisdom. The ignorant heretic is the wisest of all.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Netherlands - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 2703
Good Answers: 38
#86
In reply to #84

Re: Stop Watching Me: Freedom Not Fear 2008

11/03/2008 7:20 PM

Landline phones? i have heard of those

__________________
From the Movie "The Big Lebowski" Don't pee on the carpet man!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Reply to Blog Entry 86 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (3); april05 (4); Bricktop (6); caramba (14); dbdwoods (3); Dragonsfarm (1); EnviroMan (8); Epke (6); exemmet (1); gdevine (4); Jaxy (5); julie (3); Kaplin (1); qaqcpipeman (2); Randall (2); Rick@cae (3); SavvyExacta (1); Sharkles (8); Steve S. (1); stevem (2); Stirling Stan (1); Taganan (7)

Previous in Blog: Forensics: Junk Science or Reliable Means of Conviction?   Next in Blog: Putting a Little Scantegrity Into U.S. Politics

Advertisement