Where are the Women (Engineers)?

I HAVE SEEN THIS QUESTION PUT FORTH IN MANY FORMS. I HERE POLITICIANS, EDUCATORS, EMPLOYERS, AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC SAY THAT WE GET OUR CHILDREN MORE INTERESTED IN MATH AND SCIENCE. WHICH I BELIEVE IS THE "POLITICALLY CORRECT" ANSWER. HOWEVER, IN MY OPINION IT IS THE MANTRA OF A SOCIETY WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

ANY YOUNG PERSON TRYING TO DEGREE IN THOSE FEILDS WILL SOON FIND OUT THEY ARE ALMOST COMPLETELY ON THEIR OWN.

I SEE NO PROGRAMS ESTABLISHED FOR SCHOLARSHIP OR FINANCIAL ASSITANCE IN THESE FEILDS ANY MORE THAN FOR A LIBERAL ARTS OR GENERAL EDUCATION DEGREE. NOT THAT THESE ARN'T WORTHY PURSUITS, BUT IF WE NEED PEOPLE EDUCATED IN CERTAIN FIELDS THEN THERE MUST BE INCENTIVES TO MAKE THOSE PEOPLE WANT TO ENDURE THE STRAIN OF A DIFFICULT DEGREE.

I KNOW A STANDARD ANSWER IS THAT IT PAYS WELL ONCE YOU GET IT BUT THAT FACT HARDLEY STANDS UP TO AN 18 - 21 YEAR OLD STUDENT, DO TO THIER LACK OF LIFE EXPERIENCE. ESPECIALLY IN TODAYS TIME WHERE FINANCIAL ASSITANCE HAS DROPPED THROUGH THE FLOOR.

I am a common aircraft mechanic and I make $30,000 a year more than most of the engineers I work with, I would like to be an engineer but I won't spend the money and time getting a degree so I can take a pay cut when I'm done. I'll just keep on playing on my CAD at home. I think that explains the problem.

Hi

A story, my daughter, some 25+ years ago was going through school and advised the teaching staff that she wanted to study Maths at university.

Shock, Horror, why not a nice bit of Social work? and similar, anything but Maths careers were apparently avaiable but not Maths.

She persisted, got a good Maths entry, took a University degree at Warwick, and took up a Mathematics career in a major Research establishment.

But why the problem at school - this would have been repeated at most schools across the UK at that time.

So the UK has, like the USA, has taken its women away from good careers in Maths, Physics and related subjects.

Partly, I believe this is to do with a dumbing down of school work, too much multiple choice and too little work on understanding the situations that people encounter.

We do not have enough engineers available today in the UK, certainly and quite probably in the USA. It is seen as a hard choice, and if you are not supported by the teaching staff what can you expect?

Every profession needs a good gender balance to obtain the classical mix of skills that come from a good gender balance.

At the time that this was happening I was desperately trying to improve the numbers and gender balance of the professional staff in a major UK company - it was very hard work with visits to many universities, setting up welcome events for students and so on.

And then, when we did get the numbers in I started an MSc course sponsored by the company with in house teaching on a Friday afternoon as a starter.

I believe that we need a good strong core of engineers and associated trades to do the work that we must equip ourselves for for the future, whatever that may bring. Current problems warn us not to rely on finance as our core future - we need enginees to build a future.

Sleepy

I graduated college in '04. From 1999 to 2004 I only met two women who were majoring in Engineering programs at the two colleges that I attended. Whenever I talked to them about their futures the conversation would always lead to a story about a member of their family or of the faculty who had recently suggested that they should change majors to Safety or Architecture. Everyone wants to protect these young women rather than encouraging them to give them the confidence that they need to succeed.

I have kept in touch with one of the two young women. She worked as a Manufacturing engineer for four years then got a job teaching basic electrical engineering theory at a vocational school. She has been doing this for 3 years now and loves her job.

Through school and my career, I have worked with several women engineers. All were as competent as any male engineer and one or two were flat-out, hands-down extraordinary. But not one exhibited the passion for engineering I personally feel and see in other male engineers. Not one ever jumped at the chance to strap on a tool belt and tear down a piece of equipment or oversee a field installation. Not one that I have kept in contact with is still working as an engineer. Most have moved to sales, administration or teaching. I do not know if this is unique to women in engineering (and perhaps other technical fields) or if women in general show this trend in all careers.

CSM Engineer,

The really interesting note in your response was " Not one ..is still working as an engineer"

I do not know of any, either.

But do they get the encouragement, the mentoring that the guys do; and are there enough of them to get "into the stats"? I have one posible who may still be in engineering - I will check. All the others who I either employed directly or indirectly have moved on or out.

Perhaps the break to have children allows the chance to move vocations and that is enough?

I have one female colleague who has jumped at opportunity to move to art and sculpture, in particular. And that is without children!

Sleepy

CSM,

I am currently in the field engineering, and have been for my entire career. I felt that I should make a statement on behalf of my female colleagues, as there has been only speculation from the posts that I have read here.

Personally, I love tearing apart the mechanicals and making sure that the processes works when I am done, but alas, there comes a time in all womens' careers when they have to make the decision to continue on with their current career path or to alter it to allow the move into their family life. I am at this point myself, and have opted to go for the family, which closes many doors for me career-wise. Since I started this career, my work has kept me out of town, and away from those I love, so for me to pursue a family, I must give up this aspect of my career which leaves me with not much more than sales or teaching for local opportunities as office engineering is quite limited. It is not necessarily the direction that I wish to take my career, but it is a choice that I must make to pursue other goals I have in life. Upon my return to the workforce after my child is born, I wish to remain as technically involved as possible, for that is what I thrive on.

I will not say that this is the case for all other females, some just may feel it is time to move on entirely. I feel that this may shed some insight to what they may face and must choose from to continue in their field.

Thanks for listening.

Tiphyn

Tiphyn,

Thank you for your input! You are correct, most of the statements made here have been speculation (as I hope was made clear when they were posted) and I appreciate some first-hand perspective from a female engineer.

It is refreshing to hear that there are women engineers that enjoy "getting their hands dirty". I believe that the hands-on aspect is as important to being a successful engineer as any other skill.

I certainly acknowledge that there is an inherent disparity in the burdens placed on men and women when it comes to caring for a family, but if this is the major force driving women out of engineering careers, then the question remains: "Why do women drop out of engineering at such a high rate when compared to other fields?" You cite travel as a main concern. I have held engineering positions that required much travel and others that required little or no travel. Sales (one of the main areas women engineers seem to migrate to) nearly always requires much more travel than I have ever done as an engineer. My sister-in-law is a teacher and seems to be always traveling to some conference or other continuing-ed opportunity. I agree that excessive travel will prohibit successfully raising a family, but that should only affect consideration of certain engineering positions, not the entire field. In the case, as you describe, limited office engineering positions exist within a specific geographic area, then I sympathize with your difficult choice. It is no easy thing to be forced to choose between two passions. But, I am not clear on why this should be a wide-spread issue; nearly every manufacturing facility of any size has an on-site engineering position that requires little to no travel.

So in my mind, I am still am searching for what, in general, makes engineering different than other fields for long-term female retention.

Regards,

CSM Engineer

Dear CMS,

Unfortunately, I don't believe that we will be able to find a "general" reason which will cover all situations for female engineers leaving the field all together. Due to so many variables, it would be most difficult to generalize this. One aspect to this situation that may make it seem larger, may be that with such few female engineers to start with, when a few decide to leave, it seems that they are all disappearing. (In my province, there is approximately 5 - 6% female presence in Engineering)

As mentioned before, the travel as reason to change directions, is more to my personal situation and career facet. Geography for each individual will provide different opportunities/disadvantages for each person, also depending on what aspect of the field they have situated themselves in, in their career.

I thank you for your understanding and support.

I wish all the best to you, in your search for the answers you are looking for.

Tiphyn

The lack of female engineers is , in my opinion, due to a lack of suitable male engineering breeding stock. Women are attracted to fields where the men aren't all dorks.

As an aside - we've just moved into new digs here at Johnson Space Center. Our building has only one restroom, which has been converted to a "unisex" restroom by the addition of a "UNISEX" sign on the door.

The reason there is only one restroom is because our building was originally built as a machine shop back in the 1960's - thus there was no need for a women's restroom.

Maybe women would be attracted to engineering if they made a collective effort to demand a little self respect. The medical industry certainly has achieved this. After all, a hundred years ago the doctors were more like butchers than the fine men of science that they are today.

Modern medicine is truly an amazing industry. Becoming a doctor takes a lot of talent and nerve. A lot of students are flushed out of Med School before they far enough along to become dangerous. Engineers, however, welcome everybody including all of those who have no backbone. And, thanks to all of the spineless engineers and pushy and greedy business owners, we are considered as just another asset like the desk or the trash can.

We all enjoy the technologies developed by engineers but the engineers hardly ever reap the benefits they create. Perhaps this is a fault of the universities. Why on earth would a woman want to become just another scumbag engineer. There are a lot more rewarding professions out their than engineering. Perhaps they realize that becoming an engineer is little more than becoming an "industrial whore" (technical term - sorry if it offends the delicate).