Welding Certification Fraud

Presumably those people who argue that engineers don't need any formal university level training, will now argue that anyone who can do a bit of welding is equivalent to a trained certified welder.

i just want to bring it to Cr4 members notice i receive average one offer a month to pay and get certified in any field of engineering for a sum of couple of 100s of pound or Australian $ &assured certification in number of engineering fields and bag big assignments in west and USA

crm

I don't know what's all the fuss is about?

This article is about nothing other than trivialising if not insulting people with good skill or experiences and praising the often incompetents with certificates.

Last summer I just happened to to work on a building site in London where all the welders had to be coded and have their certificates valid (updated).

The interesting part was one of them the welders had his certificate recently renewed and was also a hot favourite until one day the leading-hand, who was just another welder, noticed several key beams' joints in the basement looked ugly but worse, upon close inspection they were all poorly fused, especially the overhead ones. This has got the management so worried that in a hurry they had to call back a fortnight earlier layed off welder (dismissed on the ground for not having his certificate updated due to his financial circumstances) to rectify the mistakes of the TITAN (who, according to him, was doing further training to improve his chances', he said).

The certification of a tradesman has never been more important than these days because most of the key people are incompetent and poorly trained, often straight out of school with barely any experience.

These sort of engineers and trades people came about since the cold war as massive retrenchments started and contractors often were/are getting sizable projects through the 'who you know and not what you know' scheme.

The results are getting more nd more obvious now, nearly 2decades on, as many of the college workshop supervisors themselves often poorly trained, isn't that insane?

The old saying 'where did you earn or buy your qualifications' is hardly relevant anymore for these basic facts.

I can also remember, when I used to apply for a coded welding job, that having a certificate was mainly to shut the union guy's mouth however, passing the test was a must!

Correct.

In fact a lot of good welders refuse to get certifications because they make more money then those that have certification.

There is no law that requires welders be certified. It's only those that require the services of a welder that require the certification.

But when someone gets certified they have to pay fees and be bonded.

you are mentioning about welders and welding here in this part of the world you will find Architects,Structural engineers and MEP consultants messing every building they design and go Scot free all the way to bank to deposit their fee collected by Cut paste technology and we have largest number of laws in force to avoid such professional crimes!

crm

Certification systems are definitely not perfect. A PE is no guarantee of a good or even competent engineer. I've been a PE for years, and I know many PE's who are fine engineers, but I have also encountered ones that I wouldn't use for a doorstop. Recently, I listened with amusement as one of my most junior engineers (~3 yrs exp) carefully explained the difference between 'stress relieving' and 'stress analysis' to a 20+ year project manager who was a PE in mechanical engineering.

Company where I had worked one of the field welders told me the company forged papers that they where ASME certified shop. And I believed him. When I started, they were doing heat exchangers, and on the tag it stated that they were ASME weld certified, and all they did was have the welders take and pass a 6G weld test.

But since they did not have a stamp, I had them remove any reference that had ASME on the ratings tag or any thing else for that matter.

I did this until I got the shop certified to carry a valid ASME "U", "R" and "PP" stamp.

And its not that hard to check to see if the company is ASME certified. As far as check, one normally would not think that a company would lie about that, until something happens.

phoenix911

In the USA and Canada there is in place programs for the certification of welders, instructors, and inspectors. ASTM, AWS, UPI, ASME all have programs and specifications that have been long established. Until relatively recent times, welder certification did not travel with the welder. For a simple fee of around $400.00, each applicant can be certified for the individual company. If the welding is critical, it is near negligent to accept a document as evidence of ability. In short it is the responsibility of the contractor to establish certification. AWS ASTM API all have data bases of certification of inspectors and requirements for renewal. Certified Welding Inspectors can come to the job site and run certification tests on your welders. Contact the American Welding Society for those available in your area. Check their credentials also. You should know what specifications you need to weld to. Some industries have unusual requirements. We required a 1G, 2F, 3G, 6G unlimited .052 mig. Less than 2% of the applicants could sucessfully perform this test. Add an operator photo along with your certification records.

"Less than 2% of the applicants could successfully perform this test. "

This is what I meant before 'to pass the test was a must' because no good just to have an updated certificate if your man cannot do the job to satisfaction.

It is the contractor's responsibility to make sure the job is done rite and I remember one time even the welding supervisors came under scrutiny when the job was a critical one nd the majority of them had also failed their test. There was no alternative but admit defeat as the test was carried out by an certified lab and only the good ones (not the best) could survive.

ASTM, AWS, UPI, ASME all have programs and specifications that have been long established. Until relatively recent times, welder certification did not travel with the welder. For a simple fee of around $400.00,

Of course, but if you dig a little deeper, the bylaws of ASME, you can not use, label, install and sell any equipment with the label on it certifying the its is a ASME vessel, even though you have certified the welders by ASME, THAT is only part of it and a small part at that. Your shop is not certified nor do you have the reference material or traceability for the construction of pressure vessels. That is stated quite plainly.

And can not only be liable for forging documents, but also punitive damages.

phoenix911

Absolutely true.

Certification? Does welder have to be certified in order to conduct welding projects? Maybe, having a certificate as a welder it very important but you can do welding even without this certification. Only the big companies are maybe asking for a certified welder to insure that the construction and the operation are well done. The welder they will get is sure should be trained well and should also knowledgeable enough for the improvement of their business. I think I also give some information regarding to that issue. Hope this can be help. Thank you and God bless.

There is no legal requirement for welders to be certified. A lot of welders are making a good living without certification.

I don't understand why companies hiring welders, even day labor, and do not look over the shoulder of the welder while he makes his first weld. Presumably on a piece of scrap or weld test coupon. An examiner with any experience at all can tell within the first ten seconds if the man can weld or not. Why would an steel erector put their reputation on the line and risk the lives of thousands of people by accepting a welder's piece of paper that says he is certified in some position on some material? Where is the engineer, foreman, other workers, on this job? I realize that there is a code among union workers but in our shop it did not relate to poor workmanship.

Welding is an honorable field. Most true welders take pride in the welds they make and the structures they weld on. Weld failure due to improper technique and inability is not an option and is not tolerated.

We manufacture large machines that process fruit in packing houses. We get temporaries in all the time that say they can weld. We've even trained fabricators to weld.

We don't just take them and put them on a station and let them hang themselves. They are giving something to weld to show what they can do before we put them to welding actual parts. We first give them easy assignments then work them up to more complicated framework.

We also bring in trainers to give instruction for welding stainless steel.