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Magnetic Levitation

Posted February 26, 2009 12:43 PM by masu

G'day folks,

It's a while since I started a thread and it's a bit off track for the blog but it does involve a mode. I have been working feverously on my latest project which is the construction of a 1/32 scale model of the Apollo Command, Service and Lunar Modules and the Saturn V launch vehicle.

I will start a detailed threads on the model as I get the various modules finished but for the moment I would like to discuss how I plan to display the Apollo spacecraft.

The plan is to utilize a magnetic levitation device like the one on the right that in conjunction with a rare earth magnet can suspend up to about a 1 kg mass beneath it. The model is primarily constructed from 200 gm-2 cardboard so it weights bugger all and if I position a NeFeB magnet in the model so it's slightly above the centre of gravity it shouldn't have any problem holding it up.

To sense the position of the model I have built an ultrasonic proximity detector kit that returns a voltage signal that is directly proportional to the position of the model. I also intend to mount a couple of hall effect sensors on the electromagnet that can be used to directly measure the strength of the magnetic field.

To control all this I intend to feed it all into a PICkit 2 microcontroller that will control the electromagnet.

If this all works I would ultimately like to animate the system so that the lunar module starts off on the base then lifts off and lands again.

So far I have found numerous sites out there that discuss different approaches to magnetic levitation but as far as I can see they all use analogue circuitry rather than a microcontroller. To me it seems a little strange as the sites I have looked at state that you can't just use a proportional control loop. This is because you need to take into account the velocity of the object being suspended not just its position beneath the magnet. Getting a differential/proportional control loop working with analogue components isn't that easy whereas with a microcontroller setting up PID (Proportional Integral Differential) control loops is relatively simple. It's also a darn side easier to reprogram a microcontroller than it is to rehash an analogue feedback loop, especially a PID one.

My question is, has anybody ever tried setting up a magnetic levitation system based on a microcontroller and if so what were the end results?

Regards masu.

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#1

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/26/2009 1:00 PM

has anybody ever tried setting up a magnetic levitation system based on a microcontroller and if so what were the end results?

I'm sorry I havn't ... but it sure as hell sounds fun and V interesting. I'd have thought that by pulsing the electromagnet you could stop it running away with itself, basically pwm it?

Obviously try it with a paper cube first not the precious model.

Del

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 5:25 AM

G'day Dell,

· I'm sorry I havn't ... but it sure as hell sounds fun and V interesting. I'd have thought that by pulsing the electromagnet you could stop it running away with itself, basically pwm it?

I came to pretty much the same conclusion on the use of PWM especially since I plan to utilize a microcontroller. The only thing I'm a little worried about is the RFI that you can get by driving thumping great coils with what is for all intense and purposes a square wave.

However, part of the model is constructed from cardboard that is coated with aluminium so if I do have problems with RFI I can build a small enclosure out of it and earth the metallic finish to form a shield.

I finished building the ultrasonic distance measuring unit last night and surprise, surprise it worked perfectly measuring the distance to the model on the first attempt. Currently it utilizes a LED that varies in intensity as the position of the model changes. Hopefully all I will need to do is pick up the voltage it uses to drive the LED and feed it into the microcontroller's analogue to digital converter.

Regards, masu.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 9:54 AM

One thing you may want to look into is using a Digital to Analog converter to drive a voltage to current circuit. You could then use this to drive the electromagnet portion of your levitation system. The DA converter is an easily accessed circuit and may even be built into the microcontroller you are using. The Voltage to Current circuit is also very simple and can be built with an Op Amp and possibly a transistor to drive the higher currents you may need in your coil.

The major advantage of this approach as opposed to using PWM is that you would have no induction effects.

It sounds like a great project. I will be very interested in seeing how it progresses. I would be especially interested in hearing you insights into implementing the levitation control in software.

Good luck. I wish you the best on this and hope you can keep us updated as you go.

-Doug

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 1:04 PM

G'day Doug & Dances with Trees

  • One thing you may want to look into is using a Digital to Analog converter to drive a voltage to current circuit. You could then use this to drive the electromagnet portion of your levitation system. The DA converter is an easily accessed circuit and may even be built into the microcontroller you are using. The Voltage to Current circuit is also very simple and can be built with an Op Amp and possibly a transistor to drive the higher currents you may need in your coil.</quote>

As you suspected the microcontroller has built in analogue to digital and digital to analogue converters built in.

There are two ways I see that I can go about this with each having its advantages and disadvantages:

  1. The first it direct current control. This lends itself to using bipolar transistors in the final driving/power amplifier stage but it prone to building up a considerable amount of heat in both the driving transistors and main coil.
  2. The second is pulse width modulation or PWM where you regulate the time the coil is energized at a fixed maximum current. This works well with field effect transistors and because they are either fully on or off doesn't have anything like the same heat build up in the transistors and to a lesser extent coil. It also has the added advantage that the varying magnetic filed that the coil creates can be used to transfer a certain amount of energy to a coil that is mounted inside the model, but more on that in the next paragraphs.

Dances with Trees wrote in post number 5

  • You might add a red LED to the main thruster to simulate it firing, just for fun.

This is starting to get a little scary as it seems us CR4 type ginger beer really do think in very similar ways.

I actually added a LED where the combustion chamber of the main engines would normally be and it looked quiet good so it's definitely something I will try.

Ok, this is where the PWM rather than constant current control comes in. If I use PWN then by mounting a small coil inside the model I should be able to pick up enough energy from the varying magnetic field to drive a couple of LEDs and perhaps enough to drive a small circuit that can be used to mimic the strobe lights they used for visual navigation when carrying out the lunar orbit rendezvous after the landing.

It will be a while before I get this going but I promise to post pictures and maybe even a short video of the final result. However, I am at the moment short of a descent digital single lens reflex camera and need to convince the accounts department (in other words wife) that it's a must have item. Any hinting, grovelling, begging, pleading etcetera that she should buy me that Canon EOS 450D DSLR with the twin lens kit should be directed via the link to Sue hairdresser extraordinaire.

I will also start a thread on the model as soon as I get everything finished and properly documented. The model is primarily constructed from 200 gm-2 cardboard which it the stuff they make business cards out of and can be purchased in A4 sheets from stationary suppliers. Ultimately the plan is to have a kit that you can download and then with a decent inkjet printer print out the various sheets with the components printed on them. It's then a matter of cutting out the shapes and assembling them to give you the final model.

Thanks for the posts, your thoughts are greatly appreciated and stay tuned folks, there's a lot more to come.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 2:53 PM

Sounds like a very cool project.

A few notes on the direct current vs PWM. In order to levitate the object at a point in space it will take X amount of force/energy. This amount won't change whether you use PWM or direct current control. If you use PWM then the power of the pulses will be proportionately higher than the direct current you are using. Therefore the heat dissipation issues won't go away with PWM and the transistors/FETs you are using will need to be able to handle higher current pulses. In addition using PWM in a coil will cause extra heat/energy loss due to induction and eddy currents generated.

If you use the PWM pulses to power the lights in your model through some form of induction then realize that while you are drawing power from the coil it will create a bit of back EMF (see Lenz Law) and it will affect your management of the levitation. This probably won't be a big issue if you are using some form of basic feedback loop but keep it in mind if you see weird effects when you are testing. A basic watch battery setup may be easier to manage even if it is a far less elegant solution.

PWM will create an audible hum in the coil if the frequency is less than roughly 15kHz.

Direct current control will require a more complex circuit and more parts. I think in some ways the PWM solution is actually simpler to implement. Either way you go be careful to protect your microcontroller from any back EMF from the coil. Completely isolating the circuits would be best but some good diodes and caps may be good enough.

Have fun with this.

-Doug

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 7:07 PM

Funny how so many of us think alike, scary as well.

I will be watching for the future post, sounds like a really FUN project, I wish i had more time to play with something like this one. Most of my time is now taken up building big nasty off road trucks, which reminds me I really have to get back to my off road camper planning.

have a great weekend.

Kevin

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#3

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 5:38 AM

G'day stevem

Thanks for the post.

I had already seen the article and it's definitely got plenty of the good stuff.

However, since I ultimately intend to animate the system rather than just suspending it means that it would more than likely be easier to achieve using a PID rather than the concept in the paper.

PIDs are also fairly easy to achieve utilizing microcontrollers. The simplest way is to take a series of samples at regular intervals and storing a second or so worth of values in a FIFO table. The derivative can be obtained by looking at the difference between each of the samples while the integral can be obtained by summing an appropriate number of the values.

Regards, masu.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 9:45 AM

I have never tried to build what you have done so far, and it sounds fascinating.

I can picture the concept very clearly, thanks for that, now please correct me if I got this wrong; the processor is going to control the voltage to the coil to control assent and decent speed.

the consept is sound, and I don't see why it would not work.

You might add a red LED to the main thruster to simulate it firing, just for fun.

On a side note I have the models of the service module, and the lander around here someplace, I built them way back when the lunar landing was big news.

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/27/2009 11:28 AM

You could also try fuzzy logic with the microcontroller.

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#10

Re: Magnetic Levitation

02/28/2009 5:48 PM

Hey

Since you got me thinking I started browsing. I came across this page that had lots of relevant information;

http://bea.st/sight/levitation/

He is doing the levitation on a microprocessor based system also, as well as using coupled resonance coils to transfer power.

If he is willing to share any of the code or more schematics I would love to see them also.

-Doug

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#11

Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/01/2009 2:37 AM

May I give a suggestion regarding using continuous power to the coils rather than PWM?

The heat generated by the coils will require a cooling fan. Normally, a fan would be undesireable for a showpiece like your project but you can put it to good use.

You can put some strips of paper or cloth underneath the rocket motor and allow it to extend a few inches. The air flow from the fan will make the things flutter simulating the smoke and flame trail. The light from the LED will create the flicker effect nicely.

regards,

Vulcan

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#12

Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/01/2009 8:31 AM

G'day gals, guys & gurus,

Thanks for the posts, they are truly appreciated and have provided me with some exceptional lines of thought that I doubt I would have come up with on my own.

In post #9 Doug wrote:

  • A few notes on the direct current vs PWM. In order to levitate the object at a point in space it will take X amount of force/energy. This amount won't change whether you use PWM or direct current control. If you use PWM then the power of the pulses will be proportionately higher than the direct current you are using. Therefore the heat dissipation issues won't go away with PWM and the transistors/FETs you are using will need to be able to handle higher current pulses. In addition using PWM in a coil will cause extra heat/energy loss due to induction and eddy currents generated.

You're absolutely correct in that the RMS power going to the coil is the same regardless of the way it's regulated so there's no real difference in the heat build up in the coil.

However, when it comes to the power amplifier or driving circuit things are a little different. For the moment lets assume we're utilizing a 12 Vdc supply and that the coil requires 5 A at 5 Vdc to produce the appropriate magnetic field.

  • Constant Current: The power going to the coil is 5 Vdc x 5 A giving 25 Watts. For the transistor the current is still 5 A but the voltage drop is 12 Vdc -5 Vdc or 7 Vdc which then give us a power dissipation of 7 Vdc x 5 A or 35 Watts.
  • Pulse Width Modulation: This is a totally different equation entirely as we have to take into account the duty cycle or time base. Basically when you have power going to the coil you give it the whole 12 Vdc less a small voltage drop across the transistor, which we will for this example give a value of 1 Vdc. That means when the coil has power going to it, it receives 11 Vdc rather than the 5 Vdc of the constant current system. As a result the current is proportionally higher and comes in at 11 A which then give us an instantaneous power going to the coil of 11 Vdc x 11 A or 121 Watts. Now this is far more power than the coil needs so the circuitry limits the RMS value of the power by turning the coil on and off very quickly. In this case to achieve the 25 Watts required means that the coil will be on for 25 ÷ 121 or 20.66%. In other words the power will be going to the coil for around 20% of the time and be off for the remaining 80% of the time. Ok, there's really no difference at the coil but when you look at the transistor it's completely different. First off the voltage drop across the transistor has dropped from 7 Vdc to 1 Vdc while the current has increased from 5 A to 11 A. That give us an instantaneous power of 11 Watts but when we take into account the 20% duty cycle the effective power that the transistor needs to dissipate becomes 11 x 20% or 2.3 Watts.

So for a constant current drive system you need transistors that are capable of supplying 5 A and a cooling system that is capable of dissipating at least 35 Watts. On the other hand with a PWM system you need a transistor that can accommodate 11 A but only needs a cooling system that can dissipate 2.3 Watts which is less than one tenth of the power with the constant current drive.

Now this is a considerable simplification and working with electromagnetic fields can be one of the most complex things an electrical engineer ever comes across but it demonstrates the point that PWM circuits are usually more efficient that current regulation.

  • If you use the PWM pulses to power the lights in your model through some form of induction then realize that while you are drawing power from the coil it will create a bit of back EMF (see Lenz Law) and it will affect your management of the levitation.

Absolutely correct. When I do get around to building it I will almost certainly get it going without the pick up system in the model, actually as Dell suggested I will use a simple ballast weight made of the same materials and having the same mass as the model.

However, utilizing a microcontroller gives you the ability to rehash the feedback by simply changing the software. Not only does this make it simpler to get it working in the first instance but makes it a whole lot simpler to accommodate different models that have different shapes, centres of gravity, masses, materials and endless list of other variables. It's also the only way that you could even possibly consider the animation concept.

By the way, thanks very much for the link. I've only had a glance at it but it sounds almost exactly what I am trying to achieve.

Secondary Coils

Something else I noticed in one of the sites was the reference to the use of additional small secondary coils that are used to rotate the item being levitated. The idea was that over a minute or so it would rotate the item so you can see it from different aspects and get a better overall view.

It got me thinking that by adding a series of secondary coils it would be possible to modify the magnetic field so that it results in a magnetic field that is intrinsically more stable than the field from a single coil. I haven't thought this through and it's just something that jumped into my deranged mind so it may be total crap, but has anybody got any thoughts on the use of secondary coils?

In post #12 Vulcan wrote;

  • The heat generated by the coils will require a cooling fan. Normally, a fan would be undesireable for a showpiece like your project but you can put it to good use.

I had assumed that the system would need some fans but I do like your ideas of adding something that enhances the display. It may also be possible to utilize the exhaust to rotate the model rather than messing about with secondary coils.

I have done a reasonable amount of research into the use of cooling fans. For some reason designers prefer to utilize fans that suck hot air out of systems rather than blow cool air in. It is a little easier to design cooling systems that suck rather than blow but they have the phenomenally bad side effect of turning whatever it is into a vacuum cleaner that clogs everything up with dust.

Going back over 15 years I carried out a series of experiments that replaced the sucking fans with blowing fans that had directing vanes/ducts, filters and flow sensors. The end result was slightly more complicated but not only did it keep kept the inside clean and dust free, but the electronics ran between 2°C and 5°C cooler than the sucking fans.

I also built a home automation system that ran Windows 3.1 and a special software package that was based on a 386 processor board and 30 Mb hard disk drive. I mounted it in an old 19" lowboy modem cabinet I had lying about and installed a series of fans that kept everything inside clean, cool and dust free. The result was a phenomenal increase in reliability and over the 13 plus years the system operated for 24 hours a day 7 days a week it never crashed even once, never had a disk error or any other error. The only unplanned or unwanted downtime was for a couple of hours when an extended power outage ran the batteries in the uninterruptible power supply flat.

It also kept the other half happy as the filter collected all the dust in the air and kept the room almost totally dust free. All you had to do was run a vacuum cleaner over the filter once a month or so and bingo, it was all clean.

Anyway, time to get back to the model so thankyou all, your comments and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Regards,

masu.

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#13

Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/02/2009 6:15 PM

One other thought: I would use 2 PID loops. A PI for the position information from the Hall effect sensors, and a PID loop using the acceleration data from the capacitive circuit mentioned.

This would make it easier to control the acceleration during different phases of lift-off and landing. Possibly use something similar to a 3 element drum level control.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/03/2009 6:51 AM

G'day Kilowatt0,

Thanks for the link, I haven't had time to read it properly but it looks exactly like the sort of thing that could be extremely helpful.

On one site they talked about utilizing two Hall effect sensors mounted on either end of the electromagnet. The idea was that if the magnet was in free space with nothing near it the magnetic field should be the same at either end of the magnet. However if a magnet was brought near one end of the magnet it would distort the field and cause a difference between the two sensors. They reckoned that this was all they needed as an input, but I'm somewhat sceptical of their claims.

However, I do plan to install a couple of Hall effect sensors at either end of the electromagnet and use the signals from these as an additional input. Ultimately I may not need them but it's always easier to install things during the build rather than retrofitting them at a later date and the more inputs you have with a microcontroller based system the better it usually works.

Regards & appreciation, masu.

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#15
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Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/03/2009 7:00 AM

perhaps installing several in pairs at decreasing angles in order to provide better decent/assent data?

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#16

Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/06/2009 10:49 PM

Hey Masu

I came across another great link for you. This time at instructables.com.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Electromagnetic-Floater/

This one even has the code available. Please keep us updated as you make progress.

-Doug

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/13/2009 10:02 AM

G'day Doug,

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure that I will use the code as it would involve a considerable amount of patching to get it to do what I have in mind. Personally in situations like this I have found that it is nearly always better to start from scratch rather than modify existing code.

What I think happens is that the way people organize their thoughts and flow of logic within their minds is reflected in the way their programs are organized and flow. Since there are for all intense and purposes an infinite way of organizing the human mind there is a myriad of different ways to write code that produces a given final result.

Anyway, the important thing is that the concept of utilizing a microprocessor rather than a bucket load of analogue circuits and feedback loops is fundamentally sound and is definitely the way to go.

Things are also progressing at this end even if they are at a snails pace. Fortunately I managed to convince the financial director (wife) that investing in another lab power supply was a good idea. I already had a 3-30 Vdc 30 A lab power supply but while it was overload protected there was no way to use it as a constant current source rather than constant voltage source. While the new power supply can supply 3-30 Vdc it has additional circuitry that allows you to set it so it pumps out a variable voltage and constant current between 0-5 A. This will not only mean that I can isolate the coil and driver electronics from the other electronics but limit the damage that can be done during the design and testing stage.

So, I had better stop drivelling on and get back in the workshop.

Regards, masu

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#18

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/30/2009 11:17 AM

G'day gals, guys & gurus,

The maglev unit and model of the Apollo Lunar Module are still a work in progress, but the descent stage is pretty much finished and I thought the participants of this thread would like to see the results so far.

This view is from the +Z axis and shows the Lunar egress porch & ladder. The four things that stick up above the top bulkhead are called plume deflectors and prevent the RCS thrusters that they use to manoeuvre from damaging the descent stage. These were and afterthought and were not present on the early versions of the LM

This image is from between the –Z and +Y axes. The octagonal protrusion covers a spherical O2 tank while the box that protrudes on the face on the left of the image is where the experiments and equipment the astronauts used on the lunar surface are housed. It also shows the black Pyromark blankets that are used to protect the innards of the LM. Getting these to mimic the rough texture of the real thing took so many attempts that I lost track of how many tries it took. Regards, masu

This image is of the under side of the +Z leg and shows the secondary struts, cross truss, deployment truss as well as the engine heat shields and the engine nozzle. There is a high intensity LED mounted at the top of the nozzle but the power for it comes from batteries in the ascent stage so it doesn't work yet.

The ascent stage is currently on the drawing board, so as soon as I have it finished I will post some more pictures.

Regards, masu

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/30/2009 12:15 PM

Nice work Masu! Great detail.

Keep us informed as this proceeds. I am especially interested in your work with the levitation electronics.

-Doug

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/30/2009 11:24 PM

There's no way to tell the scale though. How big is that thing? Can't be too big, that's for sure.

But, big or small, the detail is astounding! Nice piece of work, Masu!

regards,

Vulcan

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Magnetic Levitation

05/02/2009 1:10 PM

G'day Vulcan & Doug,

· How big is that thing?

Sorry about not including a scale, it just didn't occur to me at the time but in future I will include at least one image like the one on the right that either has a major dimension or something that will give you the idea of the size.

In this case the model is 1/32 scale which makes the distance between the centres of opposite foot pads a little over 266 mm (10.47 inches).

The LM model is actually the first of a series that will ultimately include not only the Apollo Command & Service Modules but the Saturn V launch vehicle as well. Originally I was going to make the whole thing 1/48 scale but I found that the level of detail I was aiming for was difficult and some times impossible to achieve so I increased the size of the model to 1/32 scale. That will mean that the full stack of the Apollo Spacecraft and Saturn V 3.366 m or a tad over 11 feet long. That might sound large for a model but the Saturn V is to say the least an extremely large launch vehicle that the smaller scales just don't do it justice.

Ultimately I would like to develop a version of the model that shows the interior detail of the Saturn V which would be very difficult with the smaller 1/48 scale.

Regards, masu

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#24
In reply to #21

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/15/2010 9:41 AM

More, Masu, more, please give us more.

Cheesie eager grin.

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#22

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/08/2010 8:26 AM

Hello!

In University i had in control engenering a practical course about a levitating metall sphere.

All i can remember up to know is that the sphere was illuminated and the position signal was from an opto electrical device. The position of the sphere was thus an analog signal. The feedback loop was a simple PID controler.

I have searched the website of the university but the design is no longer available for not students, it is still in the Curriculum. It might be even available in english.

Just reply if you are intressted in such an analog solution, i still have good connections to the university.

The biggest problem was not the adjustment of the controler but the manual position of the sphere as the hand placing it also obsucred the light used in the loop - but i also passed this sleight of hand test

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#25
In reply to #22

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/16/2010 1:58 AM

It seems to me there could be a problem in trying to control (X,Y,Z) position with a single axis controller if the object has any tendancy to move in any uncontrolled axis.

The position detection would refer to one axis eg X (opposing force of gravity), if element moves in either of the other two (Y,Z) directions for what ever reason, a corrective action will be made for the controlled axis.

Having said that, controlling the position in the other two directions would be difficult using electromagnetics when the controlled element is itself a magnet. I think the object may have a tendancy to flip/rotate the magnet.

Food for more thought - for me at least.

Cheers

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/19/2010 6:42 AM

G'day gals, guys & gurus,

  • "It seems to me there could be a problem in trying to control (X,Y,Z) position with a single axis controller if the object has any tendancy to move in any uncontrolled axis."

That's exactly why the system I'm working on utilizes magnetic attraction rather than magnetic repulsion.

For a purely attractive system the centre of gravity of the load will try and centre itself at the centre of the magnetic field so you don't have to worry about the horizontal position.

All you then need is a sufficiently fast and accurate system of measuring the separation between the load being lifted then use the inverse of the square to modulate the current and strength of the magnetic field of the lifting magnet.

Or at least that's the theory, in practice producing a stable magnetic levitation system is a whole different ball game.

Regards, masu

PS: The magnetic levitation system is on hold for the moment while I build a 1/350 scale model of the Star Ship Enterprise. To make it look more realistic I am lighting it up with a whole host of LEDs that are controlled with PIC16F690 microcontrollers that are on PCBs that I am designing and building myself. When I get a chance I will start up a thread on it under the masu on blog.

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#23

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/08/2010 10:20 AM

Its actually magnetic repulsion.An untapped PMM source.Usefull for mag-lev/electricity production/spacecraft propulsion or simply running a clock covertcowboy@yahoo.com

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#27

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/22/2010 11:45 AM

Well, you found the material: Hungaro- cell ( Frigolite ) of the finest and hardest possible consistance, then you make the model out of it. First you glue a big cube together and start to shape it by hand until it looks like the space craft. When finished, you cover it with aluminum foliage and you put a light weight batteri in the middle of it and try the idea, if it can lift on it´s own or not and see how great weight it could possibly lift, then count the volume of the size of the desired model which wouldf lift the 1 kg weight of a surface which is electrically charged underneeth it. ( there also is a way how to glue glas fiber in fluid form onto frigolite, and when it hardened will create hight pressure inside the model when burned, becomes harder then any known metal, elastic, can take high temperatures and a vacuum will be created inside it´s walls....)

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#28

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/22/2010 2:29 PM

Masu I'm coming into this project late, but as everyone has said, it seems like a really fun project. You and most everyone have been focused on the use of a PIC micro to do the controlling. I have a more general question. Just looking at the funcitons, controlling a large magnet, altering the output in response to a feedback signal and keeping the whole thing stable, it seems to me that you have just described a PWM Buck Switching power supply circuit. Have you considered using a simple switch mode power supply chip to do all of the controlling and feedback compensation for you instead of putting the task into the microcontroller? Since the functions are all already there, you may not need to do that much fiddling to get a working prototype. Of course, there will be fiddling to do since the behavior of a floating model will not be the same as a coil, diode and large cap connected together, but it might not be that difficult. -- Just a thought in case the micro solution proves to be a bit much. The model looks really good and I would certainly enjoy seeing it in action. Good luck.

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#30
In reply to #28

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/25/2010 1:06 PM
  • "Have you considered using a simple switch mode power supply chip to do all of the controlling and feedback compensation for you instead of putting the task into the microcontroller?"

I have considered utilizing things like pulse width power supplies and the like but the complicated part comes from getting the gain of the feedback loop correct. Cost is also another factor and microcontrollers are hard to beat on this front.

A couple of weeks back I managed to purchased a stack of PIC16F690 18 IO microcontrollers for less than AU$3-50 each which makes them about as expensive as a 555 timer or couple of bipolar transistors.

Ok, the really big factor is the ability to reprogram the chips in circuit by connecting the PICkit2 USB programmer I have. That means you can play with the feedback loop to your heart's content without even picking up a screwdriver let alone messing with analogue gains etcetera.

I've put the Lunar Module project on hold for the moment as I am currently building a 1:350 scale model of the Starship Enterprise NCC-1701A. It's been a huge learning curve as it has involved learning how to program the PIC microcontrollers (I found a package called Great Cow Graphical Basic the easiest to learn and use). I have also been working on the design and fabrication of printed circuit boards but I now have everything I need to design, test, fabricate, and program PIC16F690 microcontroller based control boards in a couple of days or so.

When I've finished the Enterprise model I will write it all up including all the peripheral stuff about designing and fabricating the PCBs.

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#29

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/22/2010 3:53 PM

I was checking on the web and found a link where you maybe could get a few useful parts out of this model when building your own:

http://www.bananahobby.com/1804.html

It looks like a funny toy and it´s functional....

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#37
In reply to #29

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/27/2013 1:22 AM

I AM INTERASTED YOUR REPLY HERE. AND I KNOW A SIMILAR SITE WHICH IS ALSO RELATED T OTHIS KIND HELICOPTER .
[url=http://www.rctophobby.com]rehelicopter[/url]

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#40
In reply to #29

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/28/2013 5:01 AM

your helicopter is cool.when did you get it ? have attended any comptetion? weel, i know a site abot rc-helicopter. maybe we can share information mutually.

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#31

Re: Magnetic Levitation

06/14/2010 2:37 AM

Late addition...

Equations of force for attractive magnetic levitation are highly NON-LINEAR. The "trick" is to linearize the system response at a specific operating point, THEN apply classic feedback control methods. This technique will work quite effectively. An analog control and drive circuit implementation is actually very simple, but also very inefficient. Power dissipation is high and forced air cooling is usually necessary.

The same control technique can be implemented using a microprocessor and PWM of the electromagnet current greatly enhances efficiency.

I've built several analog versions of this type of magnetic levitator. The largest one could suspend a 3.5" diameter solid steel (~15 lbs.) ball bearing 1/2"-3/4" below the electromagnet.

Making this type of levitator stable over a large range of operating points (distances between magnets) will be a big challenge. Good luck!

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#32

Re: Magnetic Levitation

07/06/2010 4:41 AM

Hello,

My question is, has anybody ever tried setting up a magnetic levitation system based on a microcontroller and if so what were the end results?

I built the magnetic levitation system I bought from Zeltom. It is based on a microcontroller and uses minimal external components. The system is very stable and overall the end result is great.

John

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Magnetic Levitation

07/07/2010 12:20 AM

G'day guest,

Very interesting.

The kit you built uses the PIC30F2011 microcontroller which is about 4 times as powerful as the PIC16F690 microcontroller that I was thinking of using. Unfortunately I don't have a programmer for the PIC30F2011 so using this chip would involve hunting down an appropriate programmer.

On the other hand it does demonstrate the concept and by getting rid of the fancy stuff like the square, sinusoidal and sawtooth wave functions might make the program simple and fast enough to run on the PIC16F690.

The other alternative would be to break the system up into functional blocks and use separate microcontrollers for each.

Anyway, thanks for the post, at least it means that somebody has gone down this path before and demonstrates that the concept is possible if not practical.

Regards, masu

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: Magnetic Levitation

10/11/2010 7:02 PM

Giday masu

I have no idea how I got here (the blog) but the title of the thread must have triggered something and made me follow up. You guys have been at this for a while so please excuse potential ignorance.

It is fascinating what you are doing and has been in the back of my head since childhood. That it has now come to the realization of this, in such sophisticated form, is pleasing to read and look at.

I have not read through all the posts but one thing intrigues, has escaped me: What is the application?

Is it to have a film-able model sequence of events. Like in special effects for star wars? I am sorry if you have mentioned this somewhere, too fascinated with the concept in general and too lazy to chase all the links.

If it was to be used in the real trick film application I think I could be of help with out interfering with what you have accomplished so far. My approach could be used for other applications as well. It is of theoretical nature but in the realm of possibility.

How much would decreasing the weight of the lander be of advantage? Just off the top of my head it would increase the potential space between magnet and object, if that is desirable.

By now your studies will have come to a conclusion and the third prototype is possibly fully up and running. Just thought to drop in at this late stage and find out what happened in the end.

Have one on me, Ky.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Magnetic Levitation

10/13/2010 3:12 AM

G'day ky,

Thanks for the post:

  • "Is it to have a film-able model sequence of events. Like in special effects for star wars?"

The plan is to use it as a static display for models so that the model is suspended in free space with no apparent methods of supporting it.

  • "How much would decreasing the weight of the lander be of advantage?"

The model itself is constructed from cardboard that has been cut and glued in place. For metal finishes like the gold foil of the descent stage (see images in earlier posts), appropriately coloured aluminium foil is used to give a more realistic effect.

So, the current weight of the model is actually less than the weight of the rare earth magnet I plan to build it around so I doubt I could reduce the weight much more.

  • "By now your studies will have come to a conclusion and the third prototype is possibly fully up and running. Just thought to drop in at this late stage and find out what happened in the end."

Actually I have had to put the maglev and Apollo model on hold as most of my time over the last year has been taken up with a 1/350 scale model of the Starship Enterprise from the first Star Trek movie. The Enterprise model is unfortunately way to large (89 cm. 25 inches long), heavy (8 kg. 17.5 pounds) and complex (200 plus LEDs, 2 LASERs & 5 microcontrollers) to use the maglev concept so the maglev project is currently on hold. However, before I put it on hold I purchased a kit that uses an ultrasonic transmitter and receiver to measure distance and I modified it to give a simple analogue signal that was proportional to the distance. The result, at least in theory, showed that the system was fast and accurate enough to use as the distance measuring component of the maglev system.

Hopefully I will have the Enterprise model finished by the end of this year and depending on the arrival of parts I may be able to resurrect the maglev project after that. Regardless of that when I do resurrect the project I will definitely post any results in this thread. I will also be creating a series of posts on the construction of the Enterprise model once I have finished the design of the electronics.

Regards, masu

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#36

Re: Magnetic Levitation

03/23/2013 1:19 AM

you want to levitate subjects through microcontroller, i think you could try electronic-control,i.e.the switch would be get closed or open when we manupulate the switch.we can use electromagnetic instead normal magnetic.rc helicopter.

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#38

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/27/2013 1:29 AM

i am intreasted in what you are discusing here.and i'd like to share with you some similar information.you can get some thing about rc helicopter .

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#39

Re: Magnetic Levitation

04/27/2013 1:34 AM

this article is ver interesting and many people add reply here. and i just want to say rc helicopter will be sure impressive for you .

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#41

Re: Magnetic Levitation

05/07/2013 2:14 AM

I was checking on the web and found a link where you maybe could get a few useful parts out of this model when building your own:

http:// www.rctophobby.com

this rc helicopter looks funny and is functional.

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