Economic Growth vs. Environment

Why do we have to live in a Comsumer driven society ?

Can't we use technology to serve humans and help the enviorment ?

Consumers vote. The environment they care most about is the place they call home. Their priorities are all about how to survive till the next paycheck.

A minority portion of our technology goes into consumer products. Note how much of this consumer stuff is now made overseas in third world countries and China. This doesn't happen until the technology is essentially a done deal.

Our big technology investments are in health care, biochemistry, defense technology, computer science, transportation technology,communication technology, resource extraction, and in the future add energy technology, earth sciences and education technology. And a likely reduction in new defense technology.

Ed Weldon

We could switch to other forms of society like one the explores space and and provides great health care and devolps sytems to save farm lands and the natural world.

Why not think Star Treck and explore the Universe. What is so great about running around making a few bucks to buy clothes that are made cheap so they fall apart and you need new ones.

Make clothes that last forever and be done with it.

I like this attitude. Let us enjoy advancing our knowledge and understanding of the universe much more.

No my orginal idea, like an old horse I had to be lead to water !

Here is where I learned.

http://www.pinkyshow.org/archives/presents/080410_stuff/

Design proposals for lifetime clothes.

Dadw5 -- You say: "We could switch to other forms of society like one the explores space and provides great health care and develops systems to save farm lands and the natural world. Why not think Star Trek and explore the Universe."

Should we then abandon all the technological areas I listed in post#2 and embark on a search for the technology of warp drives? The science does not even exist in advanced knowledge of physics to support any such technology at any practical level for human use.

Nice dream. Neither you nor I will ever see it happen.

We live in a world of growing population and decreasing resources. A majority of the people already here lives from day to day or at best week-to-week with little vision of the future. How can you expect people like that to invest in clothes that will last forever? What good are such things when you don't even know if you will survive to see the next change in the seasons?

Oh!! You expect people to think like Ed Weldon in their choice of clothes?

My clothes last a long time and forever may be within my reach. Well at least for as long as I'll need them; the assumption being those clothes will not be needed in the afterlife. Here's my formula:

1. Retire from working for someone else whom you need to impress with the way you dress. This does not necessarily preclude other forms of gainful occupation.

2. All one needs are underpants, shirts, pants, long and short, socks, shoes, jackets, hats and gloves appropriate to the weather.

3. The key to this is the fabric technology that has been around for 40-50 years, polyester-cotton blends.

4. The improvements needed are the following, which at present require minor do it yourself modifications and a lot of sewing:

a. Easily replaceable neckbands and collars on shirts and also cuffs on jackets.

b. Replaceable knee covers on long pants and several double stitch lines above and below the knees where the pants can be cut off to make into shorts. I like the idea of knee covers made from Kevlar.

c. All pocket liners, buttons and zippers replaceable without sewing.

d. Shoes designed for owner replaceable heals, soles and other wearing surfaces. Note that a new adhesive, 3m Scotchweld 1357 Neoprene High Performance Contact Adhesive shows great promise for attaching new wear pads to the outsides of leather foot wear. My son uses it to attach leather protectors to his hockey skates.

e. Long lasting replaceable elastic cuffs on socks.

f. Replaceable headbands on hats.

g. Replacement fingers for gloves.

h. I don't yet have an answer to how to extend the life of underpants; but I hasten to note that my present inventory of perhaps 15 or so pairs of Jockey briefs were all purchased about 10 years ago and are only now beginning to tear around the belt line elastic. So I think some of them may out live me. This bothers my wife a lot inasmuch as every time they come out of the dryer they are a little grayer in color from picking up the dye from my blue tee shirts and overshirts. Even after watching ER every week for the last few years she still thinks the people in the emergency room would think less me because my underpants aren't snow white.

Ed Weldon

Don't abandond anything since going gloable we have more than enough people around the world to work on everything.

Can't we use technology to serve humans and help the enviorment ?

Another paradox...........technology is consumer driven.

SUSTAINABILITY is a very matured and highly responsible word, that, as humans of awareness, it is the moral and demanding focus in activities connected to modrern life.

*Let us look into the causes for this demanding urge, to meet sustainabilty in all walks of the current human life style.

*Mankind is the wisest of all beings, keeps improving the following life comforts.

*A safe home and society to get all needs,climatic protection,protection from predaters,Total security,basic needs-food,shelter,and clothing,add occupation as another basic need,snacks,drinks,games,entertainment,communicaton,health care,transport,education,materials and gadgets,water,power,energy,military,trade and commodities,new products,media and lot more to sustain daily life.

*It is clear that none of us will be prepared to go back to jungle in a naked fashion ,to lead a so called natural life, free of pollution,degradable natural consumptions,raw fruits,vegetables ,raw meat and uncooked food and feed on plain water.Can any one imagine of such a natural life?

*All human activities exploit,empty out,manipulate,utilize available biotic and abiotic sources -the elements like water,air,earth,solar power and the renewable biological productivity are key survival factors.

*Sustainability came into picture, based on realistic aspects of estimation of future supplies and availabilty on this wonderful planet.

*mis use of water,pollution aspects of all our activities,non renewability aspects of resources,bio degradabilty and recycling possibilties,garbages.

*As responsible humans for ourselves and to the very niche where we live,sustainabilty play a vital role in all our activities as regard to population,living space,limitation and non renewabilty ,minimum and handlable,convertable wastes.

*Nature demonstrates this,whereas humans need 24 hrs, round the year demands of all essentials.

*The realistic approach of consideration of sustainability in a true and complex perspective is certainly he need of the hour so as to say better late than never.

*No doubt, sustainable development is the right channel to capability and wider vision development and meeting viable challenges.It has to draw a lot of acceptable and optimistic solutions.

*It is a major human responsibility cautioning us-DON'T TAKE THINGS FOR GRANTED,THINK AND ACT.

Contrary to commonly accepted corporate economic models, sustainability and economic growth are not diametrically (or even diabolically) opposed. Decision makers have to forgo chasing profits as the sole priority, and that's a tough pill to swallow in the boardroom. However, even the densest of talking heads and corporate types should be able to see that sustainability, environmental stewardship, conservation of virgin materials, etc., makes incredible long-term economic, public relations, ecological, and altruistic sense.

Economic Growth vs. Environment

What would one call it kinda like a paradox.

When the economy is bad, economy wins.

When the economy is strong, Environment has a chance, but its against allot of odds with the economy.

So always bet on the house..........that would be the economy.

Things like economy models have an end point where change is forced of everyone. So why wait make the chances ourselves. We see the consumerism is not good for our planet, our health , or for the people who have not exploited their natural resources because everyone else is charging hard to get those untapped resources.

How many wars will be fought for African Resources , South American or for oil worldwide?

How many wars will be fought for African Resources , South American or for oil worldwide?

How many wars....... all of them, that is not going to change.

Well death and destruction has had it's time in history why don't we try a different course.

I know getting those who profit from choas and destruction on board will not be easy but we need to try.

I know getting those who profit from choas and destruction on board

They're usually are the ones in charge, whether voted in or appointed. And few people have tried, It all depends what you want to give up to try............And what you have to give up can mean you life.

Those stacks are too high for most.

Yeah most of us know that. We have little fear of the gun because they can only kill me once. But living like a slave to the machine of comsumerism is not what my life will be about.

They will never say of me when I am dead and gone , " He sure bought a lot of stuff ".

I can't exist to have more stuff it just makes no sense when millions are starving and I am tossing out 6 lbs of trash each day. No I will not be a party to that.

Dadw5 --

In spite of my criticism of your departures from boring pragmatism I actually admire your idealistic thinking. Would that we could reduce the "me first" component of our consumerism and replace it with an "I have what I need; what can I do for someone else?" philosophy.

There are still many deep unknowns for us to selflessly explore. A few are extraterrestrial. Most are right here on our Earth. Some even close enough for us to touch with our hands. Although he made the model simple and easy for the child in all of us to understand Gene Roddenberry was right.

Ed Weldon