Delete Data Permanently from HDD

That's odd. Why did this entire branch of the thread get marked 5x 'off topic'? It discussed a real alternative and highlighted the difficulty/uncertainty of success with the approach suggested in the OP.

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What was so offensive or off topic about this post? Please let me know. I don't want to contribute waste my time contributing commentary that will be hidden without clear reason.

Most 5-OT posts are so marked by their originators.

Replies to OT posts inherit the OT designation, unless the writer unchecks the box to lower left of the composing window.

That is not the case here. I know I did not mark it OT. It is also very unlikely that five users all decided to mark those posts OT.

I fully support the right and initiative to moderate including hiding or even deleting posts, but participation in a forum like this is certainly influenced by the clarity, fairness, and adherence to a set of rules for such moderation. Why post what won't be seen?

Only two, relatively unimportant posts are affected it appears to me, or did you "link" to the wrong one?

You linked to Post #2 which was linked to Post#1......which were:-

#2 Say it clear please. I cant understand what you said about hardware.

#1 I can think of several different types of hardware to accomplish permanent unrecoverable deletion.

What did you do wrong? Or am I missing something important due to incorrect linking?

Thanks for your T & T.....

Posts 1, 2, 3, 11, and 12 appear to have all been given lumps of 5 OT around the same time.

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You are right though, Andy, the contents of these posts are not terribly important. I'm not really concerned about the content of those posts specific posts not being hidden.

It is worth discussion, as knowing whether moderation will occur willy-nilly arbitrarily diminishing certain contributions, or whether it will be dependably evenhanded and forthright; is an important factor in to what degree I decide to participate in this forum.

They are free to run CR4 as they see fit. There won't be any hard feelings either way. Some ways of running it make being involved more attractive than others.

On further review, I think you're right, and that Admin is doing some improper manipulation. Post 1 is the key; it could not inherit a prior OT. I had the same thing happen once, but I forget which thread, even though it wasn't very long ago.

It appears to me that you may have posted yourself as "Off Topic" in #1, and the others all "answered" your post, one after the other without removing the "tick" for Off Topic......it could have also been 5 members doing that!!

So, assuming I am right, all the other members simply perpetrated their own OTs.

Just post #2 got given a few more presented to him for some reason!!!

Thats my take.....

I also didn't see much value in any of them, but they are still readable for everyone to make their own judgement.....

I did not rate my own comment. I reviewed the responses a couple times prior to the 5x OT being added.

People are, of course, fallible and subject to counter factual recollections, but that is not the case here. The additional OT marks on the reply would have been unlikely had it initially gone up as nested/. In fact, the series of replies would have been far less likely had the comment been self rated as OT.

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Once again, let me agree with your assessment that the content of these comments does not shake the Earth. These are less than important comments. I will also reiterate this is immaterial to the discussion.

There are a set of understood rules, some written, others not. It is an informal agreement that facilitates the contribution and publishing of commentary/discussions. When the rules become inconsistent and difficult to predict or understand, the value proposition for involvement has changed. .

Realize this is not about the content of those comments (it would be another subject if the comments were obscene or offensive). This is about expectations of how our contributions are handled going forward.

Ah!!

I like your attitude too.....not worth a GA, but close but no cigar!!

It appears to me that you may have posted yourself as "Off Topic" in #1, and the others all "answered" your post, one after the other without removing the "tick" for Off Topic......it could have also been 5 members doing that!!

So, assuming I am right, all the other members simply perpetrated their own OTs.

Just post #2 got given a few more presented to him for some reason!!!

Thats my take.....

I also didn't see much value in any of them, but they are still readable for everyone to make their own judgements.....

I couldn't detect any improvement in this versus the earlier apparently identical version.

Does that bother you?

If yes, why?

I like the off-topic comments myself.

It seems that if you respond to an OT then your reply is OT as well.

You can go into your set-up files (account file, or whatever it is called) to turn on the OT's to display them. You can then read them, reply, or tick the OT box, or not, or jut skip them as you wish. The choice is yours.

II agree that it is a bit annoying to get an OP for no reason at all, other than someone taking a dislike to you.

I don't mind individual OT ratings. I don't kind when the comment is obscured because a net of 2 or more people have marked a comment OT.... those are the understood rules.

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What I do mind is arbitrarily being assigned 5 OT for some unknown reason. That is not in the rules as I have come to know them.

All this "big brother" issues may be the answer to Kris (Dec 2014) when he posted "Why have people left CR4"

I think you may be onto something.

Just to be clear, it isn't that the moderation is too heavy handed. It is the inconsistency, lack of clarity and failure to explain actions taken. If the time is taken to pass judgement on a comment that is not obviously unacceptable, the reasoning should be explained. It could go a long way toward setting reasonable expectations and possibly even foster some good will.

Just to be clear, you imply that you did not accidentally leave yourself as off topic (replying to an OT post) and therefore gave yourself 5 OTs automatically?

You answered post #2 which was already OT, so unless you actually removed the tick, you would have got 5 OTs automatically.....(we have ALL made this mistake from time to time!)

5 is the amount you got and also the amount that you CAN give yourself if you do not watch out carefully.....coincidence?

It could be of course 5 people giving you an OT as you appear to think it was (assuming I understood your posts correctly and that we are both talking about post #12 as well!), but very, very seldom to my mind.....

My advice is not to worry, we ALL get OTs from time to time, sometimes even for really good posts that someone did not like for some obtuse reason. (All of mine for example)

I have even given GAs to help "remove" some OTs that were easy to see were really unfair and completely uncalled for.....(You can please most of the people most of the time...........remember!!)

regards

Andy

Dear Mr.Lokeshloki,

In yesterday's posting - you have asked how the deleted files are retrieved by Soft Ware, and what I know, I have replied.

To-day you are asking How to Delete a file, permananently which cannot be retrieved, possibly, by any soft ware, by anybody, at any time.

Well. What I do is open the file put the cursor on the bottom most line at right side, and press the back space and all the lines will be ERASED and I type some thing and save and then delete, either directly or through Recycle Bin.

If you or anybody try to retrieve that file ( since the file path will remain in the system) the soft ware may get the newly typed content but not the original content which erased .

Let us see what other CR4 Members put their vies/suggestions/experience.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

I think you're right, if you try to find the information using the file name. But if you look at the entire disk image, you'll probably find the previous content of the file in sectors that have been marked unused that have not been written over.

Sophisticated software will be able to recover anything you "delete" from the drive.

Solution: Remove the HDD from the computer and throw it in the river.

Programs exist that can nearly completely delete a file from a hard drive by overwriting random sequences over the precise file location on a hard drive. The problem is that very often temporary copies of the file will reside in other locations of the hard drive. This can be from nominal defragmenting of the hard drive or just the temporary file generated when you examined which files should be removed hopefully forever. Then there are those viruses and trojan files that actively work to hide themselves from you.

With enough resources and time even the remains of a DOD shredder program can often be back traced and examined to reveal what was probably there.

Don't forget that how you obtained those files will also leave a trail that can be examined and traced back to you.

DoD shredder program I was familiar with would literally shred the disk!

What you say is true, but only the resources of say the FBI, CIA or NSA will manage to find anything, and take many days/weeks even to do that.....

The DOD multi over write is more than good enough for most normal things....even a single pass is probably OK for most people's data, though more over writes are of course better....for a big drive, 2 TB for example, it could take a really long time to manage say even 50 times over writing......a USB 3.1 interface would of course help, but at least a USB3.0 is a must.....

Or plug it into a fast SATA slot in your PC.....even better!!!

If the data is SOOOOO critical, then as many here have said, smash it with a hammer and then put whats left in a hot fire.....

Nobody will recover anything from that!!!

Selling of used hard disks on ebay is a problem that DOD over writes will handle well.....and should be done before selling of course.

The OP has simply not given us enough information to allow our "guessing" to be anything more than that!!!

Sometimes the simplest way to make sure past info is gone on a harddrive is to write over it multiple times with other non critical data like using s basic drive wiper program to write everything to all 0's or all 1's and back a few times then go over it with new data like pictures of random things or song files.

Granted someone who is extremely determined to find what used to be there may be able to fine bits of the original data but for the most part most anything that been written over a few times is not worth the effort to recover by the average hacker.

Or the most obvious solution is to never put stuff on a drive thais that valuable or important to begin with.

The DOD over write will do just that as you correctly mentioned and you don't need to decide what will be written and when....

You just tell it how many times to completely overwrite and leave it for a day or two (depending upon speed of disk, speed of interface and speed of PC/Laptop.....

The OP might be interested in this:-

five-hard-disk-cleaning-and-erasing-tools

What happened, did you crash the Mars Rover? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVczPBZ5oxU

I think you're right he crashed the f**king Mars rover. Thank you for for of the best laughs I've had in a long time. THX Kilowatt

Whatever happened to "FORMAT C:\"?

Followed by "CHKDSK" that would overwrite to check erase - write - erase capability of every bit on the disk.

It used to wipe everything and then you could reset the FAT so that the partitions were no longer on the boundary points previously.

In reality it would depend on what source code the machine uses and then knowing how to program in that arena. (Not the simulated DOS (source code) arena that is available on some machines.) As you hint, higher level languages only hide the access to previous data rather than actually removing it.

Note that if you use FORMAT or similar command you will have to re-teach the drive from scratch.

You could probably be absolutely assured if you formatted from the current operating system to an alternate based on a different language and then format it back to the desired language.

Really big magnets also seem to work!!, but that's not a software solution.

Big magnets are not as good an idea as you may think for several reasons, (neither is an OS FORMAT command....Data will still be readable.)

1) The big magnets will also erase the "Di-bits" (spelling may be off, sorry!) as well, making the disk usually unusable for most normal people and systems.....though a low level format may get rid of data to a degree and still leave the disk usable, but still unsafe to my mind and without expensive tools and knowledge, difficult to be sure that the data is really gone.

2) Using big magnets only, the data will still recoverable by an interested party with a big bank balance and lost of good technology available, it will simply be read by a laser after the drive has been opened and the disk platters removed. As good as ALL data will be readable....usually ALL! Sadly!!

As the OP has not told us if he wants to sell or in any way re-use the drive, its difficult to advise him well.....

I am only guessing, but I think he wants to "clean" them and resell them on.....the free DOD over write should be more than good enough....as several here have mentioned already.....its slow but good and runs without intervention once started.....

Users have not been able to access, control, or delete all DATA stored in a machine or on the hard drive via the C:> since Windows 95 was introduced.

After 9-11 the OS security on all computers was even further compromised so that the user cannot delete entered DATA and extraction files are automatically included with all OS software packages that track and report suspicious activities.

Specialty hardware is required to successfully wipe a hard drive clean and to remove all DATA in the onboard static backup memory chips.

The hardware includes insertion of a specialty communication card into an open motherboard slot which is then cable hardwired to a separate computer with a matching communications card and loaded with the proper software. (Last time I checked the kit cost was around $7,000.00 US.)

Not only is there a secret partition which mirrors all DATA that users enter for recovery/restore purposes but also many OEM companies such as DELL and HP use the Cloud to automatically backup everything on a remote server to provide better technical support to their customers.

Be aware that in most cases the OS computer software will not operate correctly without the DATA tracking and extraction files being active.

Most users do not have the skill set required to eliminate these and modify the OS so that it will still operate.

Yes. Ish. Lots. Search "HDD wipe", or "HDD Shred" and variations.

Background: Data is stored in blocks, think 'pigeonholes'. A file will cover several blocks, like filling several pigeonholes. When a file, or part of a file occupies a block that block is prevented from being overwritten by a flag that says "this block is in use". When you delete a file the data isn't deleted. The flag that says "this block is in use" is merely turned to "this block is not in use". So the data is still there, initially, until it is overwritten by a later stored file using that space.

So the first, and really easy way, data is restored is by simply ignoring the "block is not is use" designation and reading what data may exist in there. Simples.

Next level is if the disk has been re-formatted. Re-formatting removes the entire pigeonhole system and replaces it with a new one. However, reformatting can actually preserve some of the data that would otherwise be written over as the old system can exist as a magnetic signature on the disk. This isn't easy to get at but a full magnetic analysis of the disk can often recover that file system and the data on it. It's a lot more trouble though.

Finally if the data has been systematically overwritten it's harder still to recover. However there will still be a magnetic echo of the previous data which sensitive equipment can detect. A good file shredding programme will repeatedly overwrite the data in the block with random data eventually degrading any residual magnetic data to undetectable levels. (It used to be repeated "X"s but that leaves a predictable magnetic signature which made teasing out underlying detected signal easier).

Well, I say "undetectable", let's just say "ever more expensive levels of equipment.".

As with many things you need to decide on the risk/ cost/ effort. You need to think what the value of your data is to a third party and consequently how much effort they'll apply to get it. Even the fragments of a smashed disk can be scanned, reassembled and useful data garnered although usually the only people that would go to such lengths are transport accident investigators.

If the cost impact of your data being released is less than the price of the disk, wipe the data using a commercial wipe programme (see above). If the cost impact of disclosure is high (say the release of a customer database which could close down your company) wipe then destroy the disk. There are companies which will shred old disks for you. Personally, I wipe the disk then take it out into the back garden and stick a pickaxe through it. Then I chuck it away. The cost to a third party of recovering the data (still slightly possible in part) would be very significantly more than the value.

SSD utilizes silkscreened multi-layered TTL with a capacitor PS for maintaining the last known gate sequence in the set/reset position. While it is more discrete it can also get fragmented leaving recorded DATA available for viewing or extraction.

The fragmentation of data on a drive can leave a SSD still vulnerable to deleted data being recoverable. However on a bit by bit basis a SSD is far less likely to leave traceable residue.

With regards to SSD drives only, I found a website that maintains that once an SSD has been completely overwritten at least once of all the data, the data from before is not recoverable anymore at all...

Apparently no "residues" are left for the CIA to find!!

So summing up, once unwanted data has been deleted and then a security wipe (DOD wipe for example) of the freed up data area(s), there is nothing left of the previously deleted data.

But any data not deleted will still be there, so quite useful for anyone with sensitive (porn!) data to get rid of!!

All of which could be interesting for people with stuff that needs getting rid of!!

A 4lb lump hammer will do the trick.

As others have shown here, there might be no safe way to remove the data content of an HDD (other than physically destroying it). I'm not an expert but I think that using an SSD instead of an HDD might offer the solution - overwriting the data on an SSD multiple times cannot leave any trace of what was written before because the recording medium is not a magnetic one. And the price of an SSD is now low enough to consider replacing an HDD (at least for storing "sensitive" data that you want to safely remove).

GA

As a novice I can think of dozens of ways of destroying data, as has been stated already by others. Most of which result in destroying everything else as well.

Post #16 gives insight to the way data is stored. The problem as I see it, is to destroy data in unwanted files, but keep the rest intact and in full working order.

In my case I am not referring to files I have written and saved, which I can find and delete (bearing in mind what has been said by others here, to open the file, delete the contents, then rewrite with gibberish couple of times, then delete the file), but numerous scam files downloaded with emails and downloaded when surfiing the Internet.

I have anti-virus software that is supposed to protect me from harm, and I have a 'privacy' file shredding programme that is supposed to delete all these unwanted files, all of which are unknown to me.

The reason I have this software is because I use my laptop for work and business and I do not want colleagues (or even strangers) prying into my private affairs, being able to dig out personal or incriminating data from files that I have opened and read and closed (but perhaps not deleted) that could remain on the HDD without my knowledge, but nevertheless could be 'found' by snoopers.

I know there is a 'delete history' facility in Windows Internet Explorer, but how effective that is I don't know.

I am assuming my 'privacy' software does an in-depth job (it says so on the label), but it would be interesting to see what others think.

What you need is here, it only erases the free space, so you must delete anything that you do not want anymore before using CCleaner:-

Using-ccleaner-wiping-free-disk-space

The best software that I know of to keep to keep "malware" away is "Malwarebytes", in conjunction with a good quality Anti Virus software like Kaspersky.....neither is expensive either....

See here:-

Malwarebytes

This should work:

http://ameri-shred.com/product-detail/hard-drive-shredders-series-2/

If the question is: can data on a HDD be permanently deleted/destroyed without rendering the drive useless - then answer is none that I know of with 100% certainty.

The cost/benefit analysis of those wanting to delete/hide data vs those wanting to recover it should give you an idea (depending on your statistical model) of the probability/confidence that the data will not be recoverable.

This should do it!!

Windows 7 operating system will wipe out a hard drive if you have admin rights, and install old software in XP service pack 2 mode and 2 instances of the installer open, causing data collision that overwrites the partitions on the hard drive.

I'll show you how to do it for a small fee

I would like to reply with a quite simple question: from WHOM do you want to hide the information from? If it is your wife / girlfriend / business partner ANY SOFTWARE intended for that use may be of help. If the reply is KGB, CIA or M5: forget it, go and boil the HDD in acid, and throw it into the ocean!

"If the reply is KGB, CIA or M5: forget it, go and boil the HDD in acid, and throw it into the ocean!"

And if the computer has been connected to the internet at ANY time while the data you want to remove was on the hard drive, the data most likely has been copied to a cloud server somewhere. At that point you will need to not only destroy the HDD that had the data, but every computer that is/was/will be connected to the internet, as well as any computer that could have received data from those computers.

In short, if you're trying to hide data from the government, sadly, you're hosed.

Unless that government is friendly toward you, they may actually help you hide the information.

So, maybe there is a software route to deleting data on a hard drive so that even the likes of the FBI are unlikely to succeed in recovery.

There are several cases in which the FBI has been unable to access hard drives they have seized that were encrypted with a program called Truecrypt. ( text editor doesn't play well with my phone, so here is a Wikipedia link... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueCrypt ).

Truecrypt is no longer a going concern, but another free version is available with some updates called Veracrypt ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeraCrypt ).

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So, if the FBI can't reliably break a system like this, it stands to reason that encrypting the drive in a hidden volume, deleting and over writing the data, making sure the encryption keys are not stored anywhere then overwriting the entire disk in safe mundane non encrypted data, should be pretty safe. If they can't get to data written on drives encrypted in this way, then I suspect they can't get to data that was deleted from the encrypted drives either.

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Just a WAG on my part, I'd enjoy being educated about the technical aspects of why those assumptions aren't reliable, if that is the case.

I liked your post. Well thought out and actually reasonably easily carried out.

Could be a good move for anyone really worried about what is on a hard disk AND do not want to simply wreck (and burn in a fire!) the disk itself......

For me personally it would be overkill (only the occasional Porn site that I unintentionally "trip" over) to worry about........nothing else that could interest anyone at all....

I myself simply do a DOD wipe several times (the full DOD wipe simply takes FAR too long!) before selling anything with a hard disk in it. If they can find anything after that, they are most welcome.......

Interesting about 'tripping' over 'unwanted' sites. But if it is 'accidental' then you do not know that the files have been downloaded. And even if you did accidentally visit the site, you you get hundreds of files you do not know about, or where they are, so you cannot overwrite them or delete the.

My prevoius post #23, and later from r&ddoc #30, and now you Andy #33, touch of low level security issues that could be tackled by basic programmes.

In fact so basic, to someone like me, where I sometimes have trouble finding and opening files when following the operating instructions.

But back to the intentional security issues, I use a 'privacy' programme. My concern is that after a long surfing session visiting dozens of sites, at the end of the day it 'finds' thousands of files that have been downloaded without my knowledge - thousands of them - 20k, 30k is typical - goodness knows what is in them.

In this day and age, your hard drive could be filled up with 'secret' stuff put there by hackers, terrorists, etc, to create smoke screens for themselves. The 'police' will then have their resources tied up on a wild goose chase, investigating hundreds of computers of innocent people, where to save time, will presume guilt on the flimsiest of evidence - and you get locked up.

You are right, these "drive-by" infestations is exactly why I recommended "Malwarebytes" to clean all that crap off.....

But I am sure that there is other software around that do a great job as well.....

Also, you need to remember to "clean" your browser as well, which is usually quite easy to do.....

Semtex 1.0!