Definition of Wiring

As a Manager who uses a lot of different contractors, if i were to stipulate"WIRING BETWEEN TWO PANELS" I would be expecting a complete job. I.E. all wiring, conduit, connectors, and miscellaneous materials to complete the job. Any time I veer from this I will state that customer will provide materials. (I maintain a large selection of electrical supplies)

Hope this helps!

"WIRING BETWEEN TWO PANELS" is completely ambiguous and does not delineate who is responsible for parts or labor nor does it in any way provide the clarity required to satisfy and/or avoid contractual disputes or litigation.

I deal with this often and a two sentence contract that I recently dealt with sticks out as being the worst and most costly contract I have ever had to manage.

Because there were no clear definitions stated in the agreement the entire project was a continuous stream of "change order required", "addendum required" and everyday arguments at the site.

This was without a doubt the worst contract I have ever been involved in.

No schedules, timelines, or milestones were ever met resulting in the agreement running six months past the original end date with the cost more than double the original contract budget.

It is very important for both parties to identify, break out, and list all of the exact details of the installation before entering into any agreement.

"WIRING BETWEEN TWO PANELS" is a sentence fragment that identifies just the object of the sentence. Alone it means nothing.

It appears to me that you have a communication problem here.

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place."

George Bernard Shaw

Does the statement "WIRING BETWEEN TWO PANELS" stated in a Contract specification mean- to install the wires only or it includes also the supply of the materials i.e. the supply of wires and accessories such as fixtures, glands etc.,?
When I was working as a General Building Contractor,and writing all my own contracts, the statement "WIRING BETWEEN TWO PANELS" to me means the contractor will supply the conduit or buss way, wires and connectors. I DO NOT read that they are going to supply anything other than that! For me, the spec should read as follows.

1. Furnish labor and materials to connect Electric box "A" to Electric box "B" as per NEC XXXX using 3" EMT
2. Furnish labor and materials to install "X" amount of circuit breakers in Electric box "A" and Electric box "B".
3. The number of circuits planned to be installed are 45. If the number of circuits exceeds the specified amount then every extra installed circuit will be $XX.XX per circuit / wire / breaker / conduit.
4. ETC. ETC. ETC.........................

Vague references like this are open to interpretation and the contractor will interpret the contract to his favor and can do so very easily with a statement in a SIGNED contract that says "WIRING BETWEEN TWO PANELS" that can mean so many different things. You need a clarification on that statement before they start the job!

Or this can be you!!!

By supplying only a fragment of a complete paragraph or sentence, we can only guess as to the real meaning. But if I had someone parse out fragments of my specification like this, then deliver two control panels plus a box of wire and fittings claiming that constituted "wiring between panels", I would consider that grounds for non-performance. I would then hire someone else to finish it and withhold that cost from the suppliers contract.

After that, it's for the lawyers to sort out, buteven if ultimately I lost, I would NEVER allow that supplier to bid again.

do you know how to operate a telephone? don't ask a forum!

I hope you are still negotiating the contract!

Vague wording for a bid spec and then responding in unclear terms will provide the grounds for future litigation. Only the lawyers win, because they don't care about what is justice but only what is legal. Legal does not equal justice.

When unclear wording in the request for quote is unclear, always bring this to the attention of the prospective customer. Be sure your quote is absolutely clear in what you are providing. If it is a sealed bid, then clearly identify what your scope of supply will be. This is extremely important.

No matter what, neither party wants the cost of litigation. So avoid the situation up front as best you can.

If you already have the contract - you are in a difficult position. What is the cost to "bite the bullet" versus litigation and loss of reputation? It may be an expensive lesson to learn.

The SOW (Statement of Work - usually section III) will define the scope of the different disciplines. The Applicable documents (Usually Section II) will give you the reference(s) for the applicable disciplines. It will also delineate the place of type and inspection.

If the contract (I assume there is a contract) has neither SOW nor AD, and you signed the document, shame on you.

Good Luck on this one

Good question. Is 'wiring' a noun or verb? Is it both in this context? If i called an electrician to 'wire' my house it is understood that he would provide materials ( noun ) and also perform the task (verb). If, however i was wanting changes to an oil field i would draft a very tight specification as i may want an installation that exceeds the standard OR maybe a quick and temporary one that can be done to the minimum. Either way i would have to spell out exactly what i wanted. The originator may not know what s/he wants and so it is left up to you to 'do it right'. Clearly there is a need to talk to the originator.
Jim

of course this (typically) includes everything to furnish and install.

the SOW SHOULD be more specific, but if it isnt, and your the contractor, talk with the project manager and meet or exceed his / her expectations.

You should ask the Consultant whether it is only control cables or both power and control cables according to his drawings and whether it include testing and commissioning. Before estimating for this job everything should be clarified.

Obviously it will be more appropriate to state in a Contract that "Contractor shall supply, install, test and terminate all required cabling" between for example Panel 1 and Panel 2. Also supply should be deleted from the above statement in case the supply of wiring is not required.

If only wiring is mentioned, the context should be verified with other detail spilled out in the Contract

There is your first "RFI" (request for information) since you did not give more details regarding the contract documents. Secondly, I assume since you have specs, in either Div 16 or 26 (depending upon which CSI was used for your project specs) there will be approved manufacturer(s) for the panels which may also designate who is to provide....if there are drawings, on the panel schedule sheet(s), under the schedule(s) there will be "notes" and this is also where it may designate if the Owner is providing. I would suspect an Owner would not have an advantage breaking it up this way, providing the electrical components, to avoid the potential warranty impacts, disrupting a turn key installation and warranty. I see FBO (furnished by Owner) on major HVAC equipment and plumbing equipment but not panels. Even then it is usually "chains" (Walmart etc) ) who have global/national purchase agreements with manufacturers. RFI dude....and ask your estimator what he/she included. Regardless of that though, the EOR interpretation will trump....any clarification on an item like this should be addressed during precon....not executing the project.

It depends, but generally yes.

I am assuming you are at the quoting stage? If so, make sure you know how far away the panels are and if they are on the same floor (for example) and if special conduit, supports, firestopping material, etc are also required. Don't want to find out later that you under budgeted.

Are you expected to install it too? Better check that also.

Always physically verify the distances shown in the specs.I have encountered a case where the dimensions in spec were shortened by 10%,resulting in a loss of profit at the end of project.Do not be gullible and change work without a change order signed and in hand,some companies will try to talk you into doing this,then deny it when the bill comes due.

ALL labor and parts should be defined in the original contract.

Just a heads up for the beginning contractors.

So true. Applicable to building contracts as well.

I once spent several hours discussing with a potential client what they wanted. I then did a sketch to scale and presented that along with my quote. A short time later my sketch, minus title block and copyright logo, came back to me from a landscaping company asking me to quote on this "to scale" drawing.

The client wanted a 9M x 6M al fresco area attached to the rear of their house. The "to scale" drawing showed it as 6M x 4.5M. The indication that the ground wasn't level had also been removed. I tried to warn the landscaper that he was dealing with a nasty bastard but he thought i was the dodgy one.

Jim

Hint 1: one wouldn't be able to commission it were the job to be incomplete.

Hint 2: no professional Electrician would install otherwise than in compliance with the regulations prevailing in the location of the installation.

Does that help?

7-1/2 years later, I don't think he cares...

That is a very ambiguous term.Demand further definition(scope of work) before proceeding with the contract.Punctuation is very important,as a single comma can make the difference between profit and loss..Have an experienced contract attorney examine carefully and in detail,all matters of the contract.Seems to be very loosely described,which is an open pit for everyone.

Here is a link where a single comma cost a company millions of dollars:

https://www.thoughtco.com/punctuation-matters-1691746

Read and heed.

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