Any Experience in the Repair of Failed Double Pane Windows

Wow, even at 10 years old.... Their technology must be way outdated.

I would ask to talk they the representives manager. 10 years is ridicules.

If it's still under warranty, they send a service tech out and refill the gas i between the pains..... And if it's out of warranty, you have to pay a service fee.

I agree, about their technology and warranty .... but it is what we had 10 years ago!

As the climate is very mild in most of our country, the double insulated windows industry was poorly developed.

Now there is a large number of companies doing double panes and quality of the process seems to have improved a lot (at least, they now offer a lifetime warranty)

I will request a visit of their techincians to see what they offer

if you are not for any reason able to handle it yourself, which would usually be the cheapest method here, then get several quotes to replace just the glass, unless replacing the whole window is only slightly more cost.....which is possible.

Or, simply replace just the ones with a problem, assuming that they look the same as the old ones, or close to...

Best of luck and please tell us what you do in the end....

A relative of mine, had this problem ..... 12-13 years ago. I could remember if it was under warranty, or had a life time warranty?. But basically how he described it to me they used a syringe type tool. I don't know if they purged the air out and insert an inert gas or what. Would like to know how the manufacturers actual response was, and what can be done to repair it.... I myself would not buy any product for them if the answer was, replace with new.

Actually, if I were the manufacturer my advise would also have been to "replace with new" ;-) Business is business.... I am completely aware that the seal has failed and pumping some stuff in (even if cosmetic result is ok) just means treating the symptom and not the root of the problem. But right now I have a lot of more interesting things in mind I would be happy to spend 10 grants in rather than replacing those f***g panes!

even new windows with lifetime warranty's, the seals fail to retain its seal and windows need to be brought up to spec. again.

How it was done, was with a tool that looked like a hypodermic needle, they purged the space in between the window and removed the needle, the gasket resealed it's self.

The more quality windows has this built into the design, I'm just surprised did have that....... unless that how they are built.

These warranties have been figured out pretty accurately (the statisticians are pretty sharp) ...... I had a 10 year warranty on my water heater, and after 10 years, 2 months, it leaked where I have it replaced.

Thanks for the input! As a matter of fact, during my search I also came across the same video and sites. Unless someone here says he injected stuff into the windows ... and that it works (not very probable) I leave them as they are until getting used to the idea of having them replaced....

We replaced 4 glass units in patio doors under warranty from Peachtree Doors. The labor was not included. One reason was our altitude at 9300 feet makes a seal more difficult to maintain.

This sentence is not for me very clear:-

The panes are 10 years old, and the manufacturer said that their warranty is due because (by that time) they did not have the technology they have now, which grants a lifetime warranty.

Did you mean that the warranty has expired time wise?

Or did you mean that the manufacturer is not going to honour his (still active?) warranty?

(Warranty here is usually 25 years.)

If the warranty is still active, then the manufacturer should replace all the glass panels and return the windows to a pristine condition at HIS cost. Thats why we (all of us) like long term guarantees!

If you are unable to get the proper help from the company in spite of a guarantee, use your legal methods to sue him for both the window costs and the cost of suing him.

If that is not possible and you are going to have to pay for glass replacement yourself, I would (if it was me!) make a video, showing the problems and post it with the name of the company and that they won't help or honour their guarantee which is still active on YouTube....

Here, for such a basic problem, even if the guarantee is finished, suing them would probably get financial assistance at least.

Also, if possible, and there are "Rating sites" where you can put an online "Rating" for this company, post an accurate by negative rating....I do this also on ebay for anything I buy that does not match up with the ad.

It won't make your costs any less, but you will stop other people making the same mistake and it will make you feel better too......

I personally feel that replacing the gas in the panel will only be a short term fix at best (guessing only) as the desiccant really also needs to be replaced.....

In your place I would measure the "Panes" carefully, leaving several millimeters of "looseness" and purchase new sealed and finished panes.

Replacing such panes in modern windows is actually quite easy using some simple tools....thats what I would do......

If you are unsure, get professional help to simply pop out a pane, just to show you what tools are required and how easy it is to do yourself, or get one to do the whole job.....

I would buy new panes, made to my sizes, on ebay, that would save me at least 50% over a local company, in spite of delivery costs....

In 2008, I replaced all my windows with modern double glazed security steel ones. The old ones were double glazed with wood frames, BUT, not a single one had that problem of leaks!!! They were almost 50 years old!!! Fitted by the previous owner.....

Only the hinges were a bit worn as was the "kipping" (I don't know what its called in English, sorry!) mechanisms and the seals were not as good...which was of course why I replaced them!!

Best of luck!!

You are right: that statement was not very clear! what I did not say is that (by that time) the manufacturer offered a 5 year warranty, which (obviously) was expired when my panes started failing (or showing symptoms of failure) as 10 years passed since purchase date.

As previuosly mentioned: nowadays, the same manufacturer offers a lifetime warranty. (too late for me! )

Andy, good advice. What you write makes a lot of sense and from a business perspective, it's what a good company should do - honor their warranty.

I have not seen any one reccomending resealing a failed IGU(Insulated Glass Unit).

The fogging on the glass would still be there. Which could be mineral deposits or etching on the low-e coating. Any glass repair shop should be able to replace the IGU.

One of the biggest causes of these units failing is poor drainage. Water setting between the panes of glass freezes and pushes the panes apart breaking the seal. The other is the Low-E coating. Soft coats are more effcient. It is a surface treatment. If not remove from the surface of the seal. The metals used will corrode from the outside in.

I have the feeling that the fogging is produced by silica-gel that (over the time) became pulverized due to vibration and heat-pump effect and getting distributed over the the glass by static electricity.

Even though Silicon rubber has good UV Resistance, over time they can eventually break down. I don't believe this is the case. Did you replace are all your windows 10 years ago, and all have failed?

These are no replacement windows, as the entire house was built 10 years ago. Only some windos failed (so far).

Being optimistic, it´s just a matter of time!

Silica gel where is that used in a window? Have not seen it as a problem before.

I do know that in new construction they can use some cheap products.

You may have a glass shop locally that does IGU replacements.

yes, there is a sort of aluminum strip between both glasses, which should contain silica gel. Local glass shops do not repair these panels.... and I am, not very happy in just throwing them away and purchasing new ones....

10 years old the aluminum strip is most likely a roll formed tube shape. Which a bead dessicant was put inside. Composition of which I don't know. What I have seen looks like a blend of material. One of which could be silica.

I understand the desire not waste the IGU if they could be repaired. First is getting the IGU out of the sash frame. They have been sealed with a sealant. Cutting thru it and forcing the glass out with out braking the glass is the first problem. Can be done with care. Then depending to what level of repair to the IGU you want to do. It can be sealed with some chalk and put back in. If you want the fogging gone you have to separate the glass to clean it off. Which is hard to do with out damaging the spacer. The sealant there is usually a butyl rubber. Simular to the old sealant that came in a can to seal glass in a aquarium. Best bet is to use a hot knife to cut thru it and to scrape it from the spacer. Once the parts are clean there is a two part polysufide sealant that can be used as a replacement for the butyl sealant.

It's all up to you in what your times worth. To me as I have done it before. Not worth the time, effort or fustration when the glass brakes.

The windows I replaced in 2008 were almost 50 years old and were silicone rubber sealed and the sealing was still perfect.....it was dark red in colour if that makes a difference (or not!)

It was still holding the glass to the frame (wood) perfectly on all windows.Inside and out if I remember correctly....

r&ddoc,

I may sound a little crass but, if the manufacturers warranty was 5 years and you got 10 years from the windows before they started failing then I believe you've gotten your money's worth.

A 5 year warranty is probably the lowest warranty from any window manufacturer.

Typically it is the sealing material that fails and with the expansion and contraction with hot and cold weather it causes the inert gas in-between the panes to slowly leak out and when the gas leaks out it lets the gasses in the atmosphere back into the window space.

The only remedy is to replace the glass panes in the frames. Any competent glass company can do that for you.

This time put a little more money into the quality of glass panes. I believe that there are also triple pane assemblies that are available now.

I guess it would also be wise to figure out how long you expect to live in that house and get the panes with the warranty that meets your time frame in how long you will own the house.

Once again, a 5 year warranty is typical for a low quality window!

Good luck

"get the panes with the warranty that meets your time frame in how long you will own the house."

I´m 62, so it seems quite adequate to call my doctor to ask how much time he guesses I´m gonna live!

I like your sense of humor.

If only my doctor could tell me exactly HOW long I have left on this earth, then I could really budget my money and leave this earth with a PILE of unpaid debt and not a nickel in the bank account!

My point is, once you have condensation inside the panes, pretty much you're screwed!

I would suggest replacing the windows that are used the most for any type of activity I.E.

• The front windows
• The kitchen
• The master bedroom
• Or the window(s) with the worst "fogging".

You don't need to replace every window at once, you can do it piece meal. This may cost a bit more in the long run, but you wont have to shell out a pile of money all at once.Good luck

LOL!!!

This is common with low cost windows and I have been through this in the past.

The leaks are caused by shrinkage of the window glazing/seal material.

The window pane housings are removable and they have a small charging port and evacuation port located in the housing between the panes of glass that is accessible for purging and recharging the unit using specialty equipment.

The ports are filled with a rubber compound that allows a syringe to be inserted through the port into the area between the panes of glass.

The port material is designed so that it re-seals when the syringe is removed much as a medicine vial cap.

In my case after several repeated attempts to recharge the windows and suffering a great deal of frustration, I replaced the window pane housings with updated units and the problem went away.

There are several companies that offer direct replacement window pane housings that are reasonably priced and easy to install in the existing window frame(s).

I would opt for finding a window company (Maybe the original OEM?) that can provide lifetime warranty window housings that will fit into your existing window frames and change the windows as they fail.

I don't have a solution, but am experiencing the same problem with our rental property. The windows are about 20 years old, but some have been foggy for around 10 years. It's the upper half of five windows (two different sides of the house) as well as all the windows in the upper part of the front door.

The house is going on the market so we'll see what happens as a result of the home inspection!

Is it a property you rent, or one you rent out?

I was totally unsure what you meant from your post.....quite a difference too!!

If you are selling it, surely that will play holy hell with the price you might get.....if you want to buy it, a good reason to knock the price down heavily....

Property we rented to tenants. We are selling it now.

I agree, it'll probably lead to some negotiation in price. Otherwise, the property is in great condition!

There are only a couple of things that a prospective buyer / realtor can say about the windows:

1. The space between the glass sheets is the insulation.
2. You can tell them that the inert gas in-between the glass can be replaced. But only if they ask!
3. The "foggyness" is cosmetic and does not affect the insulating properties.
4. The windows being approx. 20 years old are about ready for replacement as the frames are probably a little difficult to operate and after 20 years in the weather, there are some things to be expected.
5. I wouldn't give the prospective buyer or the realtor(s) any extra info on the house, that is what a home inspection is for. Remember, Buyer Beware!
6. Do you look inside the walls to see what type of plumbing or electrical you have. No!
7. Let the realtor sell your house and you stay away from offering any information. The realtor will do an assessment and let you know what may be an issue. If the buyer brings it up, tell them the windows are 20 years old, remember, they are buying a USED house. If you buy a used car, you expect some stuff to be less that perfect!

Trust me, we are not offering up anything! Prospective buyers are welcome to have home inspections performed. We are also not filling out a property condition disclosure; instead, offering $500 to the buyer at closing per our attorney's recommendation.

Luckily the windows do operate pretty well, despite the fogginess. My solution while living there was always to leave the blinds partway down. I couldn't see the problem and it didn't bother me.

Good idea.

When I was a Licensed General Contractor in California, I performed many (MANY) "pre" and "post" sale home inspections.

My realtor loved me and the other realtors hated me because I was so thorough in my inspections.

Though, the window issues you have were not very high on my list because the houses I was dealing with were built in the 40's and 50's (one house was built in 1921) so some glass degradation was expected.

However, the operation of the windows was VERY important.

Most of the houses I inspected had double hung wood single pane glazed glass and too many people painted the sash runner (BAD MOVE) and ended up paying me lots of money to get them working correctly.

It was either that or totally replace the entire window because at that time the "slip in" replacements were not yet developed and as per building and fire code, the window must operate easily for safety egress.

I'd let the realtor do his/her job. I wouldn't want to talk to the prospective buyer - you never know what can spook them and the sale is gone.

That's why we pay our RE agents their 5-6%. Let them earn it.

The seals have failed once this happens the descant absorbs as much moisture as it can and then you get condensation.That condensation once dried usually leaves a frosty looking film that does not come off even when you take the glass apart and try to physically clean it.The act of taking a residential unit apart(usually 1/16" single strenth glass) without breaking it is very difficult,danderous and time consuming this is why replacement is the answer.Most insulated units do not contain gas they are dehydrated air.The gas filled units increase the performance of the unit however over time those gases tend to migrate through the seal and lose the small advantage they provided.I recomend a dual seal unit primary hot melt butyle secondary polysufide and the industry wide standard warranty is 10 years.The number one enemy of insulated glass or laminated glass is not having an active weap system to move moisture away from the edge of glass miratic acid that is used widely to clean bricks will quikly destroy all sealant to glass bonds.

Dear Gassman, you gave me the answer I am not willing to hear :-( Thank you!

There are a lot of good answers provided. I'd like to give you my recommendation.

What went wrong? 10 years ago, a new home should've had a much longer warranty on the windows. I'm assuming it was a tract home built by a major builder (KB, Lennar, Pardee, etc). If so, they contract out all the work and they spec out the cheapest materials. The cheap price buys low quality in volume - that's what happened.

What can you do? Depends on how long you plan to live there and your desire for quality.

1. If you're going to live in the house a long time, you should invest in a top grade window like Anderson. You'll pay more, but the quality is far superior and they will be lifetime windows (and if they do break, the company will honor the warranty). If you don't want to spend as much, but want a good window, I like Pella. I think they're a good quality window at a much more reasonable price.

2. If you plan to live there for 10 years of so, I'd look into changing out the glass only. You can order dual pane glass that should fit in the window frames. I had to change some windows due to breakage at one of my rentals. It was a lot easier than I thought. Our frames are vinyl and have screws that hold them in place. The fixed window also came out pretty easy - it has vinyl channels with rubber seals.

3. If you're lucky, you may be able to buy new windows with frames that fit. Lowes sells Pella windows - cheaper grade, but okay windows in standard sizes. If you find them, it's not too difficult to change them. Try not to damage the underlayment when you remove the old windows. The new windows just screw in place (or you can nail them in). If you're fairly handy, you can do this yourself.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

Hi Autobroker, I agree with you that many good answers were provided, and will reply to your questions: I live outside the US (Argentina) and as the climate is mild in most of our country, double panes entered in the market no so long ago (perhaps 15 years or so). The technology and materials used then were probably outdated... but as almost none had experience and they looked Ok, many bought them. Now there are large companies like Pilkington and Saint Gobain in the business, and the quality has really improved a lot (too late for me). My initial idea was to try to repair them, cause I hate throwing repairable things away. On the other hand, If I ask for an advise, I take it into account if reasonable. One member (can't recall who right now) explained the dangers / risks involving the repair of the panes... so, it is an option I have discarded. Unfortunately I will take the expensive road an have them replaced for new panes.... "When" is something still to be decided, but it will happen as soon as I "digest" the idea of spending a lot of money in such a unpleasant matter.

Hi r&ddoc,

I've not read all the threads but check out this site clearwindowtech.com

Sorry if it's a duplication.

Best regards,

John.

Thank you John!