Appropriate Punishment for Misuse of Laser Pen

Then the lawyers will line up for the kill.

It's treated seriously here in the UK.

Jail for a couple of months 1st offense, 2nd offense a couple of years in the big house...

"Jail for a couple of months 1st offense, 2nd offense a couple of years in the big house..."

They want to make sure you are serious before committing you. ;-)

Let's just hope your not taking that pole in the eye or some other cavity! :-)

However, that may be a suitable punishment for the infraction you cite.

I was surprised to find out that the sentence for this crime is as little as it is. It seems like a couple of months for a first offense. It should be years given the potential harm that could result. They need to make some very PUBLIC examples of these people when they get caught.

I am not sure what an appropriate punishment is but I have been giving some thought to such behaviour. I think one big problem is establishing intent in addition to, as noted in the previous comment, actual harm done vs. potential harm.

For instance, if a terrorist wanted to cause a plane to crash using a laser pen, he could intentionally aim it at a plan. If a child (most likely a boy) wanted to be mischievous, he could do the same thing. On the one hand you have an individual deliberately trying to inflict maximum harm on others. On the other hand, you have an ignorant kid just trying to be annoying and most likely not even know the potential damage he could cause.

Another possibility is that a non-mischievous child is playing with a laser pen and realizes "hey!!! this is really cool", look how far the light goes. Let's see if it can reach that house across the street....how about that sign at the end of the block.....or those tress across the lake.....look, there's a plane up there, I wonder if...."

Do laser pens need to be kept under lock and key like a weapon because of the potential for harm?

Let's hope the ignorant kid becomes less ignorant before the parent hands the laser pointer. I didn't intend to kill him, I just wondered how much pressure it would take on the trigger to release the hammer.

I will say that given the media coverage, every kid already knows this is a bad thing. If not, some very PUBLIC examples will help that.

...every kid already knows this is a bad thing.
Sadly, I am not sure if this is true. And I'm not even sure if we could say every adult knows it either. Some are more interested in Dancing With the Stars or the Kardashians than what's going on in the World.

I'm afraid you are more right than I want to believe.

Off with their heads, I say! Too many in jail already.... or let them play in a cage that lives under a Fresnel Lens out in the sun. Maybe even a cylindrical lens configurations to draw a line in the sand box. That way, they can decide whether to be hungry or thirsty, with food on one end and water on the other.

Or, just make it easy, and use the guillotine, first offense, every offense. No second offenders. Crime plummets quickly. People generally will get the idea, especially if the be-headings are public (on the news).

I am not advocating doing this to innocent Christians, IR1, just the evildoers weighting down our society, and polluting the gene pool with their inbred stupidity.

As long as holders and users of illegal handguns are dealt WORSE, then I agree!!

Inanimate objects are incapable of reading, understanding, or complying with law in an of themselves. A handgun could only be illegal in the sense that it is (a) defined to be a configuration (full auto) that is inherently unsafe to public good., or (b) in the hands of an unlicensed person in a zone that requires a permit, or is a gun-free zone.

I firmly believe that the person who uses a firearm in the commission of a felony crime, especially where the death of a victim takes place, should receive capital punishment, and that not by lethal injection, but by firing squad. Much less expensive in the long run, and always effective, and completely irreversible once the sentence has been carried out.

Great idea! I think I would change the rocket to be a permanent dye dispersant type that would mark the offenders so that law enforcement can find them and then they should be shipped to Korea where they will receive a total body massage with multiple bamboo canes executed by a group of masters.

After catching them, how about the "perps" get marked with a special permanent marker, that takes weeks to go away, across the forehead and both cheeks, wording to be set by the judge.....and if ever caught with covering makeup, they go behind bars for the same length of time......say 3 months min, no matter how old or young.

Also, why cannot the aircraft front windows also be active filters for the various laser wavelengths.....simply block them!

Also, eventually, something that gives an instant location of the pointer, something useful to the police, without needing any other input other than GPS!!

I forgot my magic lantern to day......sadly!! As I don't think either will really happen!!!

Its a difficult and dangerous problem.....

Let "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" take care of the perps.

i wouldn't disagree with that, but suggest that for a first offence, five years in absolute darkness. Blindfold padlocked on, in a darkroom.

& yank lawyers can stick it with their cries of 'cruel & unusual ...............'

Anyone got a better punishment that 'fits the crime?'

Or, fit the planes with mini (1 person) laser guided weapons - perhaps a vaporizer.

Don't even need to bother the cops!

How about equipping the aircraft with a laser tracker/aiming device that sends a dazzler pulse back to the perpetrator with enough energy to cause temporary blinding (say 10 minutes or so).

Like a corner reflecter.

"the power of lasers that these morons can obtain is no laughing matter either"
Perhaps the power and beam dispersal for pointers is what needs to be regulated.All the laser pointers I have had are positively wimpy and disperse very rapidly - rather poor optics I would say.What legitimate need is there for a "laser pointer" of high wattage and a collimated light beam that can go thousands of feet?OK for approved survey work - but just a pointer?

How easy (or difficult) is it to aim a laser pen at a moving target of 0.2 inch diameter (dilated pupil) say 250 yards away? How much does the beam diverge or scatter in that distance? Some actual data could be helpful.

Maybe they could just return fire?

√

milliwatts in, -

Kilowatts out.

Maybe some sort of electronic "shutter" like a welding helmet integrated into the windscreen? And a tracking monitor to record the source co-ordinates

See post #23 for extra exclamation!!!!

Well you could have a bandblock filter but it would only be for a specific wavelength.

Just give the pilot laser safe sun glasses. They ware sun glasses anyway.

Even when flying at night????????

I am surprised!!!

The idea may still be good, say tinted ones for day and clear safety laser, well almost, for night flying.

Or like mine, they go light and dark like my glasses, depending upon the amount of UV they receive or not!!

But I have no idea what pilot regulations have to say......someone here will!!

I would also say, that maybe some small planes are even more at risk than airliners.......they fly lower and are longer "in the line of fire" that the bigger ones.....

Problem is the laser light is in the visible spectrum so blocking filters block the visual info pilots need to fly. Military has worked on notch filters for specific narrow band frequencies without much luck. Nuclear bomber crews had electronically activated quick-acting Q-filters to protect against blast flash blindness of short duration but if a laser stays on you, you are effectively blinded by the protective device. What is needed is a head-mounted virtual display that limits the transmission of light to safe levels. Currently too expensive - will need to crash a few loaded commercial planes first.

Actually, all the lasers I have seen have been at specific wavelengths....I have myself never seen one that covered many wavelengths, certainly not openly available.....as far as I am aware.

Though I have to admit that I am not laser savvy in many respects.....here to learn as well....

I found the following on Wiki, which I personally take as meaning certain wavelengths are fairly standard and if the wavelength being used fairly accurate. If only the specific wavelengths were blocked, vision would hardly be affected, slight lost of a particular color...

Few powerful lasers are portable, except for the military of course, but even then, they won't fit in your pocket, so mainly the problems will be "Souped up" laser pointers at worst.....

Colors and wavelengths

Early laser pointers were helium-neon (HeNe) gas lasers and generated laser radiation at 633 nanometer (nm), usually designed to produce a laser beam with an output power under 1 milliwatt (mW). The least expensive laser pointers use a deep red laser diode near the 650 nanometers (nm) wavelength. Slightly more expensive ones use a red-orange 635 nm diode, more easily visible because of the greater sensitivity of the human eye at 635 nm. Other colors are possible too, with the 532 nm green laser being the most common alternative. Yellow-orange laser pointers, at 593.5 nm, later became available. In September 2005 handheld blue laser pointers at 473 nm became available. In early 2010 "Blu-ray" (actually violet) laser pointers at 405 nm went on sale.

The apparent brightness of a spot from a laser beam depends on the optical power of the laser, the reflectivity of the surface, and the chromatic response of the human eye. For the same optical power, green laser light will seem brighter than other colors because the human eye is most sensitive at low light levels in the green region of the spectrum (wavelength 520-570 nm). Sensitivity decreases for redder or bluer wavelengths.

The output power of a laser pointer is usually stated in milliwatts (mW). In the U.S. lasers are classified by the American National Standards Institute^[2] and Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Visible laser pointers (400-700 nm) operating at less than 1 mW power are Class 2 or II, and visible laser pointers operating with 1-5 mW power are Class 3A or IIIa. Class 3B or IIIb lasers generate between 5 and 500 mW; Class 4 or IV lasers generate more than 500 mW. The US FDA Code of Federal Regulations stipulates that "demonstration laser products" such as pointers must comply with applicable requirements for Class I, IIa, II, or IIIa devices.^[3]

You haven't piloted an aircraft at night, have you? Most every pilot turns all the instrument back light down to barely a glow and if any light is needed for like checking maps or approach plates, they usually use a red pen light. I've experienced being lite up at night with a laser and it's no laughing matter. As far punishment goes- attempted murder comes to mind and sentenced accordingly. And if the incident involves a death- Murder in the first degree- with life sentence served in Maricopa County Jail under the watchful eye of Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

You said basically what I expected any pilot would say.....

I doubt if the situation will get much better as time goes on.....probably worse!!

Now I use an automatic welding helmet (for welding of course!!), which when I start to weld, automatically filters the light (very bright!!) from the weld, down to a tiny part of what it was before....REALLY FAST!!

Mine works also if flash photography is used near it, its how I test that the batteries are charged!!!

Now I don't have a laser of any wavelength (color!) to use for testing, but that might possibly even be a way to go when flying low, even at night.....naturally, of a far better quality and speed than my "cheapo" ebay helmet.

For anyone who has (or is still!) welding with the old hand held face mask, this helmet is like being born again, simply no comparison. Bought on ebay some 10 years ago for less than the equivalent of $100. They can only have got better since then......

Now how about one for pilots!!!

I believe that military pilots are using protective goggles, but I think they are band-pass filters.

As with any technology on aircraft it requires an extraordinary amount of testing as a failure of a critical system could lead to catastrophic loss.

I agree, but surely, even if an early model "fails" a) they fail "open" b) easily taken off.....

It would appear that something needs to be done and really fast!!!

Also, as the welding versions have been around for years, the technology is basically available and proven....in fact I would go as far as to say that any single pilot would actually be better off in such situations by using ANY welding helmet......even if not legal.

With two pilots onboard, maybe one with and one without??

The idea for a civilian pilot helmet I bequeath to humanity!!

Trust me. Aviation certification is not that simple and if there was a simple solution, there are brighter minds than myself that would have long ago solved it.

You ain't kidding, just the paper work to STC a new radio aboard a light civil aircraft is about 5 pounds, but that includes the intentionally left blank pages that are required by the FAA

For a first offense, use a 1000-watt laser to cut off (and simultaneously cauterize) some fingers.

For a second offense, use a 5000-watt laser to cut off a wrist or two.

For a third offense, use 15,000-watt laser to cut off the head.

WOW!!!

But I am sure many air passengers would agree 100% with you......

Have you been listening to Gilbert & Sullivan's The Mikado lately?

My object all sublime,
I shall achieve in time:
To let the punishment fit the crime,
The punishment fit the crime.

I would start with life long ban from avaition transport.

Second case: no drivers license neigther. Who want's such idiots being able to drive a car.

But it all should start with stopping to sell these pointers.

There is no reason for the normal public to have them.

I've been hit and miss with following cr4, but glad to see your still hanging out in the ..... cr4 stuff

I've been out for nearly 2 years, but I'm back in town now

The general mentality seams to heve changed a bit.

Less new subjects each day

Subject them to police brutality......."an eye for an eye" principle works for me.

over there yes, but here there is less of that problem

I feel the perpetrator should be made to share the drum of a large commercial clothes dryer with two 16Lb Brunswick bowling balls.

An Exocet missile comes to mind, ideally one that can use the light beam as a target lock.

A bench vise, tightened on the offending hand, the handle removed,a rusty handsaw provided and the garage set ablaze, comes to mind.

How about a laser guided laser?

Reading all the responses her and realizing that the problem is common knowlege lets one wonder why the authorities did not step in yet and required all laser owners to register the possession of such device irrespective of the strenth and colour band to be recorded and license to be issued for specific use. All sales must require pre licensing and application for use. Possession of such device without a license to be treated the same as unlicensed fire arms with same punishment as with fire arms.

Some developing nations don't even manage to deal with gun sales regulations, let's not think they will cope with "flashlight" sales

Example: Pepperspray is prohibited in Belgium but freely sold in France, as there are no borders it is used in personal conflicts.

Good point.

Here its even stranger, you can buy it, but you are only allowed to use it on animals, not humans!!! As if anyone worries!!! Its far cheaper than the version for humans only, whatever that is!!

It could kill a dog, so unless he wants to bite me (and I have a can handy), I would not use it on animals....

I don't actually have a can of anything like that.....

I hate to say it, but its simply too late for most if not all countries. There are millions of laser pointers out there now. It should have been done from the first laser.

Dozens of countries would need to follow suite.

Who would finance the costs?

Its rather like certain countries where many people have unlicensed weapons.....in comparison, laser pointers are small beer.

Take the offenders to the nearest AFB where they have the flying laser guns, and expose them to that! Or to the nearest USN base that has the latest detroyer fleet at port with the laser cannons, and expose them to that!

OR, you could just shine a heat lamp on their foreheads for about 6-8 hours, thus replacing the former lobotomy procedures of the 1930's.

My first thought on the subject was along the lines of "What does a laser light look like to the pilots?"

Here are a few pictures taken from this site along with an interesting chart:

The second picture is kinda what is was like when I got lit up, I was forced to do a go around and in doing so I also opted for the holding pattern for 6 minutes to locate the SOB! No, we never caught them either.

Every crime, and this is a crime, leaves a trace.

Yes, and some crimes are gonna leave a mark!

I still think the passenger airliners, cargo planes, and even military planes, or private corporate jets should have the ability to fire something like dye packs at these little varmints with the laser pointers.

My personal preference would be Agent Orange dye (or at least a nice orange color, to match the jumpsuits they will soon be wearing. The next thing the perps should see after they dye packs should a myriad of little red dots bouncing about on their chest, and the ERT, (also known as SWAT). After they surrender, they should be treated as nicely as any other felony suspect, and locked up awaiting arrainment.

WARNING! THIS DEVICE EMITS AN INVISIBLE PULSE CODE SERIAL NUMBER WHICH CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE OPERATOR.

These were mounted on the wings of S2E Trackers. Carbon arc, 120 amps @ 28VDC.