NY Prisoner Escape: Cutting of Pipe a "Professional Job"

Do they have rehabilitation training at that facility? Nothing like learning a useful trade.

I'll wait for the movie,..... I hear its called " Escape " and its coming out next week.

If the prisoners are not caught by then,... when they are caught, the sequel will be called " Escape II - The Return"

Read an article that said a third escapee named Luke "Lucas" Jackson got out also. He had a reputation for eating eggs in large quantities. The Guards used to tell him that "What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Also about eating fifty hard boiled eggs and chain gangs.

Remind you of anybody?

Good Luck, Old Salt

I don't understand that at all. In the Guards' quote, there are 1 we, 2 hes, 3 its and 3 yous, and I can't see what they all mean. Perhaps I'm being slow, but can you explain? What has it all to do with eating eggs?

Movie quotes.

Maybe he was allergic to eggs and broke out with the hives.

Was that the film with Paul Newman by any chance?

'Cool Hand Luke"

Cool Hand Luke - Starring Paul Newman

"Cool Hand Luke". Paul Newman, 1967. One of the best US movies created during the Baby Boomer period. It is the story of a defiant jail prisoner on a road gang. There are still many quotes from the movie that are used today. Still runs on US television after 48 years.

One of the best scenes in the movie is when Luke eats fifty (50) hard boiled eggs within an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3CPz21NzUc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Hand_Luke

http://www.filmsite.org/cool.html

Try it, you'll like it!

Good Luck, Old Salt

George Kennedy was also an excellent supporting actor.

didn't get a chance to read the article, but I understand that the guard supplied the inmates with plumbing/pipe fitter tools.

Well these guys weren't thieves, the're people who have killed somebody....so I'm not surprised that they have work experience...People in prison work at various jobs which include taking care of the prison...some prisons are working farms where the prisoners grow their own food and sell the excess for expenses....some even get work release where they leave the prison on a daily basis and work with local businesses, I owned part of a restaurant for a while, we had work release prisoners from the federal prison working in the kitchen...as I recall we paid them minimum wage, which went to the prison....I had prisoners working maintenance duties with me on several occasions at my first job...part of the deal was to evaluate the work ethic and behavior of the prisoners on the job...some were good workers, some had deep seated behavioral problems that were not suitable for working outside the facility...

bonus links....

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/prisonlabor.html

http://newsone.com/1562805/prison-labor-statistics-wiki/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/09/the-myth-of-prison-slave-labor-camps-in-the-u-s/

I'm not sure what these guys did before the crimes that put them in prison, but I believe in the prison they worked in the tailor shop. So they didn't learn professional steam pipe cutting there! (Steaming garments to get the wrinkles out, maybe.)

SE is correct, they had the skillset before they were incarcerated. And as I understand it, quite gifted con-men.

Some background...equally bad...

http://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2015/06/10/david-sweats-brutal-path-prison/71017500/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/10/manhunt-richard-matt/71029234/

Gee our new pipefitters.

Hey, I've done pipefitting that looked that good! (Former member Local 598, Pasco, WA, USA.) I'm not too hot a welder, though. These days more into electricity.

My thoughts exactly. This pipe was not cut with a hacksaw blade in one night.

I think this took weeks, if not months to pull off.

And an intimate knowledge of the prison's infrastructure.

But, the larger question is where are they now and how have stayed free this long?

" This pipe was not cut with a hacksaw blade in one night."

I'm going to disagree on the time part for that hole. Assuming that pipe is a standard mild steel about 3/8" thick and two guys with patience and good quality hacksaw blades working with a steady cutting rhythm could conceivably cut that hole in several hours.

Figure 2-3 minutes to the inch at worst and that hole has a circumference of roughly 80 inches two guys could conceivably knock that out in well under 8 hours even with switching out every ten minutes or so.

If they were in good shape and working vigorously I would say under 4 hours.

As for why they have not been caught. Well they are murderers not dummies. They clearly are able to do research,planning and physical work with a good degree of stealth so staying out of the typical law enforcements view would not be all that difficult for them.

Heck they could be hiding in plain site if they know what to do and how to act and likely they do.

"Figure 2-3 minutes to the inch" No way. First they could not use a hack saw frame, so they are using a bare blade. Drawing it out of the pipe if they are smart. (See below)

"Well they are murderers not dummies" That's really a (fill in the black) statement.

I have one of those mini hacksaw tools that holds a regular sawblade by one end in my electronics tool box and its actually not that bad to use.

I've had to use it to cut several 3/4" grade 8 bolts off before when no on the saw was available and it's just as quick as a normal saw once you figure out how to use it correctly.

I'd be fairly confident that if I absolutely had to I could cut 3/8" wall tubing at around 1" every 2 - 3 minutes without concerns about damaging a blade.

That said I would agree that the hole in the picture looks machine cut rather than hand sawn. I don't see any obvious starter holes in the corners or anywhere else that would indicate a hand saw was used.

There is speculation that power tools were taken after hours and used and returned nightly.

Who knows?

Conforming to regulations is just part of the cleverness.

even if one is in shape. that repetitive motion is a challenge..... and if they did do it in a matter of hours, it should be in the APB to look for someone that is stooped over, stiff and in pain.

Something tells me they are not where the authorities are looking.

This escape took some long and careful planning as well as outside help.

I would be very surprised if they did not have transportation waiting outside to carry them quickly away from the area.

It would also not surprise me if at least one of them is a professional hit man with "real" connections to the outside world.

Yes, there is more to this than we are being told. (My suspicion)

The cut to me looks like a "quick cut" abrasive not a hacksaw. We use these to cut ductile iron pipe in the water industry. The shiny edge on the image indicates that the cut was done in one session and very recently.

What baffles me is that they completely removed the whole section. There would have been a point where they could have deflected the scrap away, saving some cutting time.

The hole size is also VERY generous for the size of the blokes involved. I would have cut a much smaller hole (again to reduce the cutting time necessary).

The cutting noise would have echoed for significant distance along the pipe and been audible at every vent on the pipe.

Could it be that this is all a decoy and that in the ensuing confusion, the guys actually left via the front door? Maybe as part of a security team rallied for the search?

Waiting for the real story to unfold??

the problem with an abrasive saw is the noise and the smell tends to go through-out the building..... yes, there is more to this story. A diversion is a possibility,.... or a plan 'B'.

I just hope they (the media) don't glorify these escaped convicts.

I also like the idea that this pipe cutting is a diversion and not the actual escape route. If this pipe is a steam pipe then how did they get out of the pipe "on the other side of the wall", by opening a boiler hatch from the inside? They may have been able to use electric or pneumatic power to cut into this pipe. To cut out of the pipe they would need an even longer extension cord or hose. Also, how long ago was this pipe pressurized with steam?

From what I understand from available news accounts, this steam pipe (if it is indeed that, or is it a sewerage pipeline?) ended at a manhole in the street, which is supposedly where they exited. It's quite possible that the pipe end was open at it's terminus within the MH.

Let's remember that this prison was built in the mid-1890s, and that the pipe most likely is Cast Iron or a mild steel grade material, that's easily cut, even with hand tools or battery-powered cutting tools. Ductile Iron Pipe wasn't around then. It didn't appear in abundance until the 1950's. You can clearly see from the photos that the pipe joint is obviously Lead & Oakum type, which suggests to me that it wasn't installed at a later day......a quite common pipe joining material and technique through and up into the 1950's. Also, you wouldn't use such a pipe joining technique for a pressurized steam pipe, would you?

I wonder if this pipeline was previously abandoned in-place, and hence the absence of stream within it, if it is a steam line. I'm betting that it's a gravity sanitary or storm sewer. Why would you discharge steam into the municipal sanitary sewer manhole? That's not normal engineering practice is it? I would think no. Mechanical Engineers, what do you think????

A storm drain or abandoned steam pipe sounds like a more plausible scenario. Only one pipe wall cutting would then be needed. A blanked off end inside the facility could even have been the clue for these guys that an exit path might exist.

Hello,

Beg to differ on the pipe material. The image reproduced clearly shows what looks like an internal welded seam bottom left that is uninterrupted for total visible length. Also there is no internal discontinuity where you "see" the external feature that led you to suspect the older material. (Thus I believe this is not the location of a pipe section join.)

What you have interpreted as the bell end of the next pipe would in fact seem to be a "sleeve" tube used to ensure that the wall masonry didn't cause external scratching of the actual pipe.

I'm with you though on it not being a steam line. It would never have ended in a manhole. Gravity sewer is most likely.

Still thinking this was the decoy. Cut with hacksaw blade, power reciprocating or abrasive wheel, the sharp edges would have taken skin or clothes. They must have wadded the edges to avoid significant cuts.

Way too many unanswered questions.

Have any additional pictures been released showing their workspace?

Has anyone checked that they aren't still in the prison. Having escaped so neatly from the cell it is possible they had planned to hide out in the prison for a while, possibly weeks, and then just walk out. Also 20 miles from the border, I know where I would have (or will be) headed.

Does anyone yet know what kinds of tools might have been furnished? A cordless angle grinder with several cutoff disks could have worked well, and seems to comport with the picture of the cutout.

And arguing vehemently about who knows best how to cut the damn hole, where to cut it, what to use to cut it, what size it should be and who should go first, and why.

They'd still be arguing who is the team leader of this escape project......

They must have been technicians. While the engineers are busy arguing in the conference room, the techs just grab the last jelly doughnut and set about the task at hand.

Next task at hand brought up at the meeting:

Hey! who ate all the jelly doughnuts?

Headlines Worldwide.

1. Wanted posters being delivered to every police force in the world.

2. Instructional videos being distributed to every inmate in every prison in the world.

3. The stats, pics and personal cell phone number of Joyce Mitchell going viral all over the world.

Having had the "pleasure" of working in a prison, Marion Correctional Institution" Lowell Fl. I can tell you for a fact that the things that go on in a prison are far removed from anything you will have seen on TV. Most of these fellows are talented, if not misguided or none to bright, and many do possess trade skills. (prisons are notoriously blue collar) I cannot speak to these two individuals specifically. What I am saying is they have a large amount of time with which to do what ever it is they want to do. Time and determination can do amazing things.

[ What I am saying is they have a large amount of time with which to do what ever it is they want to do. ]

"Time is all I've got here. Well, that and dementia." -The Joker, in a Robot Chicken skit blending Arkam Assylum and The Shawshank Redemption.

I have two dogs. I like to think that I treat them fairly well. They do need some exercise, so they go out in my fenced back yard. But when they go back there, the only thing on their minds is to escape.

As to the posed question why they haven't been caught yet: if you know anything about the Adirondack Park, it encompasses over 6 MILLION Acres, much of it featuring some very rough and incredibly difficult to traverse mountainous and hilly terrain (save for relatively few small villages dotting the landscape here and there), and "Forever Wild" dense forest with abundant brush and undergrowth. From experience, I'd say that it's more difficult terrain then found in most of the Pacific Northwest. It would be incredibly easy to hide in a forested area fending off detection, including helicopters equipped FLIR imaging devices and Bloodhounds. We've had a tremendous about of heavy rainfall in the Adirondacks during the past 2 weeks that can greatly diminish the scent trail(s) of the escapees.

If they are hiding at your house and you are being held captive, reply with three Xs, and I will sent the police to help you. (SHhhhhh)

No worries here. If someone wanted to breaking into this house, they'd be met with a wall of hot lead. A bad move on the house intruder's part. Shoot first, take names later.

And I'll have plenty of advanced warning because of the dogs and the advanced infrared alarm system not tied to the Grid.

Just saying...

OK, glad you are safe. That reply almost had the ring of a forced confession.

I think whoever wrote the article does not have a clue.

It's summertime and there would not be any steam in the pipes so there was no risk there.

The picture shown on the news clearly shows the pipe was cut using a reciprocating saw that I am sure was a hand-held, battery operated unit.

Any person with minimum tool usage experience could do what they did in cutting the obstructions out of the way.

The genius is in the plan and the executing of that plan without detection by the prison staff.

I wonder how they masked the noise of the tools while they were cutting through everything?

Sounds to me like the people who were supposed to be monitoring them and the building didn't do their job? I wonder why?

Shock, Hey ; If Mitchell was banging the cons & everyone working there is a friend of a friend, then maybe everyone is banging everyone else ! One big happy family.

Actually, any of us could have made that cut with a few duct taped wrapped hacksaw blades and time. The initial cut could have been made with a nail and simple scrapping. Again, its a function of patience and time.

The hardest thing about escapes is keeping them secret long enough to accomplish them. That's the other aspect of prison life we tend to be oblivious too. Everyone knows everything. Then there is the "convict code". Yet another hurdle they managed to successfully clear. No, this was a pretty sophisticated break.

It would not surprise me to find they had uniforms stashed outside and simply slipped away in the first few days of hundreds of unfamiliar law enforcement officers running all over the place.

I was impressed by the straight lines,..... they had to have brought a straight edge.

And a drill to make the starter hole.

Sounds like CR4 needs to sponsor a field trip!

This actually could be on this weeks CR4's caption this.