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Origin of Life

07/04/2015 2:12 PM

I had just completed a reply to a recent post regarding this subject, only to discover that the post had been rightfully deleted because of its religious motivation. However, my reply was serious in nature, rather than just critical of the post.

For those of us interested in this subject, I highly recommend reading the book: gen.e.sis The Scientific Quest For Life's Origin by Robert M. Hazen, 2005 (available in Kindle® edition). This book provides a rigorous background and the current state of research, both his and other investigator's, on the emergence of life on Earth.

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#1

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 3:11 PM

I preordered The Runes of Evolution: How the Universe became Self-Aware by Cambridge University Professor Simon Conway Morris.

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#36
In reply to #1

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 5:07 PM

Here is a description of convergent evolution:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150702163902.htm

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#46
In reply to #1

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 10:18 AM

I just bought this book (now available for Kindle) and I am in the process of reading it.

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#2

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 3:52 PM

We have one data point: earth. We desperately need more data and it is very difficult to obtain. One approach is to look for planets with oxygen atmospheres.

http://io9.com/one-of-the-best-places-to-search-for-alien-life-is-the-5987720

Perhaps alien life would be so alien that we would not even recognize it as life.

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#18
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Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 9:36 AM

Most exobiologists are hanging their hat on the convergent evolution theories. Basically, nature tends to try to operate at its ground state, so the simplest solutions to environmental conditions are favored over more complex solutions.

Given similar environments, organism tend to form similar constructs.

For sentient beings that would require the use of tools and that would pretty much mandate articulating digits, stereoscopic vision, hearing, etc. Jointed limbs are far more effective due to the ability to provide leverage than a highly segmented limb like those found in a tail. Warm blooded creatures are more versatile over a much wider gamut of environmental conditions than cold blooded.

You might argue over less significant features such as color or even the number of digits per limb; five versus six (pentadactyl versus hexadactyl).

Could alien life be very different given a similar environment? Possibly, but statistically that may be very unlikely. A sentient alien may not draw much attention at first glance.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 10:40 AM

Still I wonder if we might suffer from a lack of imagination. If a comet hadn't wiped out the dinosaurs, would some have evolved intelligence? Life on earth would be a lot different.

We need some data to work with.

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#20
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Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 10:50 AM

We see periodic extinction events, so nothing so unique there. Mammals already had a foothold, so it may have been only a matter of time.

More data would be helpful.

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#25
In reply to #19

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 11:56 AM

First, a "comet" did not wipe out the dinosaurs. One of their decedents is sitting in a tree, outside my window and pooping on my car as I write this.

Second, given the diversity of life forms existing on this planet today, there is no significant difference between humans and the various species of dinosaurs. We just have a more complex nervous system.

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#39
In reply to #25

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 9:15 PM

OK, granted all the dinos didn't get wiped out. I've been feeding their descendants seed for years, and they repay me by decorating my mail box.

Crows and ravens are pretty clever, considering the size of their brains. Perhaps if the bigger guys had survived, who knows what they might have accomplished.

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#35
In reply to #18

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 4:42 PM

Jointed limbs are far more effective due to the ability to provide leverage than a highly segmented limb like those found in a tail. Try telling that to an octopus.

Warm blooded creatures are more versatile over a much wider gamut of environmental conditions than cold blooded. Moot point. You could argue that man, a warm-blooded creature, can colonise more environments than any other species, but that is a feature of intelligence and the ability to select the right clothes. Of more import is the fact that individual species cannot exist independently of other species. The concept of life involves the interaction of many species within a given environment. If you were to examine the survival of warm-blooded animals in the absence of cold-blooded vs. the survival of cold-blooded animals in the absence of warm-blooded, I would suggest that the insects would win every time.

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#40
In reply to #35

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 9:22 PM

There's actually a lot of evidence that dinosaurs were warm blooded...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiology_of_dinosaurs

An instant later, both Professor Waxman, and his time machine are obliterated, leaving the cold-blooded / warm-blooded dinosaur debate still unresolved.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 9:47 PM

There are still funny,..... They should do reprints of their calendars to a whole new generation (which they do)

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#42
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Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 7:49 AM

"Try telling that to an octopus."

Consider that jointed limbs offer some advantages. Yes, snakes can slither pretty fast, octopus can move through water quickly and efficiently feed itself, but they can't lift much weight. Something that is trivial for a primate.

I think the operative word here is versatility. Segmented limbs can work well in specialized roles, but versatility provides a wider set of choices that improve the odds of transcending the normal roles and niches they occupy as a species.

You wrote, "You could argue that man, a warm-blooded creature, can colonise more environments than any other species, but that is a feature of intelligence and the ability to select the right clothes."

Not so much when you consider either primitive man or just mammals in general. Forget clothes. Cold blooded creatures may be well adapted to their specific environments, but lose the game when environmental conditions change. They are simply more sensitive to change than warm blooded creatures and the Earth's environment changes over time.

The current environment we live in now would not support the same diversity of cold blooded animals as it did 60 million years ago.

Warm blooded animals survive better in cold environments, so living in high altitude mountains or Arctic regions is possible, whereas cold blooded animals would have problems as their metabolisms tend to shut down.

Warm blooded animals can warm up by moving and being active. Cold blooded animals rely on the sun or geothermal warmth to get their body temperature to a working point.

Warm blooded animals cool off by sweating, which has minimal impact on their actions. That is, they can still hunt and forage for food and regulate body temperature.

Humans can cool off more efficiently than most animals and even though we can not run as fast as most prey, we have greater levels of endurance. Primitive man would chase their prey relentlessly until they were forced to stop from heat exhaustion.

Cold blooded animals must seek shelter, shade, or borrow into the ground, which limits their activity to hunt or evade predators.

The long and short of it is that versatility in a species works to its advantage to dominate its domain and to spread into new domains.

There is no doubt that intelligence plays an important roll. The socialization skills of humans played a critical roll in our own rise to the top of the animal kingdom.

It is important to note that with any system there are exceptions. Bats are cold blooded, for example, but the examples I cited above are generalizations and pointing out the few exceptions to the general rules above does not disprove the point that warm blooded animals are more adaptable over a wider spectrum of environmental conditions - at least on Earth.

You wrote, "Of more import is the fact that individual species cannot exist independently of other species."

Brilliantly said. The web of life is critical to the survival of any one species and versatility is the essential element to adapt to new and/or changing environmental conditions.

Lastly, I will drone on about the roll of intelligence and the contribution that makes to creating a technological society.

Intelligence is very important, but species versatility and its ability to adapt to a wide and changing set of environmental conditions, I would argue, is much more critical.

The reason is that versatility and adaptability drives the evolutionary development of the brain. We can look at dolphins, which have a similar brain size to humans (1.5 to 1.7 kg versus 1.3 to 1.4 kg). They are said to be the second smartest creature on Earth, but lack complex language and the ability to make and use tools. Consequently, while their brain size is slightly larger, the regions of those brains that allow complex thought and abstract reasoning are not as well defined as in humans. Again, the environment and the versatility of the species drives the brain's ability to work at higher cognitive levels as the species evolves.

This is why I think convergent evolution is correct in saying that alien species living in similar environmental parameters will develop similar solutions to surviving and technological species will probably look similar to ourselves.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 9:37 AM

Back to biology school, I reckon.

In which aeon did bats become cold blooded?

An octopus can't lift much weight? Try comparing like sizes. A contest between an octopus and a mouse would not be much fun for the mouse, nor would a contest between giant squid and man be much fun for the man.

Forget clothes? If man forgets his clothes his environmental range will be severely restricted at both the cold and warm ends of the range.

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#49
In reply to #43

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 10:27 AM

Correct on the bat not being cold blooded, per se. They are mammals, but they function somewhere between cold blooded and warm. If you remember from biology 101, bats can not maintain or self-regulate their own body temperature (not endothermic), and thus an an exception to the generalized warm blooded rule for mammals.

I am not sure about your other two arguments, but lets get back to basic human anatomy 101 for a second. If we talk about muscle mass and its ability to do work, the human limbs are designed to maximize work potential due to leverage with long bones. An example would be the humerus to the radius and ulna bones where the bicep.

If the tentacle of an octopus was superior compared to the limbs of primates there would be a good chance that trait would be favored in evolution. This is my point. Arm wrestling a squid really doesn't prove/disprove the versatility of primate arms. :)

As for clothes, your are trying to limit the argument to something that it was not intended to be. Simply look at the diversity of warm blooded creatures versus cold blooded creatures across the globe.

Warm blooded creatures do better over a wider range of environmental extremes than cold blooded. Most warm blooded creatures do not wear clothes, except silly little pets owned by old women. I made a good case for the diversity of warm blooded species versus cold blooded species in my previous post, I thought. However, if you feel my premise is wrong please say so, but I don't think your counter argument about a man and his jacket is a very good one. ;-)

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#72
In reply to #49

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 2:07 AM

I don 't think you were taught properly in your biology class. Bats hibernate in winter conditions, but they also perform a similar metabolic activity on a daily basis, the point being that their temperature goes up and down under their own control, not as a dependence on the environment.
I don't think much of your anatomy class either, if it left you with the impression that human limbs are designed to maximise work potential. Have you any idea of what ineffective levers the long bones are (in terms of where the fulcrum is positioned)? Then compare them with the vertebral joints of an animal tail, where the fulcrum is in the centre of the lever.

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#78
In reply to #42

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 9:13 AM

Hmmm .. So how is sex organ developed in a billion years. Do our early ancestor used it as a wedge and tool keeping safe before?hehehe I really cant grasp the idea of evolution that way.

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#74
In reply to #35

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 8:01 AM

You are on to something !

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#3

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 3:57 PM

My girlfriend just loves Robert Sapolsky a Neuroendocrinologist, (never heard of one.) technical he's a specialist in biologist this may help define his earlier job title.

Robert Maurice Sapolsky is an American neuroendocrinologist, professor of biology,

neuroscience, and neurosurgery at Stanford University, researcher and author. Wikipedia

Born: 1957, Brooklyn, New York City, NY

Education: Rockefeller University, Harvard University

Awards: MacArthur Fellowship

Anyways, he wrote a number of excellent books, on the reasons of man on the reason of the things they do. What what based this off was his study of baboons as a graduate student. The adage of survival of the fittest is not really true. Or at least was redefine.

With this one being initially his first one.

A Primate's Memoir Book by Robert Sapolsky

https://www.google.com/#q=a+primate%27s+memoir&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgxYHsxCnfq6-gVlWgWGuEoRZYFJuoCXgWFqSkV8Uku-Un5_tn5dTeeb10r6E41Mf6cjJnZBruq7rfqx9MgCzRocHRwAAAA

He also has a lot of documentary a but field and classroom on YouTube.

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#4

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 4:18 PM

I'm more interested in the "End of Life As We Know It" and how soon it will happen.

I'm convinced that we are here, and how we got here is not as much of a concern to me.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 7:53 PM

Well GW takes effect, humans may not be a part of earth future, no matter how many carbon points one buys

Face it, Death, You can't escape it, so stop worrying about it and enjoy the ride.

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#5

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 4:28 PM

When you're talking in the billions of years it seems that anything might be possible, no matter how long the odds.....we have all the ingredients needed for life spread throughout the universe, with static electricity as a spark plug, sooner or later it's going to happen...Think about how little your chance of winning the lottery is, then think about it over a couple of billion years of playing once a week...Anything that doesn't happen in our short frame of reference(~90 years) is a stretch of the imagination...

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#6
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Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 6:39 PM

What I find intriguing is that "life" first appeared on Earth some 3.5 billion years ago, and then nothing much happened for the next 3 billion years (except for photosynthesis) until the Cambrian explosion from which all modern organisms evolved.

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#13
In reply to #6

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 10:09 PM

Over those 3 billion years the internal machinery of the cell was evolving. I like the idea that the Cambrian Explosion was triggered when the accuracy of replicating the genes became high enough that a cell could trust its sister cell to perform its reproduction almost as well as itself. As soon as the accuracy of outsourcing reproduction was high enough, then the advantages of being multicelluluar could cause an explosion in new forms of life beyond the single cell.

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#8

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 8:02 PM

What'd really throw a *monkey wrench* into MANKIND's quest for *self* would be to discover that we're merely the spawn & evolution of a discarded science project by some OTHER entity in the universe.

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#9

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 8:56 PM

Evolutionists are not statisticians. I could conclude. Who agree? The chance of life from a diverse permutation of all physical chemical factors would be infinitisimally small and people who would search to reason out the infitisimal is senseless and ignorant of knowing that he is limited and incapable.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 9:03 PM

You need a mirror.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 9:58 PM

And I conclude that the chance that "permutations of all physical chemical factors" are infinite in the Universe is also real.

I'd not speak of ignorance if I could not spell "infinitisimally" and "infitisimal".

Anonymous Posters have no place here.

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Origin of Life

07/04/2015 10:01 PM

Actually evolutionary biologists work extensively with statistics. Two of the greatest statisticians of all time, Ronald Fisher and Sewall Wright, developed the field of statistics to deal with the difficulties of calculating gene frequencies under many different conditions of selection.

On the other hand, no matter how good your statistics, you can't use it on zero data, and that's essentially what you have regarding the early origins of life.

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#21
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Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 11:28 AM

Who could say, they dont work with biologist? Not me, you say it. But look, what is the mathematical expectation finding life in the universe.? Winning a lotto even if its 6 pick out from 49 balls, chance is 1 out of approximately 5 million. Now, taking a random independent variables(water, light, temeperature, chemical factor, etc) probability to find life in the universe would be 1 out of a 10 to the almost infinity. Say an observatory could examine the skies 3 thousand systems per day, what would bebyour chance of finding one in your lifetime? None. I guess working on SETI would be a wonderful job, because afterall you'll lose your hair and consequently die day and night dreaming of finding one life out of a trillion stars and systems. Many already died in age. Some to follow. Oze and funds have been wasted of such endeavor gaining none.

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#22
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Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 11:35 AM

What kind of dressing would you like on that illiterate word salad?

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#28
In reply to #21

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 1:02 PM

I didn't bother to check your figures for the lotto probability, but it sounds like the right ball park.

Now on your probabilities for finding extraterrestrial life, you are clearly pulling numbers out of thin air!

Only a few years ago, there was only speculation that stars other than our own had planets of any kind. Then astronomers found ways to determine the existence of planets, and found thousands. Recently they've found ways to find planets where conditions are favorable for life as we know it; I don't have any current figures, but they've found many. Add to that the recent findings of complex organic molecules on comets and asteroids, and your "statistics" for the existence of extraterrestrial life totally fall apart. Such life has not yet actually been proven, to my knowledge, but the statistics based on such recent findings have vastly shifted the probability from close to zero to very close to one (certainty).

If you should ever stop basing your life on blind faith and start basing it on proven facts, your attitude will have to change!

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 1:41 PM

"If you should ever stop basing your life on blind faith and start basing it on proven facts, your attitude will have to change!"

Unfortunately for most with high levels of blind religious belief they have to keep their mind solidly closed otherwise their whole concept and foundation of their belief system will begin to unravel and fall apart.

WIthout that their primary senses of self, emotional security, and above all unwavering self righteousness, based on those concepts that supports their entire egos and senses of self in general will come crashing down around them.

Conscious and accepted awareness of the present day knowledge and levels of understandings of the world and life around us us humans have now reached are a very dangerous things to the foundations of close minded.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 2:06 PM

Never fear. The ultraconservatives will continue to do their best at stamping out logic and science.

Their motto, "A flat earth is a happy earth".

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 2:30 PM

To correct your ignorance and the ones who had that motto. In the book of Isaiah 40:22, It describes the Earth is not flat. Isaiah being written in between 701 to 681 BC was ahead of that motto you spoke. How marvelous it is.

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 2:56 PM

As in all cases where a text has been translated from one language to another multiple times, the original meaning of the text may well have been lost. "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth" (or whichever translation you prefer) can certainly be interpreted more than one way.

If you climb a mountain and look all around, the area you can see is roughly a circle. On a flat "Earth", it would be exactly a circle. If you extend your knowledge by traveling in various directions from your birthplace, or learning from those who have come to your place from elsewhere on a flat "Earth", then the "known world" is still roughly a circle.

It is common to refer to a "circle of friends"...

In all these cases, a "supreme being looking down from above" would logically be located above the center of that circle, so he/she/it could see all equally well.

There is NO evidence that the word "circle" in your text refers to the shape of the planet.

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#32
In reply to #29

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 2:46 PM

I keep my self discretion of my freedom to choose, to speak and to absorb information i have to, nonetheless being under a spell of being star struck from the academic renowned personalities and with their quotes. I believe in the Almighty and in wisdom through science, never came to mind that the world was created in magic or any sorts of sorcery. This is the era where scientific discoveries saturate, for the past 100 years there is no more enormous discoveries disclosed. All the fundamentals have been almost all known. Theories in quantum mechanics has no new revelation, particle wave duality and measurement problem was still left unsolved. Science is actually finding out, the trace of Who made it. But PEOPLE keep denying hopelessly.

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#38
In reply to #32

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 5:54 PM

"This is the era where scientific discoveries saturate, for the past 100 years there is no more enormous discoveries disclosed. All the fundamentals have been almost all known. Theories in quantum mechanics has no new revelation, particle wave duality and measurement problem was still left unsolved. "

Huh?

If you ever talked to a experienced scientist, chemist, physicist, astronomer, oceanographer geologist, meteorologist, medical doctor or most any other person of professional accreditation who is seen as being the tops in their field and they will tell you exactly how little of this world and existence in general we really do know and understand.

So as fas we know most of everything already. I outrightly scream BS on that! Only a bonafide idiot would dare say we know most everything about everything.

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#44
In reply to #29

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 9:56 AM

The facts of science are the same for all people to observe and study; the anthropology, the archeaology, the solar system, etc. data doesn't change. It is obervable by all. It is the interpretation that brings people to a different conclusion.

Everyone is going to come to the table with a certain amount of preconceived ideas or philosophical point of view and they will then see that data through their particular viewpoint or lens.

It takes much more faith to believe that extreme order and complexity came out of chaos and random disorder than it does to believe that "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." The thing about the last idea is that if we accept God as being the Creator we then become accountable to Him. Many people don't want that so they discount the Creation account as listed in the Bible.

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#47
In reply to #44

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 10:21 AM

The facts of science are recognized just as are the fallacies of religion.

As I stated earlier, for all we know the Bible could just as easily be a work of fiction.

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 10:25 AM

"the fallacies of religion" are as you say an opinion and subjective. Scientific data is objective and only subject to interpretation as how they came to be.

There are all sorts of models that are generated from data but they are set up by people with different agendas, i.e. man made global warming, etc., so they then come to different conclusions.

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#52
In reply to #48

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 12:07 PM

"but they are set up by people with different agendas,"

So, you're saying that no one is simply searching for the truth?

That's hypocritical, coming from one who, I assume, claims to religious.

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 2:21 PM

Some people come to the table with particular agendas to espouse and "don't confuse me with the facts", even though the facts may lead them to change their mind.

There was a professor at the Univ. of Colorado who was presented with scientific data that supports creation, and he acknowledged it as such, but because he didn't want to accept it because he then would be responsible for his life spiritually to the Creator. He said, "I know the facts are true but I won't accept them." He was at least honest.

I would assume that you too, lyn, as I do, have some preconceived ideas that you bring to the table as well that lead you to interpret the facts to bring about the conclusion you support. It's just that your ideas don't have any documentation to support that viewpoint. The Biblical account of Creation has details of what took place. You may not accept that, but the plan of what happened is there in Genesis 1.

Actually I don't claim to be religious, but I am a follower; who is far from perfect but I am seeking to let Biblical principles guide my life, of Jesus, There are many "religious" people who don't let their "religion" impact their lives. Many churches are full of such people. They try to separate their secular lives from their religious lives. It is they who are hypocritical.

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#55
In reply to #53

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 2:47 PM

"...scientific data that supports creation,..."

Please show us a link to that data!

What makes you believe Lyn has no documentation to support his (apparently our) viewpoint. There is so much documentation that one can't decide what to show first!

Do you speak any other language besides English? If so, try reading Genesis (or any other part) in a Bible written in that other language. Then you will begin to see how it is impossible to exactly translate from one language to another. There are always changes in nuances, if not total misunderstandings, when anything is translated. The Bible has been translated so many times that very little, if any, of it means exactly the same thing as it did when originally written.

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#56
In reply to #55

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 3:12 PM

There is a plethora of data that supports creation and a young earth, 8k - 10k years old from many areas of science; astronomy, archaeology, anthropology.

"The Young Earth: The Real History of the Earth: Past, Present, Future" by John Morris is a good resource. Go to www.creationmuseum.org

As far as Lyn not having any documentation; other than documents that are very recent in history by guys like Darwin, Gould, Dawkins. These guys also had a atheistic mindset which shaded their interpretation of scientific fact.

The Bible is very misunderstood and even when people may know a lot of facts they don't see how it fits together leading people from Creation to the Cross. I'm not an apologist so I'm not very good at "convincing" soemone to believe. That's not my job anyway, that's the job of the Holy Spirit. I just know what God has done for me and how He has changed my life.

Also, don't confuse current translations with original scrolls from that time period. You're correct about some "translations" that aren't credible.

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#58
In reply to #53

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 3:25 PM

I'd like the link to the "scientific data that supports creation" too, but in addition I'd like a link to that incident about the professor. How do you know that the reason he didn't accept it was because then he would be responsible for his life spiritually to the Creator? Did he say so?

The Biblical account of creation could mean something completely different than a history of the physical universe or the physical Earth. It could be a metaphorical account of the rise and fall of different religions and civilizations before Judaism. But a literal description of the creation of the physical Earth probably should put the creation of the sun before the creation of plants.

I also believe that in the Bible when God said, "Let there be light," he was not referring to physical light, the Big Bang, the origin of the universe, or to any other physical phenomenon, but to the light of understanding, the very foundation of being human.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 4:59 PM

In regard to evidence, buy the "Young Earth" book by John Morris or go to resources at the Creation Museum.

About the professor at CU I heard the story from a scientist who I heard speak. He related his interaction with the Prof. He had no compulsion to mislead or lie about the event. As far as his "not accepting the fact of Creation", one can't know for sure what his motive was. The reason for not accepting the facts because of being accountable spiritually is true in many cases.

With plants being created on Day 3 and the sun and moon being created on Day 4; that isn't a problem since the days were a literal 24 hour period the plants would have survived that short period of time anyway. I believe the earth was created with an appearance of age, Adam and Eve being adults who spoke with God, so the plants could easily survive overnight as they do now.

Mankind, i.e. Adam, was created at the hand of God and God breathed into him the "breathe of life". His soul was because he, Adam, was "reated in the image of God."

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#61
In reply to #59

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 5:28 PM

I live in Wisconsin. We stand on rocks that date back up to 3 billion, that's billions with a B, years ago.

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#68
In reply to #61

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 9:34 PM

Aka, the Niagara Escarpment. I was raised in Door County, where at one time it was very picturesque. Before development,.... Now at times beachs are closed due ecoli out breaks from shoreline development.

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#75
In reply to #61

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 8:18 AM

And how was that time frame determined?

They don't even date the rocks correctly that were formed when Mt. St. Helens erupted in May of 1980. Carbon dating showed those rocks being thousands of years old, when in actuality they were months old.

Mt. St. Helens was one of the most widely geologically recorded events in history because the geologists knew it was going to blow, they set up an array of monitoring equipment and they observed what the combination of heat, pressure and the right amounts of organic material would produce in a short period of time.

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#82
In reply to #75

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 10:55 AM

"And how was that time frame determined?

They don't even date the rocks correctly that were formed when Mt. St. Helens erupted in May of 1980. Carbon dating showed those rocks being thousands of years old, when in actuality they were months old."

Carbon dating rocks doesn't do anything. The carbon 14 they are working with comes from the decomposition of organic material not inorganic rock material.

Say I take one of those 3 billion year old rocks that are in Wisconsin and smash it down into fine powdery sand and bake it. now I have brand new freshly created sand yet it's still made of 3 billion year old rock material.

Now examples like this of your comments and the fallacies of rationalizations behind how things work and what they work with is largely why so many creationists get so much grief from the scientific crowd.

BTW the bible as we read it today barely resembles what it was originally due to a huge amount of mistranslations and outright omissions of sections that certain religious and political leaders of the past had changed and most any biblical historian will tell you that.

If you or anyone else wants to stand on biblical scripture and its most correct contents and intentions you need to go directly from the very first and most complete historical writings that have been confirmed like the dead sea scrolls and many many other related ancient texts which as the modern translators who can read the ancient languages will likely tell you and anyone else there are a lot of misinterpreted and incorrectly translated facts, figures, content and large amounts of edited/missing contents between the writings from then and what we see on the pages now.

Also one has to include the fact that the typical person of back then did not have the knowledge, vocabulary and range of terminology that most of us have today which is a heavy factor in how things would have been described then Vs now. How do you explain centuries to persons who can't even tell you how many days are in a year or what a minute or second is? Think about it.

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#83
In reply to #82

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 11:19 AM

Why do you say the original people didn't have the mental capacity to understand time or have a vocabulary?

Adam named the animals, all of them, Genesis 2:19, 20. He had great mental capacity and the vocabulary to do that. The misunderstanding that early mankind didn't have verbal communication or mental capacity is a result of the evolutionary mindset.

Of course if one doesn't accept the Biblical account of history, the other option is that early mankind had very little, if any, mental capacity or ability to communicate verbally, because it took hundreds of millions of years for that capacity to develop.

Following the evolutionary religion; how did a woman come to be so that mankind could reproduce and "further develop"? Does that mean that maybe Bruce Jenner was really a woman in a man's body? It was some kind of evolutionary foul up.

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#84
In reply to #83

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 11:34 AM

HUH???????????

What I mean is in their time and languages they did not have the same terminology and contexts of words that we use today.

Most anyone here who is bilingual or multilingual can tell you that there are many terms and contexts that do not translate from one language to another. Personally I deal with this daily being my wife is Turkish and a lot of American English terms we use do not have proper Turkish equivalents just as many of the Turkish terms and contexts do not translate to English correctly.

Now going back several thousand years the verbal languages of that time did not contain many of the words,terminology and contextual references we now use.

A simple example would be the word Computer. As of today we all know what that word means and its associated contexts as they apply today. Now find me a word from 3000 years ago in one of the ancient languages that would have carried the same meaning and context back then ad the word computer does to day.

I never said or implied that people back then were any less intelligent or dumber than the average person of today is. What I was trying to say was that a huge amount of the words and their meanings and how they carry certain contexts we can associate to today did not exist back then.

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#85
In reply to #84

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 12:02 PM

Sorry, I was on a different page than you.

I was referring to the ability of these early people to communicate and you are referring to the original languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek that the Bible was written in, i.e. the Dead Sea Scrolls are mostly the earliest documents that subsequent translations have been made from. I agree with you that some translations are poorly done and are made even worse as people today try to make the Bible fit culture, rather than the Bible being the standard that is constant, there are some who try to make the Bible "more appealing" to cultural norms.

Often we think that these early people didn't have the ability to speak clearly, distinctly and with a vocabulary for communication. That is the idea from many textbooks or other writings from an evolutionary viewpoint.

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#87
In reply to #85

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 1:04 PM

Exactly! What I have seen in my lifetime is that very few people ever put forth any effort to find out the true and correct meanings and contexts that were in use when the scriptures were written and how they would have been understood and applied at that time.

The best religious authorities I have ever known never ever said blindly follow and believe everything as you see and interpret it now. What they did say was find the real truth and meaning and go from that which I see as a very similar concept of scientific research and analysis and that works very well for my belief systems.

I don't know what is right or wrong most of the time but I trust my gut instincts to inform me of what seems correct and what doesn't and when something doesn't seem right I tend to follow up on finding what I am not understanding or what is being taken wrongly from it.

The last shall be first and the first shall be last doesn't mean what the majority of people think it does.

Same modern day topic is freedom of speech. It doesn't mean what most people who are screaming about having the right to it want everyone to believe it means.

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#86
In reply to #75

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 12:38 PM

In answer to your question. I suggest this nugget, short, clearly written and informative.

http://online.wr.usgs.gov/outreach/geoAge/geoAgeIndex.html

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#63
In reply to #59

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 6:30 PM

If the Earth was created with the appearance of age, then it makes no sense to debate any scientific data about the age of the Earth, because that would have also been created with the appearance of age. In fact, it appears that God really, really wants us to believe that the Earth is some 4 billion years old because all the data makes it look that way. If it really isn't that old, then maybe God shouldn't do such a good job of making it look that old.

Suppose you are an author and last year you wrote a book of fiction. A person in the book believes that he was born in 1970. Was he "really" born in 1970? Not possible, because the book wasn't even written until 2014. But if he investigates his birth, and looks at birth certificates, news articles, photographs, eyewitness accounts, and the personal account of his mother talking about going into labor, then he will have to believe that he was born in 1970, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BOOK. It would make no sense for him to try to prove that he has only existed for 1 year (unless that is what the book is about, like a science fiction story).

If the character can escape from the book then maybe he will have to adapt to the idea that the book was written in 2014, but as long as he is in the book, his reality is that he was born in 1970. Escaping from the book might be difficult.

When you die and go to the next world, you may discover that the whole universe is a fictional place and it was "really" created 6000 years ago (or yesterday) but while living inside that universe, it is "really" about 14 billion some years old, and everything we find seems to confirm that age. It is possible that the author decided to throw in some incongruities, but even so, the universe is still 14 billion years old in the context of the book.

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#60
In reply to #53

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 5:21 PM

Were those who wrote, "The Biblical account of Creation" there to observe it?

No!

Nothing written about it can be verified. It all must be accepted, "on faith".

I don't.

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#62
In reply to #60

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 5:38 PM

Creation and evolution aren't the same. One, Creation, was a miracle, an event that defies the laws of nature, and the other, evolution, wasn't, it was supposedly some kind of natural event over hundreds of billions of years.

There is no rational explanation of how we, mankind, animals, plant life and the rest of the Universe came to be except.

God was there, as the instigator of the Creation event, and later told Moses what to write. You're correct, we do need to accept by faith a lot of things in life; that the person in the car driving toward you will stay in his lane, that the chair you sit in will hold you, that the sun will come up tomorrow, etc. The details of Creation make sense and fit. We, mankind, are "fearfully and wonderfully made" and the more we learn about how our bodies work the more amazing and magnificent they are. They didn't get that way by random chance.

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#64
In reply to #62

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 6:41 PM

I have reported this as blatantly religious and an unsubscribing.

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#71
In reply to #62

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 12:25 AM

The existence of God defies the laws of nature! Therefore he/she/it does not exist, except in the minds of people like you, who pay no attention to the laws of nature.

like Lyn, I hereby quit wasting my time here...

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#79
In reply to #71

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 9:32 AM

I could not agree. Say x+y=0, what does zero means to you? Or 1kg of cotton less 1 kg of salt equals to zero? What does that mean to you? You grow up, live and probably die with the wonderful works of nothing/zero. You must not have observed it. I would not say you're not intellectually capable, you must have been careless and unobservant. Ten bux for explaination and i could use a whipping.

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#76
In reply to #60

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 8:36 AM

Were those who wrote, "The Biblical account of Creation" there to observe it?

Were those who theorize about the big bang there to observe it? Nope.

You are free to not accept the biblical account of creation and take on faith that the universe and world just happened.

When you get down to the origin of life (<=== see on topic ) or even the universe, science and religion are basically the same....we have to take much of the basic building blocks on faith.

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#73
In reply to #53

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 7:58 AM

Now that has nothing to do with the question at hand. Maybe you would like to identify the said professor and also the arguments that changed said professor. Otherwise we have to assume its just hearsay and it would not even hold up on further investigation. If this is how you want to lead the argument then suit yourself - you are on your own!

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#67
In reply to #47

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 9:26 PM

The bible is the 'Word of God', compiled, written, edited and censored by man.

Ps, I just read lake girl warning......

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#126
In reply to #67

Re: Origin of Life

07/10/2015 4:10 PM

"The bible is the 'Word of God', compiled, written, edited and censored by man." Both as a practising Christian and as a former practitioner of a scientific discipline (the two are not mutually exclusive and there are a lot of us folk around) I fully support the above statement, and ask the moderators to exert a light touch on the discussion. I fully accept the story of evolution, and fully accept that the Bible is written, from one end to the other, by fallible men. Within it are historical accounts, written at a time when history as a discipline was not understood. Within the Bible is also some pure poetry, the first chapter of Genesis being an example. In interpreting the Bible we have to remember when it was written, and for what level of civilisation and understanding.
The point I wish to make in this context, without wishing to prolong the discussion, is that even scientists have to abide by a system of ethics in their attempts to ascertain the truth, and that the system of ethics propounded by the historical Jesus is the best we have got. You may feel ethics are unnecessary when speaking of scientific truth, but I can give you numerous examples of scientific liars.

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#127
In reply to #126

Re: Origin of Life

07/10/2015 4:30 PM

php001, I'm not sure what you know of Scripture as a "practising Christian" but you obviously didn't go to a church that was conservative and fundamental. If you would have, your view of Scripture would be inerrant and God-breathed (inspired, 2 Timothy 3:16,17).

You're correct in that it was "written" by man, although it was by the direction of the Holy Spirit as they wrote. The reason there are differences in translations, from the original texts, is that there is some different understanding of culture, language, etc. That doesn't make the "whole" writing of Scripture a fallacy.

There is nothing in science or history that is at odds with with the events recorded in Scripture, i.e. Creation, the Flood (Noah), cities and historical figures that are talked about. There is much extra-Biblical support for those events and people.

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#128
In reply to #127

Re: Origin of Life

07/10/2015 5:00 PM

Was the Holy Spirit there to instruct man to select what was to be included in the bible.

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#130
In reply to #128

Re: Origin of Life

07/11/2015 11:21 AM

That is correct. One doesn't understand Scripture without the help of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:14, "but the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God , for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they ae spiritually discerned."

These men who put the Canon of Scripture together understood the Scriptures, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and included the books of the Bible as we have today. They included the things they did because of the historical validity of the documents they analyzed. They understood the continuity within the writings, etc.

I'm not an apologist and I know you probably won't accept what is said here. I do't really seek to "convince" anyone of anything, I just know that there is a legitimate option to evolution, and that is found in the Bible. It is historica, it is supported by all sciences, it is supported by extra-Biblical figures and documents, i.e. Josephus, etc.

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#131
In reply to #130

Re: Origin of Life

07/11/2015 12:34 PM

"I just know that there is a legitimate option to evolution, and that is found in the Bible. It is historica, it is supported by all sciences, it is supported by extra-Biblical figures and documents, i.e. Josephus, etc."

I have no problem with treating the New Testament as a historical document, but when it comes to Genesis, it is not supported by science at all. If it were, all those devoutly religious geologists and biologists like Darwin would not have had to come up with alternative explanations. You cannot derive the seven days of creation from the geological evidence. The only reason anyone thinks about seven stages in creation is that the Bible describes it that way, and people try to squeeze the science into this preconception rather than letting the science go where the data leads it.

To me Genesis must mean something else, and have some kind of spiritual meaning, not a scientific meaning. It seems to me that by concentrating on the Bible as being literally true, the spiritual, metaphorical meaning is lost. What does the idea of eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil mean? If you take Genesis literally, then there is a literal garden, a literal tree, and a literal fruit. But if you are allowed to take it metaphorically, then it is about how mankind came to be different from animals in having a moral nature, a sense of good and evil. It is like saying that the fruit of the tree of education is knowledge. There is no literal tree or fruit in that statement. I think the metaphorical meaning is far more interesting and important than wondering whether that fruit was an apple or a pomegranate.

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#132
In reply to #131

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 6:01 AM

GA.

Yes, if people even several centuries back took genesis literally then there would be more religions which banned the eating of apples.

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#133
In reply to #132

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 6:59 AM

Actually, if they took Genesis literally, there would not be a ban on apples as Genesis does not say the apple was on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

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#134
In reply to #133

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 7:40 AM

so it was a peach....

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#135
In reply to #134

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 7:42 AM

No wait, it was a tomato...... that's why there was such a stigma about tomatoes for so long........

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#136
In reply to #134

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 7:53 AM

LOL. That's one of the questions I hope to pose when I get to heaven.

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#138
In reply to #136

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 8:14 AM

what's that.... "Excuse me, St. Pete...... where do you keep the peaches?"

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#137
In reply to #133

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 8:13 AM

Actually, there is no specific mention of an apple in the book of Genesis at all - the more general term "fruit" is used in relation to the tree of good and evil.

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#140
In reply to #137

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 10:53 PM

It was a Banana. I am sure!

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#129
In reply to #127

Re: Origin of Life

07/11/2015 2:46 AM

And God created man. And some of the characters of His creation were observant, and noted the beauty of evolution as one of the many wonders of creation. And some sought fully to understand the relation between God and man.
But some of them were blind to this beauty, and could not fully understand, and sought the answer in words they did not understand. They became known as fundamentalists.

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#139
In reply to #127

Re: Origin of Life

07/13/2015 10:51 PM

I just came back to rate you OT again.

Since you have not read the book yet how comes you have anything to say?

Rating myself OT.

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#51
In reply to #44

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 11:06 AM

"It is the interpretation that brings people to a different conclusion." Correct! Perhaps the greatest example of this was provided by Copernicus: before him, everyone could "see" that the sun, moon, etc. circled around the Earth. What seems obvious can be totally wrong!

You are quite right about preconceived ideas etc. making it difficult for many individuals to accept other points of view.

"It takes much more faith to believe that extreme order and complexity came out of chaos and random disorder than it does to believe that "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth."" There is where we totally disagree! Each little step in the process of evolution (physical or biological) is totally understandable. A few trillion of these little steps, and here we are! To think that some entity (which you call God) already knew all the requirements to produce an intelligent being from scratch in an instant - now THAT takes faith!

A few millennia ago, there was a 'god' for every major thing that people did not understand, such as the sun, fire, lightning, water, etc. Now that we understand these things, those 'gods' have disappeared. I presume there is no one remaining that still believes in Thor... Why do you still hold on to the last one remaining?

As to being "accountable to Him", all we need is to follow the Golden Rule!

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#54
In reply to #51

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 2:30 PM

"As to being "accountable to Him", all we need is to follow the Golden Rule!" Where do you think the Golden Rule came from? What happens in society when people do what they want? There is anarachy and chaos, i.e. Ferguson, Cinncinati, Chicago, the last Supreme Court Ruling about a family definition, etc.

"A few trillion of these small steps and here we are." When things are left to their own device, things get worse, not better. How did some organism survive long enough for it to have the correct things come together in the correct amounts in order for the intricacy in cells and organisms to come about so that they could "evolve in more developed organisms? Don't care for your yard and see what happens, it will soon be overridden with weeds and trash.

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#66
In reply to #54

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 9:23 PM

" When things are left to their own device, things get worse, not better. How did some organism survive long enough for it to have the correct things come together in the correct amounts in order for the intricacy in cells and organisms to come about so that they could "evolve in more developed organisms? Don't care for your yard and see what happens, it will soon be overridden with weeds and trash."

I will disagree. When left to it's own devices nature returns to what nature sees as being the best and most balanced for the conditions it has made at the time. Just because some humans don't like how nature does thing does not actually make nature's way wrong.

To you they are weeds. To nature they are just the plants that grow in the conditions given better than any other plant life.

As chaos theory goes as applied to natural selection and evolution a human lifetime is an infinitesimally small time scale that carries about as much influential weight as a leap second does towards the total time frame of an eon.

My point is the terms good, bad, helpful, harmful, pretty, ugly and so on are concepts defined and rationalized entirely by us humans. In nature's terms and actions none of those have any meaning, reference or significance.

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#69
In reply to #54

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 12:07 AM

"Where do you think the Golden Rule came from?" From common ordinary logic! Anyone with the intelligence to see the long-range implications of his own actions can see the validity of the concept. It certainly did NOT originate in the Bible, as you seem to be implying!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Ancient_Babylon

The people in those riots certainly were NOT following the Golden Rule!

"When things are left to their own device, things get worse, not better." Not true! you've mentioned statistics several times. When random changes occur, 50% of them will make things worse, and 50% of them will make things better. When it comes to the development of organisms (including people), the changes for the better increase the survival rate of those experiencing the change, while the changes for the worse decrease the survival rate. Over time, the bad changes disappear, and the good changes remain.

Tcmtech has already correctly responded to the weed situation, and trash will only accumulate in your yard if you toss it there.

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#57
In reply to #51

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 3:13 PM

"all we need is to follow the Golden Rule" Let's see...that's "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", right?

Didn't Western Europe try that with Hitler. I don't think it worked out very well for many involved.

I'm all for following the Golden Rule, but I don't believe it is ALL we need to follow.

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#70
In reply to #57

Re: Origin of Life

07/07/2015 12:15 AM

That is indeed the Golden Rule I referred to.

I fail to understand the connection between the Golden Rule, Western Europe, and Hitler. Hitler certainly did not follow it!

Any rule, including this one, only produces the maximum results when everyone follows the rule.

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#34
In reply to #21

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 2:57 PM

"Who could say, they dont work with biologist?" I don't know what you mean by that.

You said, "Evolutionists are not statisticians." I was responding to that. Scientists who study evolution have to be very good at statistics.

There is some truth in what you are saying about the probability of life occurring. It is true that the conditions needed for life to develop are rare, though exactly how rare is an unknown. Another unknown is how likely it is that life will develop on a planet where the conditions exist.

On the other side of the scale there are a very, large number of galaxies out there, and a very, very long time in which life can develop. And then there are the unknown unknowns, which includes everything we don't know about the evolution of life in general and radio-using life in particular.

Here are some entertaining unknown unknowns. (Though when I mention them do they turn into known unknowns? Or unknown knowns?)

What is the probability that sending out a radio signal attracts aliens who then wipe out the new competition?

What is the probability that a new, preindustrial intelligent species destroys its entire ecosystem on its planet, the way humans destroyed the Fertile Crescent or the Gobi Desert?

What is the probability that a new intelligent species turns into a totalitarian state like North Korea or Zimbabwe and prevents subversive technologies like radio from being developed?

What is the probability that a new species never rises out of feudalism, and prevents new technologies from being developed for religious reasons, or to protect the ruling class, or half a zillion other reasons (like feudal Japan banning guns and wheeled vehicles on its roads).

What is the probability that all the other intelligent aliens communicate with telepathy, or "spooky action at a distance," or some other form of radio-free communication. SETI looks for radio signals. It could be that we can't see any radio signals out there because most forms of life communicate just fine without them, and didn't need to develop such an inefficient and slow form of communication.

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 12:48 AM

Sorry, but once again you are exhibiting your ignorance!

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 2:33 AM

Again? Where did it happen before? (Please bear in mind that AP#1 in this thread isn't necessarily the same person as AP#1 in some other thread.)

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 9:28 AM

Obviously true, but in this case, I'm relatively confident, simply due to the topic and timing...

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#23
In reply to #17

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 11:37 AM

Good guess. I hereby withdraw my earlier "Again?" question.

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#24
In reply to #14

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 11:51 AM

Well, the more they did venture into finding life elsewhere, the feeling of loneliness was a sort of grief. To where ever they may look, the more the lonelier it gets. There' s nothing in there. There is life in our home the biosphere. Why not focus your eyes here? Solve the hunger, the violence, the injustices and love one another.

Your judging me an ignorant? What? I demand a proof that some of you already found life? If not, you are more as ignorant as i was. I got probability on my side and its factual implications. You what do you have? Was it not stupidty to write on every textbook accepted in the universities,that life is a product of evolution of planets and universe? A what and it was taught seriously like an accepted principle. Life was a mere fluke...which i could not agree. If I would, then implications and evidences would be, there should be new creations- organism to exist in replacement of extinction and it will never stop creating new organism since conditions are always favorable to life. Is there any? Yes, there is extinction but the reverse is unknown.

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 12:02 PM

You're proving yourself an ignorant.

You need no assistance.

I'm finished here.

As Mark Twain said, "Never argue with a fool. Bystanders may not be able to tell the difference."

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 12:17 PM

Speaking of which, you are one.

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#37
In reply to #14

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 5:07 PM

Do anonymous posters belong to a secret organization like the stonemasons? You seem to know each other. How can you recognize or tell each other apart anonymously. Do you have secret handshakes or something?

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#16

Re: Origin of Life

07/05/2015 8:20 AM

My opinion: Take a sterile place like a new greenhouse and I mean sterile completely. Then have an outsider plant something in the sterile but nutritious soil. This can be repeated as desired. Take it a step further and history book (bible) states that fallen angles (to be interpreted) found favor with the daughters of man and reproduced. If nothing else there may be a point for discussion. Hardly an engineering topic outside of come chemistry. There are numerous reference in the "history book" of strange happenings at that time of earth. Similar occurrences are happening today but we have the ability to banish these accounts for nefarious reasons.

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#108
In reply to #16

Re: Origin of Life

07/08/2015 5:08 PM

Skimming though this thread rather quickly, but this one caught my eye...

"...sterile but nutritious soil..."

Soil is a symbiotic ecosystem cr4p-full of bacteria and fungi... far from sterile.

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#112
In reply to #108

Re: Origin of Life

07/09/2015 5:08 AM

That is a half truth. Greenhouses sterilize soil by use methly bromide to sterilize soil. Once sterilize, they can grow plants that they want, weed free, I believe they also use bromine gas for larger plots, by putting a tarp over it, and pump the gas through, and wait for the soil to be situated.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/mbr/qa.html

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#125
In reply to #112

Re: Origin of Life

07/09/2015 6:39 PM

Learn something new everyday, thanks.

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#45

Re: Origin of Life

07/06/2015 10:16 AM

Just to summarize, Dr Hazen in the referenced work, presents the basic hypothesis that given the necessary raw materials, sufficient energy, and an appropriate environment, the emergence of life is the inevitable consequence of the laws of chemistry and physics; and this hypothesis is testable by scientific experiment.

A few of my own remarks:

There is the conjecture that life on Earth was "seeded" from an extraterrestrial source. While this is conceivable, it just pushes the question of life's origin to a different place in space and time.

Another question is why do we not see the emergence of new life today? My answer is that living organisms have populated every possible environment on this planet. All of the precursor components necessary for life are consumed as fast as they are created.

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