Previous in Forum: API Tank- Stress relieve   Next in Forum: Welding to Sock-o-let After Hydro Test
Close
Close
Close
19 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster #1

Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 5:39 AM

What would be the arrangement for the automatic venting of a centrifugal pump with a flooded suction?

Fluid medium contains metallic solids and hazardous will NOT be suited to use:

1. Any manual valve or device.

2. Vent device with a chamber such kienetic or combined valve.

3. Bled valve.

Fitting a fluid sensor coupled to an automatic operated valve could be considered.

Pump fitted with DN40 suction & discharge DN25 at 6 bar, ambient temperature.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
2
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#1

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 6:21 AM

We are going to need some clarifications:

Can we assume you are pumping a slurry? The viscosity and amount of suspended solids may affect the choice of valve and material.

Under what conditions do you want to vent the pump? Overpressure, underpressure, flow rate....what is your criteria for activating the venting feature?

Are there any other ambient conditions we should know about? Hazardous and/or flammability classification of the area where the pump is located?

Can we assume that since the pump inlet is flooded, you want to vent the system downstream of the pump discharge? Or do you want to vent upstream of the pump inlet? Do you plan to de-energize the pump at the same time the vent valve is activated?

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 12:52 PM

Looking for automatic venting arrangement to aid running of a centrifugal pump with single partly-open vane impeller:

1. Medium - 90% water 10% sediment (25 years of corroded mild steel / aluminium alloy) SG 1.05 - Viscosity like 'milk' e.g. 3 Centipoise. Contains radioactive products.

2. Prior to starting pump, flood a horizontal suction line from clean water tank as pump must lift medium from storage tank. Anti syphon valve fitted between horizontal and vertical sections.

3. With stationary pump must have automatic venting of casing and displaced air from suction line. ( Operators have no access to pump and cannot use valves with chambers (e.g. kinetic, combined ) or bled block valves.))

4. Vent line returns vapour and small amount of carry over liquor to a catch pot.

5. Option of using fluid sensors to shut valve or de-energise pump should liquor enter catch pot.

6. Running pump can cope with 3% air.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: sometimes Wales,UK.. was Libya, now Oman!
Posts: 1715
Good Answers: 117
#7
In reply to #3

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 10:25 PM

And to where to you wish to vent this pump to?

Atmosphere?

It contains radioactive material. Is this NORM or from another source?

__________________
The square root of nothing is what you make it!
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United States - Member - Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saint Helens, Oregon
Posts: 2216
Good Answers: 70
#2

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 12:11 PM

Sounds like a homework assignment coming from an AP

__________________
Confucius once said, “ Ability will never catch up with the demand for it".
Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#4

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 3:49 PM

This whole process seems to have too much carryover liquor.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#5

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 5:27 PM

Plumb the pump so that the volute is always flooded.

Or, use an automatic air vent valve.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Out of your mind! Not in sight!
Posts: 4424
Good Answers: 108
#6

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/13/2015 9:30 PM

If fluid is hazardous make sure you have a system to contain the vented fluids.

__________________
Common Sense Dictates
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: India-Chennai.
Posts: 722
Good Answers: 30
#8

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 1:32 AM

We had similar requirement for a vertical pump at remote area but not hazards as in your case. The nature of the fluid releases gas especially at the stand-by pump. We established a positive arrangement which used an ejector system to keep constantly venting the stand-by pump using the forcing liquid from the duty pump. To control the excess spill back an orifice was introduced before the entry in to the source storage.

You may simplify this elaborated arrangement by continually venting the sand-by pump through an orifice to the source tank.

__________________
A picture worth thousand words: needless to say if it is animated.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 3:17 AM

Using the running pump to flood the stand-by pump is interesting.

With a centrifugal pump will the impeller turn the shaft and affect the electric motor on stand-by pump set?

How was the orifice selected?

These pumps' vent lines are connected to a collection vessel that will hold any liquid carry over. Liquid is returned to the storage tank by operating a remote operated valve fitted to the collection tank. Vapours are exhausted naturally from the collection vessel via a vent U-pipe into the enclosed un-manned compartment surrounding both the storage tank and collection vessel.

Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 4:25 AM

A picture might be worth 1000 words.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: India-Chennai.
Posts: 722
Good Answers: 30
#18
In reply to #9

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 1:31 PM

I am trying to attach an image to support my explanation to your question, but the image is not getting in, not even the emotion icons:(

Can some one help me on this?

__________________
A picture worth thousand words: needless to say if it is animated.
Reply
Member

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 7
#11

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 5:02 AM

try using a "pinch" valve (AKO / Paladon manufacture these) they are pneumatically operated and allow a full bore uninterrupted flow characteristic, on demand or signal they are instant actuation, many types of liner are available, dependant on wetted fluid / metallic conditions.

you can also energise these to normally closed in failsafe mode to suit the control functionality of your system

hope this helps.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 6:14 AM

Pinch valves work by squeezing a flexible tube closed. That will not work for the OP because his system has an abrasive radioactive fluid. Plastic tubing will not work in that service. Because of the abrasive fluid, he will need materials that can stand up to abrasion as well as the radioactive nature of the fluid.

Something else we need to know: how much air is entrained prior to pump startup? The OP says the pump can stand 3% air (assume he means by volume). We need to know how much air is entrained because if there is too much air at first, a vent valve must be located upstream of the pump inlet. If this is the case, a second valve may be needed to vent the pump casing.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: sometimes Wales,UK.. was Libya, now Oman!
Posts: 1715
Good Answers: 117
#13

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 6:21 AM

Gentlemen

before we start giving the solutions to this question, my BIG concern is the radioactive bit.

Not a very big word, but has a huge impact on all we do.

Where does this source come from, if vented where will it go, what are the protocols for containment and disposal, does the OP and the operation understand the environmental impact, which country, and finally do they know the type of isotope?

I STRONGLY suggest we stop answering until this VITAL point is covered.

__________________
The square root of nothing is what you make it!
Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 6:36 AM

Its a self contained unmanned area seperate from the environment & regulated. Hence the automated means of venting within this area. Appreciate the good ideas.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Member

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 7
#15
In reply to #13

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 7:01 AM

I agree that the radioactivity level / source / radiological protocols need to be verified, it could be LLW, ILW or HLW - I suggest that once this has been confirmed, then further reference is drawn from C4/5 R4/5 containment principles from say NVF/DG001:July 2009, which will cover issues of the 'vented' nature, rather than wetted surfaces from any direct radioactive liquor / particulate solids contact - which I assume (at this point) would be handled by other downstream 'systems' evaporators, scrubbers etc. whereas it appears as if this application is a system venting contam air, this would need to be via HEPA filtration and an assessment of any particulate held within the containment identified & subsequently designed accordingly. This seems to be developing into a far more critical application & should be given the respect of seeking a nuclear containment specialist?

Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 7:22 AM

This system is within a self contained unmanned area with no emissions & regulated. Discharges & vented air remains within this area.

Some good ideas given. Much appreciated.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#17
In reply to #13

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 7:27 AM

The OP clarified that this venting system is a closed loop, and implied the vented air/fluid mixture was recirculated to a catch tank.

But you make an excellent point....the more I see of this system, the less I like it.

Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#19

Re: Centrifugal Pump - Unique Venting Arrangement

07/14/2015 3:41 PM

An automatic vent valve may be had for less than £15GBP. Why is CR4 to be bothered with this thread? <sigh>

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Reply to Forum Thread 19 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); brich (2); dj95401 (1); IdeaSmith (1); JohnBkk (3); lyn (1); pdef1949 (3); peter grasby (2); PWSlack (1); Tornado (2); yesyen (2)

Previous in Forum: API Tank- Stress relieve   Next in Forum: Welding to Sock-o-let After Hydro Test

Advertisement