Adhesive for Silicone to ABS Plastic

Not much to go on.

Use a single part silicone rubber adhesive in a tube.

One that smells like vinegar will work best.

Many here will tell you that they have the best "glue" for this.

Silicone bond well to silicone and adequately to ABS.

Are you sure it's silicone, and ABS?

Specific information, like what you are trying to do would help.

Thank you so much for your response! I am creating a surgery simulation model where the muscles/tendons/ligaments are made of a Smooth On brand silicone. I am trying to attach the silicone muscles and tendons to a 3D printed pelvis that was printed with ABS plastic. I need the muscles to be adhered tight enough so that an incision can be made and the muscles can be moved without coming off of the ABS plastic pelvis.

Well, never having performed any surgery before I have no idea of muscle consistency.

Are you familiar with Shore hardness of materials?

My guess is that muscles are around 10-40 A scale, maybe softer.

Hover and left click on the graph for details.

Enough for now.

Muscles stretch, but tendon don't, are you making the muscles and tendons out of the same material?

If you're making 'stretchy tendons,' then don't worry about glue, use a mechanical connection, have the 'tendon' pass through a hole in the 'bone' where it attaches, and have a loop at the end that would be secured by a peg/screw/bolt inside the 'bone.'

That way, you can also replace the 'muscles' with fresh ones after the students have sliced them up.

One that smells like vinegar will work best.

This would be acetic silicone adhesive.

Give these guys a call with your specifications.....

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Support/Technical-News-Articles/?PC_Z7_U00M8B1A00NI60IDFIPS8T3HR2000000_assetId=1319224040448

Cool stuff....

additionally....

http://www.all-glue.com/silicone-with-abs-plastic-adheisves-p-562-813.html

Dunno, but try a good quality cyanoacrylate (superglue), usually works with rubbery materials

Del

Works well with rubbery materials, except silicone rubber.

Silicone's unique chemical make-up makes it difficult to bond.

bugger...Del

It occurs to me that some cat claws would provide a good grip....

http://technabob.com/blog/2009/05/12/rise-v3-pole-climbing-robot/

Use a RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) silicone sealant. http://www.all-glue.com/silicone-with-abs-plastic-adheisves-p-562-813.html. Clean surfaces with toluene or denatured alcohol prior to applying the glue. The silicone sealants work well in industry, commerce, work and residential situations. Total hardening time of 24 hours like the rest of sealants. Smells like Acetic Acid. When I needed to glue silicone rubber stoppers to PVC it worked extremely well. Should act the same with ABS. Got mine at the big orange box in the paint dept.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Had to read all of the posts before replying. I had your idea, but you said it better!

Pro-Seal^TM is a silicone formulation that is quite sticky; i.e, it doesn't just pull off later. I'm not sure that it is as strong as the silicone extrusions you are probably using as simulated muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. I wonder what they use to attach rear-view mirror mounting stalks to windshields--that's pretty tough until it finally breaks.

One of the best adhesives I have used in heavy transport body assembly is Simons 70-03 Look up the spec sheet for it. It blew away at least 10 other big name products that claimed high bond strength on difficult materials .

Silicone is notoriously difficult to bond to any relatively smooth plastic surface. If you have not yet printed your pelvis I suggest that you give the surface layer the equivalent of osteoporosis to provide a keyed surface for the silicone glue that you eventually select.

Several good suggestions on the silicone side. Chemically, what needs to happen is at least a partial de-polymerization on both sides (i. e., a solvent that does not impair cross-linking as the reaction progresses), then re-polymerization. The manufacturers of the base materials are good places to start. Of course, outfits like the suggested 3-M might have just the product.

Just for giggles, try clear fingernail polish. Hitting the surface of each with an ice (ersatz sand) blaster might also help.

No need for me to expand it to two or more pages. Yours is very clear, concise, to the point and easy to understand. Other than to say Hello, that's all from me. Hope all CR4's have an enjoyable LABOR DAY. Hope there is no labor in it for you.

Good Luck, Old Salt

I have had good luck with Loctite 454 surface insensitive gel bonding flexible tubing to hard substrates. I have some samples I did 6 or 7 years ago (indoors) and the bond is stronger than the vinyl tube. Don't get it on your fingers! Some silicone's might require a primer or etch, there are many grades. Find a Loctite distributor if the 454 doesn't work, they make a hundred different adhesives and surface pretreatments, and have great tech support. GE made a primer for glass to help bond clear silicone to encapsulate solar cells, I have some panels that are twenty five years old and still good. I had used it on polycarbonate but not ABS, you will have to try it.

No offense to members here but,

Before I leave let me say that comments such as "One of the best adhesives I have used in heavy transport body assembly" and "chemically, what needs to happen is at least a partial de-polymerization on both sides" and finally, "I have had good luck with Loctite 454/samples I did 6 or 7 years ago (indoors) and the bond is stronger than the vinyl tube" are all incorrect and misleading.

Disregard them.

I support the comments made by old salt and Tornado and the affirmation of Mikerho.

I stand by my comment that "Many here will tell you that they have the best "glue" for this" without having actually used their favorites on silicones.

I don't mean to belittle them, but it's true.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

By the way, the baby blue moon boots worn by the Apollo Astronauts while walking on the moon were made from RTV-630. (A non-adhesive type of two part silicone)

I was a materials engineer at that time for one of the major electronics firms supplying equipment to NASA.

Sorry I tripped you up when I mentioned "vinyl", but the product has been my go to when I have difficult bond problems. This is a trial and error problem, you are going to have to try several different things. Silicone rubber is a name for hundreds of different materials, most of them siloxane materials, you might have to try several different adhesives. Sorry I din't think that folks would decide something wasn't good without looking up the spec sheet : "LOCTITE 454 PRISM GEL, clear, one part, room temperature cure, surface insensitive instant adhesive designed for the OEM assembly of difficult-to-bond materials which require uniform stress distribution. Particularly suited for bonding porous or absorbent materials. No-run viscosity for large gaps and vertical surfaces." The 454 has a significantly higher bond strength, usually exceeding the tear strength of most elastomers, especially difficult to bond ones. While the spec sheet says especially good on porous surfaces, as it is an anaerobic adhesive it works great on non porous also in my experience. Solvent cleaning on silicone rubber may not have any effect, and some times can cause weakening on the surface. Some times it will pull the filler materials out of the surface, and increase the bond strength. Best contact an adhesive maker and ask them about a surface etch. Some silicones will inhibit the cure of others applied to them, so that would make a silicone adhesive a poor first choice, but maybe worth a try. The silicone in a tube is most likely moisture cured, meaning that the further under your silicone sheet the less dry it will be, so if you are trying to bond anything of size, it will take months to dry into the center. It also has a fairly low bond strength. Also the acetic acid smell is given off by the cure process of some silicones, and will destroy metals, wiring if it can't get away. I don't have your materials science degree, I have just been trying to stick all kinds of odd things together for the last 50 years.

Thin glass filaments may make a good bonding medium and act as a good simulation of tendon material. Since glass has a much higher tensile strength and hardness than tendon, you may be able to adjust these properties by controlled exposure to glass etchants with quick rinse.

As mentioned earlier, a mechanical bond/anchor (drill and tap a #2 machine screw hole) may be made (by creating a ABS rivet-rough textured) formed around the glass fiber bundles then pressed into the machined holes with a coating of glass powder and acetone. Preheating the bone may be a good idea before inserting the peg/rivet.

The glass fiber may be brushed with a thin coat of silicone adhesive to serve as a bonding intermediary to the smooth on silicone and better simulate individual muscle fibers. Meanwhile, combs inserted between the end-spaced rods help the strands stay separate while brushing silicone on the fibers. The reason for this extra step is the silicone sealant will bond better to the filament than the silicone rubber will and the rubber should bond to the sealant better as well.

To simplify fabrication, it may be best to wind the glass filament on an adjustable length mandrel made from 4 lengths of 1/4-20 all thread rod (2 rods at each end spaced apart for rivet formation) fed through and secured to channel steel which has quarter inch holes evenly spaced down it's length. You may find this type of channel ready to buy and cut to desired length so you don't have to drill holes, evenly spaced down the length of the channel. A temporary 1/4 inch all thread rod would run across the middle for rotating on axis as you wind the filament transversely (similar to winding fishing line on a reel). Maybe attach a cordless drill to the center rod and carefully adjust the speed as you wind the filament to save time. 4 nuts per all-thread with lock nuts and washers will secure the channel from wobbling during rotation.

This jig may add some time but can make it much easier to mass produce various length fibers with the ends clean and ready to bunch and mold into ABS plugs for anchoring. You can even make the coated fibers a dark red (compatible filler) added during tack to give the muscle more realistic look. Hot melt glue may be used to stabilize the spread and also use to add different length filaments wrapped around the end to simulate tapering as you would see with ligaments.

medical students will be slicing the tendons and muscles up with scalpels so glass fibres or metal screws wont be featuring in his design.

I already knew the students would be slicing up the muscles and tendons. That's why I suggest....

The fibers would be so thin, limited in count (5 to 25 fibers), and material properties altered by etching to be comparable to ligament and reinforce the anchor point by folding extra strands .5 to 1.5 inches longer than the anchors. Besides, there may be little choice since the smooth on silicone doesn't stick well to other adhesives.

I would check the strength of glass fibers at approx. the diameter of fine human hair and test several exposure times to etchant to see how easy a scalpel would cut through.

If 30 to 40 cadavers are to be made, the overhead of fabricating individually coated fiber bundles shouldn't add too much time.

Why not?

There are already glass fibers and metal screws in the resuci-annie dolls, using a removable megnahical anchor to secure a destructible bit of a model to the reusable part makes perfect sense, you just, as I stated earlier, place it out of the way of the 'primary activity area.'

You may also find this link interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=397&v=Mh9KF69lfwA