Electro-motive Power Processing In Wheeled Conveyance

Speakee Engrish even more awesome.

Torque is something the load presents to the motor. Motor power is torque multiplied by angular velocity so in principle whether the motor is on the rim or on the hub matters not a jot. For power demand is rate of change of potential energy plus losses due to friction, which is a function of where the machine is and how its speed is changing. Introduce a gearbox and one inevitably introduces losses.

--------"Motor power is torque multiplied by angular velocity so in principle whether the motor is on the rim or on the hub matters not a jot."-----

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Please be patient with me.

The question was - "In a Wheeled Electromotive Transportation Power Process could the drive wheel torque to ampere ratio be optimized by placing the impulse at the rim of the wheel instead of at the axle?"

When I look at the definition of "Moment of Force" I find - "A measure of the tendency of a force to rotate the body on which it is applied. Measured by multiplying the magnitude of the force by the perpendicular distance from the line of action of the force to the axis of rotation."

Since the magnetic force acting on the rotor (magnets in the wheel rim) is going to be directly proportional to the current flowing in the stator coil and the moment of force (torque) is directly proportional to the distance from the axis of rotation; if follows that the amount of current flowing in the coils of the stator for each unit of torque will be inversely proportional to the distance from the axis of rotation.

This does not contradict your statement that Power = Torque * Angular velocity it merely extends that to Power = (F * r) * (angular velocity).

For any given amount of torque the required force (and thus stator coil current) decreases as r increases.

In terms of electrical power Voltage * Current = (F *r) * angular velocity

Does this appear to be an accurate assessment?

Any correction or other shared knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

I'm almost too tired to answer after reading all that...

I suspect gears are a more economical way to increase torque since most manufacturers use that method.

As for regenerative braking on a bicycle, I'm not sure it's worth the extra cost. I have an electric bike, and I can't say I use the brakes very much. The air drag on a bicycle accounts for most of the drag, and of course, that is not recoverable.

Here is an analysis that indicates that regenerative braking may not be worth the cost...

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/530f94cde4b0f38aa20cfad0/t/54e28e20e4b05ae6226b267f/1424133664794/regenbraking.pdf

Thank you for your link.

The analysis of an electric bike power usage and losses was quite interesting.

The proposed bicycle is not an electric bicycle in the conventional sense. It is a human powered bicycle that is trading off the efficiency of chain and sprocket for the advantage of electro-motive processing of trip cycle throughput energy.

The storage type described in the link as well as the regenerative efficiencies are not typical of the conceived process where the required amp hour storage is some small fraction of an electric bicycle and thus allowing for the adaptation of super capacitance for the storage medium. This greatly increases the power density in storage acceptance resulting in higher braking force as well as reducing the mass and volume fractions dedicated to storage.

Also; the efficiency of the prime mover, in this case a human is a huge factor in determining required energy input for any highly variable trip cycle.

Let us consider a prime mover that is 25 percent efficient in converting fuel to work.

In the case of an Internal Combustion Engine for each Joule of applied work 4 joules of combustion energy must be consumed. It then follows that for each Joule of energy regenerated 4 units of combustion energy is saved. This is NOT over unity; it is simply the relationship of prime mover efficiency to regenerated energy where energy not consumed approximates the energy regenerated divided by the prime mover efficiency factor.

I think you're saying the biker pedals all the time and charges super capacitors to help on climbing hills. Whether this would be easier on the rider, I don't know. There will be some loss involved in this process.

As far as motor vehicle application, I believe this is the principle behind hybrid cars, to run the engine at the most efficient speed and store the energy in batteries.

Current hybrid automobiles are parallel processes that put real time demand on the prime mover. As far as I know there are no manufacturers using power averaging in a series hybrid configuration.

Depends on the physical type the biker is. In cycling there are 2 main types of cyclists. Those that are very good at pedaling at a high rate for hours on end (mountain climbing specialists, and time trial specialists) and those who are much better at very high energy outputs for short time periods with rest in between. (sprinters) Basically the fast twitch versus the slow twitch fiber issue, which is very much observable in bicycle racing. Nairo Quintana versus Mark Cavendish for those familiar with the sport.

The proposed system would favor the climbing types, and definitely not me. Give me some rest periods between pedal sessions, please.

"Give me some rest periods between pedal sessions, please." -

Not a problem. The process allows for inputting and storing excess energy above the programmed constant.

In your case you would choose both the angular velocity and torque of input when you wanted to input VS the terrain or other variable making that decision for you:

The process is designed to accept excess storage energy - with in reason.

The total energy state being monitored as a function of Gravitational Potential, Kinetic Energy, and stored energy.

There are electric bikes with regenerative brakes, the problem is we need variable regenerative capability for greater efficiency....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rky9cX_-roI

https://www.electricbike.com/regenerative-brakes/

Sweet picture !!!!!!

--- "There are electric bikes with regenerative brakes, the problem is we need variable regenerative capability for greater efficiency...."

Thank you for your reply. I wish I could upload jpeg files but it just doesn't work for me.

I believe that in most regenerative capable systems storage acceptance rates are the greatest challenge in recovering energy from hard braking.

I would think that variable braking force could be accomplished by using pulse width modulation or "reactive" control. If the required component parameters for a "reactive control" method are available then it would significantly reduce the switching losses that I believe to be associated with pulse width modulation.

I have been working on a simplified circuit diagram for quite some time. This circuit diagram attempts to describe a "reactive control" method for both power and regenerative braking and I will put it out as soon as I am ready to be devoured by the brain zombies here and have figured out how to upload a picture file. I have no delusions as to its practicality as it currently exists; it is intended to be a used solely to stimulate technical discourse.

The "art" that I have been attempting to upload as part of this thread has a circuit as part of the picture but it is there only to show that the process involves electronic control methods and is nothing close to the descriptive simplified circuit diagram. The "art" is a graphic description of the overall process.

Any ideas on how I might be able to get the jpeg file uploaded?

Yes just click on the camera icon, and choose file...the file should be located in your computer somewhere I'm guessing..It should be saved in pictures or downloads or documents..what browser are you using....Chrome seems to work well...Tell me at what point you get stumped...

It maybe possible however using current available methodology and equipment to capture, store, and release the regenerated energy would add far too much weight to the bicycle or other craft therefore minimizing or totally defeating any efficiency gains.

Below there is one of the many links to sites that display supposed perpetual motion generator technology all of which is a takeoff from Tesla's research notes.

If this is indeed "real"; I would assume this would be the direction to pursue in adapting this technology onto the wheels of the craft to maximize energy efficiency.

I personally think we are on the verge of some very big breakthroughs in this field of R&D.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeujwp_best-perpetual-motion-electric-gene_tech

I am having a very hard time in finding the inductance of a typical electric bicycle motor.

Anybody have any ideas?

An Introduction to Reactive Proportional Control Theory as applied to Series Hybrid Electromotive Power Processes:

Reactive Control optimizes the physics of series resonance and is scalable from Bicycles to Locomotives; with applications in many other proportional control processes.

In a human powered bicycle or pedi-cab application, instantaneous power output of the prime mover approximates the force on the pedal * length of the crank arm * angular velocity of the crank. Those physical relationships remain the same; but that is where the similarities end.

Power provided by the prime mover is converted to electrical energy via an alternator and fed to a storage capacitance. Depending on the application this output AC is first fed to a high ratio transformer before a full wave rectifier and then into the storage capacitor.

Torque demand on the prime mover is controlled by varying the admittance of the Power Circuit. (1/z where z is circuit impedance) The torque demand on the prime mover is inversely proportional to Power Circuit Admittance (1/z). Maximum torque demand is greatest when capacitive and inductive values are at resonance with the generator frequency. The input frequency is defined by the rotational speed of the prime mover crank and number of magnetic poles in the generator.

The Power Circuit admittance is controlled by the operator via a variable control capacitance, inductance, or both. When combined with temporary storage this removes real-time demand on the prime mover and allows the operator to input power at any point in the trip; regardless of terrain or other variables. Peak demand is met by capacitated energy and can far exceed the peak power output of the prime mover for short periods of time.

This power production method also eliminates all mechanical linkage between prime-mover and drive wheel(s).

Power for propulsion is drawn off the storage capacitor based on real time demand; and regenerated brake energy returned to storage. The same proportional control methodology is used in the propulsion and regenerative braking circuits.

Below is the familiar equation for RLC series resonance. As stated above; maximum torque demand on the Permanent Magnet Alternator (PMA) occurs when the PMA output frequency is at resonance with the charging circuit. f=1/(2π√LC in HZ or ω=1/√LC