Previous in Forum: Fire Proof Requirement for Actuator   Next in Forum: Endress Hauser Prowirl Steam Flow Meter
Close
Close
Close
21 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster #1

Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/15/2016 9:29 AM

Please let me know if there is any transmitter available in the market to measure the inside DCS cabinet room (FAR) to measure differential pressure of atmospheric (outside) & inside room

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#1

Re: P T

02/15/2016 10:15 AM

Yes

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: P T

02/15/2016 10:49 AM

Yes, there are numerous ways.

But, why would you care? The control system doesn't!

Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#3

Re: P T

02/15/2016 11:01 AM

Yes, there is. However, without any detail of the application, it is practically impossible to advise further.

It is not possible to give this detail within a single sentence, so try making as detailed a description as possible about the issue in, say, three or four paragraphs, please.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#4

Re: P T

02/15/2016 1:02 PM

We have to maintain a positive pressure inside the room (DCS cabinet room) which is located away from DCS control room & it should be monitored by the operators .

Hence i need differntial pressure transmitter which can measure upto 0 to 1 mbar with accuracy . This transmitter should be able to measure the positive pressure inside room with respect to outside atmosphere.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#5
In reply to #4

Re: P T

02/15/2016 1:32 PM

Cut a hole in a wall and put a fan in it. Just make sure the fan blows INTO the room.

Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#11
In reply to #5

Re: P T

02/15/2016 8:21 PM

There is more to it than that, but it would part of a solution. The fan's air source would need to be clean(ed), for instance. A DP transducer could serve as a blanket monitor for fan failure, filter clogging, or too many doors/windows left open.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#12
In reply to #11

Re: P T

02/15/2016 8:28 PM

Of course, any reasonable person would know this and at least acknowledge those needs, as well as many others. Space cadets would not.

Needing pressure higher inside a cabinet than outside, ignores so many other details as to be useless.

Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#6
In reply to #4

Re: P T

02/15/2016 4:38 PM

So what? Are they the only numbers available? What size is the room - a broom cupboard or an Olympic stadium? That sort of thing. Three or four paragraphs is what the forum needs to come up with something approaching a useful answer to a post.

And please don't let the forum play "20 Questions", as to do so is the best way of annoying other contributors.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#7
In reply to #6

Re: P T

02/15/2016 5:27 PM

I think we have someone here who has no appreciation/understanding of the requirements of the "room".

WHY positive pressure is needed?

If it's 50°C hotter outside the room, is positive pressure still needed?

What inside the room needs to be at just higher that the pressure outside the room? The circuit board? The electrons doing the work?

<Beam me up, Scottie. AP#1 is lost in space>

Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Earth - I think.
Posts: 2143
Good Answers: 165
#8
In reply to #7

Re: P T

02/15/2016 7:46 PM

There are circumstances where a positive pressure is not only desirable, but necessary. Having worked in the mining industry, having mineral laden dust in electronics cabinets will wreak havoc.

However, it doesn't require nano control, or even monitoring. That should have been taken care of during the original build.

Unfortunately, we are dealing with a clueless poster, so we may never know the application.

__________________
TANSTAAFL (If you don't know what that means, Google it - yourself)
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 4496
Good Answers: 137
#19
In reply to #8

Re: P T

02/16/2016 9:40 AM

Agreed. When a control panel, MCC or even complete control room is in a hazardous area it's likely to be cheaper to keep it slightly pressurised using air from outside the area than to install zone-rated kit (if that's an option for eg traditional contactors).

But as you say, fancy pressure control seems OTT. Usually pressure switches are OK, maybe one to give an alarm on falling pressure, another to trip a breaker on low-low.

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#17
In reply to #6

Re: P T

02/16/2016 9:26 AM

As far as I know pressure difference is NOT depending on room size. But of course I may be wrong, as usual.

Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#9

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/15/2016 8:13 PM

Maybe Dwyer.

The inquiry is reasonable, so don't be discouraged by irrelevant criticisms.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#10

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/15/2016 8:15 PM

Why do I sense (pun intended) that this "room" is located in a classified area, and AP wants to pressurize it to get around a potential costly hazardous classification problem for all the equipment in it.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#13
In reply to #10

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/15/2016 9:41 PM

Positive pressure systems are one of our banes down here.

__________________
jack of all trades
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#16
In reply to #10

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/16/2016 7:08 AM

If that is the case then the facility has a serious process materials containment problem. Which needs solving first.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 335
Good Answers: 63
#14

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/15/2016 10:50 PM

HVAC uses stuff DP transmitters or switches for this all the time. No hazardous rating, a DP analog signal or alarm/control switch.

1 mbar is about 0.4 inches water column.

This vendor has a 0.50 inches water column range DP.

There are hose barbs on the rear for soft tubing connections.

Place I'm working at today uses them with the 4-20mA transmitter output.

0 to 0.20 inches wc

Probably a half dozen other vendors, too.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/16/2016 12:21 AM

Great answer!

I worked with DP transmitters when I was with a flowmeter manufacturing company. It was very straightforward using these in our systems. I had the job of programming the PLC with temp and pressure inputs. We were using modified patented pitot assemblies that worked quite well. We used Dwyer DP transmitters as low as 0.1 InH2O.

The highlight (NOT!) of that job was going into the field to calibrate the flowmeters in 5ft diameter ducts with contents at 575ºF using a traversing technique (which you probably know about). It was a coal fired power plant and the atmosphere was choking.

Anyway, a nice, very understandable, succinct post! GA!

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 183
#18

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/16/2016 9:39 AM

It is very curious how participants react to a simple question.

They give the feeling that the one who asked is a stupid person who in fact does not know all the depth hidden behind his inquiry.

The question is about a differential pressure transmitter for Δp=1mbar. Does the reason for which the question was put have any impact on the answer? The only one would be if the transmitter can be "normal" or has to be for ex conditions. The rest has no reason neither to be mentioned nor discussed.

Matter of fact is not always present in our discussions.

Such devices are available either as mems or ceramic sensors for very low prices.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 101
Good Answers: 6
#20

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/16/2016 2:06 PM

You can use Honeywell Model STD 110 differential pressure transmitter ,which can be calibrated to 0 to 1.0 mBar

__________________
If you don't know where you are going,you are bound to get there
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where the sun sets on OZ
Posts: 1381
Good Answers: 28
#21

Re: Differential Pressure Measurement for DCS Cabinet Room

02/16/2016 7:58 PM

Is it possible to use a plumbing 'S' trap with a stand pipe of "tuned" length to maintain a set pressure in cm of water. A clear stand pipe can show the level from some distance if the water is coloured. Of course a stand pipe higher than the outside one would need to be on the inside to contain the water in cases of pressure loss or reversal. The 'S' trap would not be necessary just convenient.

In other words a water manometer large enough to be seen from a distance installed on the outside wall.

Jim

__________________
Where's the KaBoom? There should be a KaBoom!
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 21 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Carl_E (1); Codemaster (1); jack of all trades (1); JIMRAT (1); Kilowatt0 (1); lyn (4); Mikerho (1); nick name (3); PWSlack (3); RAMConsult (1); srini (1); Tornado (2)

Previous in Forum: Fire Proof Requirement for Actuator   Next in Forum: Endress Hauser Prowirl Steam Flow Meter

Advertisement