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Earth Axis on the Move?

04/21/2016 11:52 PM

The planet's North Pole mysteriously changed the direction of its travel in 2000, turning eastwards towards the Greenwich meridian. It now seems that this change in direction is down to the redistribution of water on land as well as to melting polar ice. So, what do think the North pole will do when the ice covering Greenland melts due to global warming?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2083481-why-the-north-pole-is-now-slowly-moving-towards-london/

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#1

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 12:03 AM

England will end up being at the North Pole...?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 12:18 AM

Oh, heavens no! The North Pole will wind up in England, and we will have to rewrite some Santa Claus stuff.

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#3
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Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 12:27 AM
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#4
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Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 12:45 AM

I will never call my truck a lorry.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 12:57 AM

I wouldn't truckle with that, either; but wait until KrisDel and PW et al. weigh in.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 3:03 AM

No chance.

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#26
In reply to #2

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/23/2016 2:32 PM

Brit's can't do a revolving door without 'after you old chap', Christmas will be a right mess.

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#6

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 12:57 AM

I remember reading some where, that previous ice ages where proceeded by global warming? and we have now reached that temp? and the change over happened quickly? So Father Christmas will have to move too London, Ummm Cockney Xmas carols.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 2:31 AM

Ghost of Christmas future sings....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmN5ueKucMg

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#9
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Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 2:49 AM

3 min and 50 sec, that a lot of information, I'll have to think about that?

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#7

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 2:27 AM

The rotational axis can not make a movement related to anything on Earth. It can shift its angles as seen from outside but it will not move towards London, because London rotates on the same axis. There will be no change unless the continent shifts, but then its London moving towards the pole and not the other way around.

Another piece of Journal science.

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#11

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 3:04 AM

At a guess, it will all go doo-lally.

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#12

Re: Earth axis on the move?

04/22/2016 3:15 AM

Wibbly wobbly roundy roundy...
And I have a CAD simulation to back that up
Del

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#13

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 9:15 AM

I'm still waiting for LA to slide past San Fran

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#14

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 10:38 AM

It seems odd that an on-going, gradual change in ice thicknesses and the movement of water can cause a sudden shift in the position and direction of the pole. The redistribution of water and melting of polar ice isn't really even climate change, since those have been the effects of the current climate for some time dating back to the late 1800s. (Of course, they don't say exactly how much the pole has moved. The 75 degree change in direction they mention can occur over a distance of just a few centimeters.)

I think it's more likely that the change would be caused by a combination of El Nino / La Nina events and plate tectonics. The 1997-98 El Nino was the largest one ever recorded. Also, there were a large number of magnitude 8.0+ and 7.0+ earthquakes in the late 1990s, compared to the long term trend of earthquakes.

The Climate Change crowd treats every factoid of information likes it's a nail and 'Climate Change' is a hammer.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 11:32 AM

...and we are the coffin, not just in the coffin.

What a complete pile of balderdash. I am back to my hover board design.

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#16

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 2:13 PM

Isn't this just Axial precession at work....?

"Precessional movement of Earth. Earth rotates (white arrows) once a day around its rotational axis (red); this axis itself rotates slowly (white circle), completing a rotation in approximately 26,000 years"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

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#17
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 3:20 PM

Yes, but I would not hold my breath on that one either.

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#19
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 5:12 PM

You'll need a permit for any precession that long.

Special use permits are obtained at the Interplanetary Tax and License Department on Neptune.

Look under: Parade Permits in Section 234.7 Para. v subsection A-186,282 m/s.

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 5:35 PM

No. Axial precession is the movement of the direction of the pole in space over a 26,000 year period. Not the movement of the pole across the Earth's surface. Precession is what makes Polaris the 'pole star' right now for the northern hemisphere. In 3000 BC Thuban was the pole star.

The term you're looking for is polar motion. Polar motion is the movement of the position of the pole on the surface of the Earth, and it's position varies over a short time span of months.

Another phenomenon is nutation, a wobble on top of precession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutation

Together these 3 phenomenon account for the motion of the pole in space.

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/23/2016 12:04 AM

Holy crap....

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#29
In reply to #20

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/25/2016 8:19 AM

It is as though (and it is) what our physics teachers in high school, and our college physics professors taught us about pendulums has all been wadded up and thrown in the garbage, because that is what it is. Same for spinning tops.

Neither situation takes on ideal simple harmonic motion. There are complexities even in period of a pendulum (and of course amplitude), as well as in a spinning pseudosphere.

The thing I don't get about the nutation effect superimposed upon the precession is how it arises, what physical force causes it?

The article OP linked to basically states that some of the rotational axis shift (note, this is not the shift in magnetic pole), is due to shifts in distribution of water around the planet. Maybe a wet year can cause this? El Nino? Large bodies of water being drained is a more likely explanation in some cases.

One thing I learned last night on National Geographic channel (Drain the Oceans), was about how scientists used satellites to get the most accurate measurements to date (not sonar, surprisingly) on ocean floor topography. It is by taking very, very accurate measurements of ocean surface topography. It turns out the high seas are in fact high seas. There is as much as something like 3 ft difference in sea level at the mid-oceanic ridges. Scientists were able to work out changes in ocean bottom topography using a simple relationship to sea level. Shocking isn't it? It means that in some places on the ocean, one actually is sailing uphill.

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#18

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 4:58 PM

is this because I had the double cheeseburger and extra large Coke?

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#21
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 7:28 PM

Yes, you're contributing to global fattening....

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#22
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/22/2016 7:36 PM

Fat mass doesn't change, just the distribution.

It's called the Third Law of Conservation of Fat.

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#30
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/25/2016 8:22 AM

Don't ask if those Levi's make your butt look big.

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#33
In reply to #18

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/25/2016 11:00 AM

You should probably eat a salad to bring back balance.

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#24

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/23/2016 12:48 PM

The north pole will do nothing at all. But someone will just have to move the sign saying, 'North Pole Here', and plonk it back in the corrected position.

They could just replace the sign with; 'Be back soon. North Pole now over there'.

Whatever melts over Greenland will just be used up in Antartica. If it is not, then folks had better start drinking more water.

PS, don't forget to move the South Pole signage too.

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#25

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/23/2016 2:14 PM

The pole wanders around all the time due to redistribution of the atmosphere, crust (earthquakes), and ocean currents.

Shlomi.israel - Own work

This is a graph of the polar motion as function of time. z-axis is time stated in day units. x&y-axis are stated in arcsec (0.1 arcsec result in ~3 meters on the pole). It is based on data supplied by IERS. The graph was created with Matlab's plot3 function.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_motion

The primary motion is called the Chandler wobble that has an amplitude of about 9 meters and a period of 433 days as shown above. This combines with an annual cycle to produce a pattern that repeats about every seven years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_wobble

The drift, which has amounted to about 20 m since 1900, is superimposed on these two motions.

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#27
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/23/2016 2:59 PM

Say that looks a lot like a mattress spring.....jus sayin'...

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#28
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/24/2016 12:18 AM

From what I've studied , rising temperatures are most likely temporary . These 40 year old charts illustrating this slow rise is nothing but a snapshot in time . Politics is driving hysteria on this phenomenon. And it's more than likely not a phenomenon at all , just a temperature rise that will probably be followed by a decline in temperature . There are so many variables that to predict a long rise in temperature is probably only fulfilling a political agenda .

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#32
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/25/2016 8:42 AM

I (suspiciously) have the same general feeling about Earth's climate. This planet has been in a habitable condition for a long time, and 99.999% of that due to no fault or intervention of our own making. Also, the real factors that take over the weather and change them in a big way are things like:

(1) giant caldera "super" volcanoes - Krakatoa, The Phlegraean Fields near Naples, Italy, The Yellowstone Caldera.

(2) large asteroid impacts (consider that one struck Antarctica in earth ancient time, and caused the Siberian traps to burst forth with giant lava flows.)

(3) biological conditions that support a massive take over by essentially one species (the ancient carbonate seas, laden with reduced iron were taken over by blue-green algae stromatolytes that cranked out sufficient oxygen to change the entire planet's ecosystem to one where oxygen breathing organisms could flourish, and removed over 99% of the iron from the primordial oceans. What a glorious day that was.

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#31
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/25/2016 8:32 AM

Spoken like a geophysicist, and well stated at that.

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#34

Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

04/29/2016 6:47 PM
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#35
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Re: Earth Axis on the Move?

05/02/2016 8:19 AM

Nah. Just another liberal hack job of concocted data, mostly bullshiete, with some poppycock added for spice.

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