Timelines - Good Idea or Not?

Maybe I should be asking why is it that stupidity is what gets people promoted into positions of management?

Because you need the smart people doing the actual work. And, in engineering, it is quite often a case where the better engineer is a bit worse with "people issues". Read the Dilbert comic strip - that will answer this question quite well.

Speaking of Dilbert, I wonder if Joe's boss had just read this comic before Joe asked for help.

This was the comic last Tuesday.

Gantt Charts can only do so much, As in my earlier post, Earned Value Management (EVM) is more effective because not only does incorporate Charts similar to Gantt, it does the comparison of what was proposed, estimated and reality, of which it can show it graphically.

EVM works best on larger projects say over 7 figures dollar wise because of the upfront work that is needed.

Noted with thanks. Research underway. :-)

Good luck ;-)

"Gantt Charts can only do so much, As in my earlier post, Earned Value Management (EVM) is more effective because not only does incorporate Charts similar to Gantt, it does the comparison of what was proposed, estimated and reality, of which it can show it graphically."

Or to put it simply, EVM is a Procedure, the Gantt Chart is a Tool.

When someone asks, "How do I build this thing?" Is the answer "Follow this procedure," or "Take this cow tool." The first response gives the asker a roadmap to success, the second one only leads to more questions, "What do I do with this tool?"

It all on the prospective.

I use the procedure to create the tool (charts) for the other stake holders to use.

The other Stakeholders does not need to know the procedure or formulas for EVM (that is what the responsibility of the project manager), the stake holders need only the results Charts/graphs).

Timelines are very useful in reminding you that you are behind schedule and highlighting which milestones you have missed.

It has been my experience that no matter how much time you have to complete a project, it is never quite enough.

In other words, if it is on time, fine. If it is late, or if it is early, then someone, somewhere, has screwed up. Which means timelines are always wrong. QED

If you achieve all the milestones on your timeline and complete the project on time, you didn't need the timeline anyway.

Again, they may help to identify the critical path of a project, but they don't do the work.

<...achieve all the milestones...and complete the project on time...didn't need the timeline anyway...> Quite.

Again, they may help to identify the critical path of a project, but they don't do the work.

Gantt Charts is only one dimensional, Your Behind Schedule,... or Budget, or Hours....

You can't look at a Gantt Chart and not so much see where the problem, (which at times you can't), is but to see where you can refine it to make up on lost,.... Time, Money, Hours...

There are tools and techniques that can handle this. But it takes more than "just make it happen" type of attitude.

"No explanation was offered for that. There is never enough time allotted for a project, but when you take more time than allotted, guess what happens to your errors."

No explanation was offered, but a conclusion could be reached: Management is screwing over the projects by shorting them on time. In the Fast-Good-Cheap triangle, they are choosing Fast instead of Good.

Yes - that is the point of my ramblings/complaining. Management simply didn't want to recognize that in front of the general employees.

But that would have made for a great presentation:

"In conclusion, we, the management of this company have found the most unhelpful people, the people who do the least to advance the projects, the people who, in fact, are sabotaging the projects at every turn. We, the management, have found OURSELVES to be the force holding this company back from greatness."

Then the building implodes as the collective gasp from ALL the employees at once sucks the air right out of the structure.

(Yeah, it's cartoony and over the top, but at least I'm not arguing politics. Nobody likes that, least of all me.)

Your second paragraph is great, but it will never happen!

Hence the cartoonish implosion of the building from all the employees 'overgasping' at once. I can tell reality from fantasy, It's just that sometime, fantasy is prettier.

Why is it that in engineering offices they seem to be nothing more than a disaster in the making?

It a matter of poor project management.

When Engineering is assigned a new project, I experienced these factors that are variables come into play.

1. Known unknowns. These one can plan and are expected that one can include in the project budget and schedule.
2. Unknown unknowns: These are can be planned for, but is more difficult to pin a budget and schedule to. But communications is very important here when they do come across.
3. Change Orders: This is the biggest culprit, No matter how small and unassuming a change order is, this you have to keep a close eye on and a short leash. No matter how small this can compound in the scope creep that can make a project fail. And to avoid this, You have to document all change order no matter how small and have it approved by the customer.

And, why is it that once they have been established, managers seem to think that additional tasks have no impact?

These manager may be out of touch, if its shop floor or departmental managers, it is the job of the project manager job to keep them informed of the progress and realistic estimated costs/scheduling. One good tool for larger projects is called Earned Value Management (EVM).

Where you track the progress of the project with a number of different views. Such as for budgeting of; Budgeted, Estimated and reality.

You can do the same thing with scheduling. It give you a good prospective of where you actually are and with milestones it can show you the effects of change and how to handle them.

We had a simple saying back during the cold war when project engineers would bring us work that was needed "tomorrow", and tell us that they "just had to have it".

There's never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

There's a sign in our plant engineers office that applies to your post and it says;

"We the willing, led by the unqualified,

have been doing the unbelievable

for so long with so little,

we now attempt the impossible

with nothing....."

I remember it as "We the willing, led by the unknowing," but same difference.

I remember a similar version:

We, the Unwilling,

led by the Unknowing,

are doing the Impossible

for the Ungrateful.

We have been doing this for so long

with so little,

that we are now qualified

to do Anything

with Nothing.

I've gotten in deep doody from employer's for being on time or worse yet... Ahead of scheduled. Why would I finish a job where additional billing is permitted was the general gripe? The fact that I was continuously over tasked and working long hours to stay ahead was not seen as a viable excuse.

On jobs that had well defined performance goals laid out by management it was always damn near unachievable numbers. Nothing tops out. Growth without reason should always be achived.

Damned if you do/don't.

Manglement "leads" from the top because, in the cesspool of work, feces "floats," which accounts for their upward movement in the 'Peter Principle' (wink,wink)!

Quality - Cost - Schedule

Pick/define any two you- you can calculate the other.

The bain of my life for a number of years in R&D.

You want it when!?!?!
Followed by howls of laughter once the boss had left the office.

I know it's not always a popular opinion, but I don't think all managers are stupid. I've had really good ones and really bad ones at the many jobs I've held over the years. It's remarkable how different your work experience can be if you're working for good managers.

As for timelines, they are unfortunately necessary for budgetary reasons. I think everyone involved knows they are ideal. They can be incredibly frustrating for sure.

"I know it's not always a popular opinion, but I don't think all managers are stupid."

I agree, not all managers are stupid.

...

It's just that 99% of them...

...

...

...give the rest a bad name.

#RecycledLawyerJoke

I, for one, love deadlines; especially the whooshing sound they make as they go by.

Alas, not an original; but I love it.

So this raises the question, do engineers make better managers? Are engineers who become managers, sell-outs because they then have to implement the deadlines? Not being an engineer myself, I see both sides. I'm more of a designer/fabricator, building prototypes and custom devices but still feel the stress of the deadline. My boss is an engineer/general manager and is constantly pushing back deadlines, to upper management, on my behalf. He's only been a manager for a couple years so he still gets it...

No, not necessarily.

Hopefully, it gives them a perspective they would not otherwise have.

I've worn many hats, for the first 40 years all in technical fields.

As the pay grade goes up, so does the stress level and the number of souls under you who can screw it all up for you.

A good manager gets the right people, gives them the right tools, and points them in the direction they need to go. Then he stands back and waits.

A manager is the captain of his ship. His directors can give him a starting point and an ending destination. It's up to him to steer the ship, keep it on course and get it to the dock on time.

Having been through it, that is correct.

Most time, my actions/decisions were based on the overall best for the project, no matter how difficult this may have made my job.

It was a good thing that I enjoyed what I did as well as being in my mid 30's-40's to have the patience and stamina.

But the responsibility always out weighed any perks or benefits.

Hopefully he does not have HIS boss breathing donwn his neck like the captain of the Titanic.

Classic quote from a management meeting when I showed 'em my time scale which included some time for unforeseen problems.
"what are these unforeseen problems?"
Then they didn't like how long it was going to take.
I said, well if you take your pen and cross out where it says "weeks" at the bottom right and write in "days", that will look better, but it won't effect the reality of how long it will take.

But seriously, they are ok if you have control of the work. I've never been late on the delivery of a bow, because I set sensible time scales, usually on the think of a number and double it principle. People are much happier to be surprized by an early delivery than frustrated by a late one.
Yeah time is money, but it's still better to deliver a good product even if its late than a faulty one on time.

Del

"think of a number and double it principle"

Dennis Barnes was a kid who worked for me in the 90s when I was doing noise cancellation work.

He had a great, outside the box, mind but just couldn't ever give me reasonable time/money estimates for his projects.

Finally, that's what I told him.

"...think of a number and double it principle..."

My first job out of college was as an assistant project engineer.

I never had difficulties figuring out the material costs for a project, but determining the labor time and costs was always a problem.

Asked one of the engineers who had been around for some time, and who always seemed to bring his projects in on schedule and within estimated cost, how he figured out labor costs.

His answer?

"I figure out how long it would take me to do the job, then multiply that by 1.47. I double the result if the work is being done in a comfortable environment (e.g. outdoors in spring or fall) and cut it back by 25% if in an uncomfortable environment (outdoors in winter, or certain areas of the plant)".

"Where did you get 1.47 from?" I asked.

His reply: "I don't know, but it always works out."

I started using the same factors, and was never more than +/-5% off after that.

Unfortunately they only heard.

"I said, well if you take your pen and cross out where it says "weeks" at the bottom right and write in "days", that will look better"

And after your run behind schedule, they respond that's what you told them.

"Yeah time is money, but it's still better to deliver a good product even if its late than a faulty one on time."

Could someone forward this to Microsoft? And CC it to the entire AAA Videogames industry?

The classic I suffer from is the non existent field trail!
We do a software change for some muppet who insists he needs it, despite advice that there will be unforeseen consequences.
We give 'em a sample to test/evaluate.
It sits on their desk doing nothing for a month or so.
They then install a load hundreds of miles away.
... then we find out the unforeseen consequences

And... repeat.
Del