Should Some Country Change Their Language???

An NSA field operative told me this story long ago.

He had a piece of spook gear (rectangular box) in the field with a single toggle switch on one side that activated the device. No other markings, lights or anything, just the switch and an antenna.

The switch was marked either on, or no, depending on which way the box was turned.

Good.

That's so it could be operated only by persons who knew the secret code.

I don't see a problem as long as the languages are clearly labeled....Probably not a problem if the button is red....Probably should be covered in orientation of new employees...

Probably should be covered in orientation of new employees...

Yes - definitely should be, but if it is not....don't really want someone pausing for a second or two in an emergency.

Languages aren't clearly labeled - not labeled as to language at all - the reader has to determine that the "not-halt" is German, and not poor English. As I was not the designer of this particular control panel, I actually had a brief pause when I first saw it, wondering if this was some special E-stop where some device was to continue running when in E-stop - quickly decided that was insane. But....the momentary pause was there.

Well I guess you could google it, but in an emergency that could be rather stressful...

And that is why most exit directions are CAD generated drawings.

ARRET= Alright

I once had a company in the midwest that wrote the documentation for automated machining and assembly systems used by the automakers. We also taught live classes for operators and skilled tradesmen who had to be certified before operating the equipment.

The first eight hours of every class was dedicated to safety. That included a description of every E-stop switch and lockout and it's zone of influence. Some of the systems I've worked with were large enough to require dozens of E-stops per OSHA requirements so I can't imagine not having formal documentation and training on such equipment.

Hooker

On a missile silo bunker control console there are all kinds of switches and buttons. Near one of the latching buttons an operator had posted a reminder "Do Not Leave Depressed".

The next day, someone had added a second line: "I always leave depressed!"

Yeah - I got one like that. While working in the "oil patch, we needed signs for our explosive bunker. Our manager, who had a distinctive Texan drawl, told a general laborer to paint signs that said EXPLOSIVES - KEEP FIRE AWAY. What did we get:

EXPLOSIVES - KEEP FAR AWAY. Well...that was what it sounded like when the Texan said it.

I guess either one works!

One can only guess what would have been on a sign if it was to say "OIL DAILY".

I have to be careful here - I lived in the Great Country of Texas for a while, and have some friends there. I still say wa-er for wire when I'm tired.

Have you ever been tarred?

In the oil patch you were "tarred" every day, cause we worked hundred hour weeks.

You mean the awl patch.

TO ACTUATE DEPRESS LEVER.
Yo, Lever, you're fat, ugly and have no friends.
How depressing is THAT?

That reminds me of something funny, many years ago, in a dance hall near to where I lived, they had fans remotely switched for when it was too hot.

One was labelled "CIRCULATING FAN".

Underneath, someone had written "SHE'S A HONEY!"

Sadly, I never met her!!!

Emergency stop buttons are standardised and quite distinctive in colour, shape and visual markings making the text "Emergency Stop" less important as a visual identifier for the user, so there shouldn't be a problem with a little proper training ("oh by the way the funny text on the bottom is in German").

Besides, if all the other controls are also similarly marked in a foreign language on the bottom then it should also be an obvious indication to the user.

There in lies the problem - ONLY the E-stop has multiple languages on it. I have no doubt all will figure it out, but that first time you see it, it can slow your reactions down a bit, if you are English speaking. The German speaking person will not even notice the other words.

Why not just remove the label and replace it with an English one? Problem solved.

Too much like common sense perhaps?

Thats what I would have said!

In which language, though?

You're not reading the post - I explained I have to have both because it is a German company in an English speaking country. One assumes some German technicians could be in the plant at times.

I usually check my post carefully, but I am on very strong painkillers, and they make me woozy.....obviously!! Sorry about that!!!

Andy - go lie down for a while. You apologized for a correction I made to a post by another person. Those pain killers have you all dazed and confused. But that's alright - there are over 200,000,000 prescriptions written for pain killers here per year so about 50% of Americans are on pain killers now, and 45% don't even need them. (I am not implying you are taking them for anything but legitimate pain - just criticizing my fellow country men and women) The government here seems to think it is a recent problem - yeah!!! In 1974 one of the engineers where I worked was on Darvon and saved his daily dose and popped them all on Saturday night with a bottle of whiskey as a chaser. Often wondered if he made it to 40 years old.

I had just re-read my badly spelled post and took it on!! It was awful!!

But no matter.....thanks for your friendly post!!

What I meant was remove and replace the label on site (done by the customer if they think they may have problems with potentially confusing labeling), not alter the manufactures process to change to only English language labels before dispatch (which is not very practical).

Okay - the customer safety department no doubt changes a multitude of our labels once on site. Most have their own similar but different version of all the warning signs. I have always been surprised that the safety departments don't get a part of the specifications and spell out exactly what sign they want on the cabinet doors. The other departments sure do this. We've been told exactly what manufacturer's crimp on ferrule to use by some very particular customers.

Perhaps, instead of using the same sans-serif font for all languages, a distinct font could be used as a cue for the reader as to which language that part of the text is in:

• English, being the boring amalgam of several languages, gets boring sans-serif.
• German gets Blacktype, as the bold, heavy, angular characters are very easy to identify, and were seen on many posted signs around Germany during ... that unpleasant time in the early 1940's.
• French (another 'global' language) gets ... something that looks curly and flowing, much like the language sounds.
• Spanish (a frequent 'alternate language' used in North America) could use a strongly serifed font, to differentiate it from the English sans-serif.

Or, and here's a wild idea, we could harmonize the IEC and ISO color codes (if they aren't already) so the important controls can be identified by a person who is both illiterate and red-green colorblind. Once you get the standards, then we could even get kids exiting primary schooling with the understanding that a red mushroom button with a yellow background, or a red-and-yellow striped cord, is an emergency stop control. But then we need to insure that the machines designed for industry follow the codes without fail, so that the training will be accurate and useful.

GA! ...and I like your choices and the reasons therefor, as long as the fonts don't get too artistic. I absolutely hate signs where the text is so artistic that you have to study it a while to decipher the message.

The "multiple fonts" portion was the sarcastic lead-in to the REAL idea: harmonizing the machine design so that there is no NEED to read the text on the emergency stop buttons, that Cletus, the Slack-Jawed Yokel could wander in from the Hillbilly Woods and be able to wander around an active factory and be completely safe, because the standardized symbols and pictures make it easy to understand where the dangers to avoid are, and how to stop the dangers before he gets fingers sliced off.

It's a good idea.

Like so many good ideas that require international cooperation to implement, it'll never happen.

The "multiple fonts" portion was the sarcastic lead-in to the REAL idea: harmonizing the machine design so that there is no NEED to read the text on the emergency stop buttons, that Cletus, the Slack-Jawed Yokel could wander in from the Hillbilly Woods and be able to wander around an active factory and be completely safe, because the standardized symbols and pictures make it easy to understand where the dangers to avoid are, and how to stop the dangers before he gets fingers sliced off.

Re: (Title/Subject)

Wiki says:

"We ALL will be, sooner or later." Coming to a city near you soon.

See "Commandment_#3"

That would be Newspeak.

"Oy" ... (meaning: " ahh, yes "...)

I'd 'phorgotten' ... it is worse-than-originally-thought

(crime-speak-wise)

{self-OT'd, though...NOT!}

On the machinery that we built, we had to use universal labels, TUV inspectors say so. So, Emergency Stop? Red button with round yellow label and no writing what so ever. Some of the labels would leave you scratching your head as to what it meant.

• One could always start the movement by learning another language oneself. Others may follow, perhaps.
• At one time there was serious consideration being given to adopting German as the principal language of the United States of America.
• The USA and the UK are two nations divided by a common language.
• Welsh is spoken in parts of Argentina.
• The Belgians differentiate themselves from the French and the Dutch by speaking English.
• The Dutch speak English better than most English.
• There are parts of Wales where English is not spoken.
• There is a resurgence of Cornish in the English county of Cornwall.
• The Swiss have as many versions of German as there are German-speaking Cantons. Most residents would rather speak English than High German.
• There are at least 16 languages in use in South Africa.

Recommendations?

Esperanto?

Gesundheit!

There are quite a few words used in English and German that have opposite meanings. NOT being a commonly used one.

German "NOT" = "Emergency" in English.

German "GIFT" = "POISON" in English!! That lead to some bad misunderstanding after WW2!!!

I feel that the best idea is to use National flags as a background, especially for the German messages, which is just a simple Black, Red and Gold. Putting the button on the red part of course:-

Now that's an idea. We just have to convince the label makers to adopt this idea. I still see problems, with Canada next door to us, and they have 2 languages. Do we put a French flag for a French Canadian? Knowing them as I do, I have to say "absolument pas!!!"

"Not-ausgang" confused me for a while.

Me too in 1981 wtoohen I understood VERY little German.......never had schooling, so I say I spak "street German", it even makes sense in German!!

My father went to night school in the early 60s and learned German.....he already spoke good French (school) and really good Turkish (sent there in WW2 for 4.5 years by Churchill!). He worked for a time as a pensioner translating for the local courts.

I learnt French at school properly, between 1957 and 1963. Though its got very rusty....

I taught myself basic Portuguese from books in 1968 or 9. Enough to read well and converse badly! Also rusty!!

So far I’ve worked on German, French, Italian, Belgian and Rumanian machines, all the drawings have made more sense than American.

I worked for a French company in the UK for twelve years “Vous l’avez conçue, vous le tri!”

That's interesting. The company where I work is tied in with a French company, and we've adopted their style of drawings for electrical schematics on all process skid control panels we design, not just theirs. As you say - they make a bit more sense, once you get used their format. At first it seems like there is so little on each page and so many pages with arrows to show connections to circuits on other pages. Following the interconnections from page 5 to page 34 and then to page 18 and then to page 42 can be a bit tough at first, but one gets used to that, once one sees how the drawing format works - Heading and lead sheets/AC power/DC power/instruments/communication bus connections/DI cards/DO cards/AI cards/AO cards/ miscellaneous/physical layout/BOM/cable schedule. Our previous style would try to keep at least 2 of the mentioned sections on one drawing, but this ends up being easier once you have a template to work from. Our previous style was hard to get a template made to follow. The only problem we've encountered is that each section has an allotted number of pages available, almost always more than needed, so we end up skipping page numbers. Most customers like this style. However, we had one customer, with a very small panel, insist we include a blank page for all the skipped numbers. Took their drawing set from 32 pages to 70. Yeah - more blank pages than pages with drawings.

What is this? More America leads the world nonsense? If you don't like it, go home and stay home.

I went to the market the other day and bought a package of German spatten noodles.

The ingredients and cooking directions were in four languages.

German, French, English and Spanish.

I saw the movie" The Terminal - Tom Hanks.

A person could read labels on food packaging to " learn " another language.

A sign could be posted at a work site.

When little Johnny came home, mom would often ask him, " what did you learn in school today ?