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Jet Propelled Automobile

07/06/2016 9:10 AM

Has a small jet turbine engine ever been attached to the exhaust of an ICE automobile to give it extra power? It doesn't seem like it would be hard to do. The exhaust temperature after going through the turbine would be lower than the temperature without the turbine. Maybe, it could power a generator to help the engine.

PAPADOC

Aggieland, USA

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#1

Re: Jet propelled automobile

07/06/2016 9:14 AM

You do realize that a Turbo on an engine is one step from a jet engine... as far as having one on the exhaust there is a certain amount of back pressure that is required for the catalyzer to function, (as well as engine efficiency)

You should do a little bit more research on your own I'm sure will help.

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#2

Re: Jet propelled automobile

07/06/2016 9:53 AM

On the exhaust stroke, the engine pushes exhaust gases out the tailpipe. A turbine to extract energy here would likely require more energy from the engine. You would not gain much and would likely reduce the efficiency of the engine.

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#3

Re: Jet propelled automobile

07/06/2016 10:25 AM

To the Batmobile!

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Jet propelled automobile

07/06/2016 10:28 AM

I was thinking the same thing... Batman

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#5

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/06/2016 11:57 AM

Sounds like what a standard issue turbocharger does to me.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/06/2016 9:23 PM

...er, wait. What exactly has that turbocharger been doing to you?

Regardless of what the turbocharger may have told you, there is nothing 'standard' about it blowing anything other than an internal combustion engine. Don't feel any obligation to allowing the turbo to do anything to you, regardless of how 'standard' it may claim the behavior is.

Not to discourage you, if getting blown by a turbocompressor is your type of thing, just don't want to see it continue if you've been duped.

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#6

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/06/2016 12:24 PM

You have this is F1 racing engines now, I suspect it will filter down into passenger automobiles in the future as a fuel saving power adder...

..."In Formula One racing, where turbocharged 1.6-liter V6 engines are used in place of the naturally aspirated 2.4-liter V8s of recent years, those limits also prove to be opportunities.

Because an engine can stand only so much pressure in its cylinders, and because a turbocharger should spin only so fast to assure reliability, engine designers add a valve that can open to dump some of the exhaust gases before they reach the turbine section of the turbocharger. This device, called a waste gate, is a necessary sacrifice, throwing away some of the combustion heat in trade for engine longevity.

Grand prix cars in the Class of 2014 effectively double-dip by using the turbo shaft to also turn a motor-generator unit. The obvious benefit is generating electricity for the racecar’s hybrid drive system — good for a maximum of 160 horsepower under the new rules — but there’s more to it. The generator’s output can be dialed up as engine speed rises, and the increased load limits the turbocharger pressure, a more efficient solution than using a waste gate.

It gets better still: The unit can shift functions to become a motor, spinning the turbo in, say, a low-speed corner, to make sure boost pressure is instantly available when the driver floors the gas for the straightaway. The lag that plagued early turbo engines becomes a distant memory.

All this, and the cars will complete each race consuming about one-third less fuel than they did last year.

Automakers are not saying exactly when this technology may reach family cars, but the notion of racing improving the breed is not lost on participants like Mercedes-Benz, Renault, Ferrari (owned by Fiat) and, starting next season, Honda. Work is well underway to bring some of the principles to mass-production cars."...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/11/automobiles/new-twists-in-turning-hot-air-into-horsepower.html?_r=0

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/06/2016 12:51 PM
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#8
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Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/06/2016 1:12 PM
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#9

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/06/2016 4:46 PM

Put on a turbocharger first, or supercharger if not already equipped. Then install a waste heat exchanger after the catalytic converter, and have your little jet with its own compressor. True that the top end of the compressed air could be hotter than the exhaust you want to recover heat from, but you could experiment with an intercooled staged compressor. You might have to introduce a small incremental fuel burn to get anything more than about 10% power output over the power required of the turbine to compress its own air.

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#11

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/07/2016 6:11 AM

OK, so what is this - another something-for-nothing machine? A last-ditch attempt to squeeze the last drop of go out of the last drop of oil?

It really is about time that 'gasoline technology for personal transportation' were superseded by something else. And it shouldn't be a surprise by now that the rest of the world is working on it. 'Bye-bye dinofuel' is closer by the day.

These sorts of posts are really amusing.

<unsubscribes>

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#12

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/07/2016 7:46 AM

a jet is like any other engine, it requires fuel and air, like an ICE in your car it compresses air to make a denser charge. an efficient ICE will have already burned up the majority of oxygen, not much worth compressing is left for the jet so it would operate like a jogger holding a paper bag over their mouth as they attempted to run, Lame idea

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#13

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/07/2016 11:11 AM

Back in the day, we rodders impressed the ''other guys'' by installing spark plugs on the exhaust of rear engine vehicles (VW) and re-jiggering a timing strobe light on one of the engine plugs to feed the exhaust-mounted plug instead of the strobing light. After lean/rich fine tuning and some hellacious backfires, we managed to get some interesting glow at the exhaust, while not moving. The whole rig was very sensitive to the aerodynamics of the moving vehicle. Above about 10 mph, the flame would snuff, but pulling away from an intersection on a calm evening was impressive. Even the girls thought it was cool.

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#14

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/07/2016 2:18 PM

Like this??

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/07/2016 3:43 PM

Back to the Future...and it would definitely turn heads in the hood, even today. I recall seeing something like this years ago with a JATO on each side of a roof outrigger mounted on a floating VW. It was down to almost the top of the wheels; I think they crossed the Channel with it or some such thing.

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#20
In reply to #14

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/13/2016 8:17 PM

Hmmmm, there may be merits I hadn't considered. Looks like something worth considering, if only to discourage tailgaters.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/14/2016 2:22 PM

Yes, the afterburner effect could wreck havoc on a decent factory paint job. Mostly, one does not want that in a power turbine for spinning tires. One wants torque, as having this come out as thrust requires too much wasted heat.

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#16

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/07/2016 6:06 PM

Yes. It was done in 1952-8 (approximately) by the UK Rover car company.

I was a young delivery driver at the time for new Rover cars (auto. dealer.)

The "jet" car passed me (a P4) on the nearby main road with a noticeable whine.
Not too loud, but interestingly different.

Not privy to the real reasons, it was cancelled, according to the gossip, due to
not being easily variable in speed. It had plenty of power, (150 ish mph!) but..
then had to be braked quite hard to slow down/stop. etc. (a bit too soon I guess)

More details can be found here. http://www.rover.org.nz/pages/jet/jet5.htm

Happy days...

jt.

An old Marine Pilot sat down at the Starbucks, still wearing his old USMC flight suit and leather jacket and ordered a cup of coffee.
As he sat sipping his coffee, a young woman sat down next to him. She turned to the pilot and asked, `Are you a real pilot?'
He replied, 'Well, I've spent my whole life flying planes, first Stearmans, then the early Grummans.... flew a Wildcat and Corsair in WWII, and later in the Korean conflict, Banshees and Cougars. I've taught more than 260 people to fly and given rides to hundreds, so I guess I am a pilot, and you, what are you?
She said, 'I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about naked women.
As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about naked women.
When I shower, I think about naked women. When I watch TV, I think about naked women.
It seems everything makes me think of naked women.'
The two sat sipping in silence.
A little while later, a young man sat down on the other side of the old pilot and asked: "are you a real pilot?"

He replied, 'I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian.'

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/08/2016 10:20 AM

A bit confusing. We either have a turbo-thruster (jet) or turbo-prop format, the former of which is the VW in the picture and the later of which was what Chrysler experimented with in the 1950's and '60's with a drive train in place of a prop and what Andy Granatelli tried in an Indy 500, looking very good for a win until a burned out bearing took him down.

I have pondered a syn-fuel based on a hydrogen ''economy'' powering small gas turbine hydraulic server systems to each vehicle wheel with a cooling loop for the hydraulic fluid pre-heating the fuel for cold climate operation. The power to weight ratio of the turbine/reduction gear/hydraulic system should be significantly greater than that of ICE, hybrid, all-electric, etc. variants currently on the market or horizon. And sourcing the hydrogen from Solar Eagle should make the whole thing very climate friendly.

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#18

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/09/2016 10:51 AM

Without substantial improvements in battery design weight and power, I think
Hydrogen using fuel cells is the way forward. (pun )

Hydrogen can be made almost for "nothing" using solar/wind and vehicles can be
re-fueled quickly and easily. Can the use of jet/turbo be as controlled? I do not know.

jt.

A Sunday School teacher of pre-schoolers was concerned that his students might be a little
confused about Jesus Christ because of the Christmas season emphasis on His birth.
He wanted to make sure they understood that the birth of Jesus occurred a long time
ago, that He grew up, etc. So he asked his class, "Where is Jesus today ?"

Johnny raised his hand and said, "He's in heaven."

Mary was called on and answered, "He's in my heart." and Robert,
waving his hand furiously, blurted out, "I know! I know! He's in our bathroom!!!"

Teacher gathered his wits and asked Robert how he knew this, and Robert said, "Well.....
every morning my father gets up, bangs on the bathroom door, and yells
'Jesus Christ, are you still in there?'!

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/09/2016 12:56 PM

I do not know, either. Getting the energy content of H2, or some syn-fuel variant thereof, from on-board storage to the wheels can take many paths. My hydraulic lash-up is one of many and may not be the best. But whatever emerges as the next gen of highway propulsion for the masses is more likely to be beyond a pure battery/capacitor charge storage configuration. The hydrogen economy is a compelling candidate with an efficiency-enhancing (compared to differentials, limited slip, etc.) system of near instantaneously variable energy allocation to each wheel.

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#22

Re: Jet Propelled Automobile

07/15/2016 3:04 PM

"Hydrogen can be made almost for "nothing" using solar/wind and vehicles can be
re-fueled quickly and easily."

Really? Then we have many incredibly foolish and stupid people still working on the solution to our energy problems.

I like biofuels; Crude oil and all the fuel products made from it. And biomass; Coal, and all the fuel products made from it. Yup. both of those are biofuels. That oil and coal didn't come from just rock.

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