Time Travel Debunked

He is optimistic that in the next few years LIGO will verify or falsify his theory.

Never before have I been so excited about the possibility of two black holes colliding together.

Come on Santa, all the physics community wants this Christmas are two colliding black holes in LIGO range.

Already been recorded at one or both USA LIGO facilities.

But not TOO close.

"If I could save time in a bottle.

If I could make days last forever.

If words could make wishes come true."

James Joseph "Jim" Croce January 10, 1943 – September 20, 1973

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I don't have time to worry about this.

One of many favorite tunes. Thanks for adding that in.

So then we just need ways to jump from one frame of reference to another relativistic one. Right? I expect the jump would not gain much time, as far as a space ship jumping backwards by centuries, or something like that.

If the future does not exist, then how did I have a series of dreams that came true. it was always the same dream, accompanied by intense feelings of deja vu. I had it maybe once a year for several years. Finally I found myself in the situation I was dreaming about, with very strong deja vu, and I knew exactly what would happen for about 30 seconds. I never had the dream again after that.

Saying that the expansion of the universe creates time is not the same thing as saying that the future does not exist. Maybe "this moment" is special the way that the current location of the head of a DVD reader is special. The DVD remains unchanged regardless of how fast it spins or where the head is located, but what the audience is aware of changes "dramatically", or perhaps "theatrically."

Deja vu isn't what it used to be.

Yeah, and neither are dreams.

But then, neither is the universe. Used to be all cute and pointlike (or maybe static and Newtonian). Now look at it!

Your universe so fat it takes its whole lifetime to see from one side to the other!

"...If the future does not exist, then how did I have a series of dreams that came true.... .... Finally I found myself in the situation I was dreaming about... ...and I knew exactly what would happen for about 30 seconds. I never had the dream again after that...."

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Very poor rationale on this one. The ability to predict an observation of a high probability events in the future or even predict an observation at an unspecified time of a low probability event, isn't proof of the future already existing.

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Hypothetical:

Your bitch goes into heat. There are reproductively intact males that are not always contained. You know she is good at finding a way out of the fence when strongly motivated. Chances are high for a litter of questionable genetic to result if she gets out.

You have a dream about the unfriendly half Mexican hairless chihuahua, third basset, a sixth monotreme (dubious, but just look) siring a litter, nay, a dump of regrettable offspring with your bitch after she escapes her containment.

Motivated to avoid the outcome 'seen' in your dream, you put some work into making the enclosure more secure. Your effort pays off in the avoidance of a litter.

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Questions...

Should you be charged or feel any guilt for animal creulty for robbing the lives puppies you 'saw' in the future in your dream?

If no charges or guilt, is the future real enough that the lives you robbed from the future puppies play some meaningful part in your decision whether or not to secure the fence?

Nothing like that. If someone tells you they have a picture of a woman, and you dream about a picture of a woman, that is as you describe. But if they show you the picture and it is identical to the picture in your dream, with the same woman, same clothes, same pose, same background, then that is what I am describing.

It's not like I had millions of dreams, and then one happened to resemble the situation I happened to be in. It was a single dream, that I had multiple times with increasingly intense feelings of deja vu, and then I was in that exact situation, and the deja vu was even more intense. As I said, I knew exactly what was going to happen for about 30 seconds, and it all played out exactly like that.

Since then I have not had any recurring dreams at all.

One problem with being shown a picture after dreaming of a woman is that your brain can 'self-edit' your memories, so at firt glance, you cannot be sure if the picture matches your dream, or if the picture, being 'close enough,' OVERWRITES your dream memory by filling in the blanks you did not know were there.

It's a common practice in live Theatre to only hint at the details, providing enough clues that each audience member fills in the blanks themself. One of the lighting tricks used when going to a 'dark'/'night' scene is to start scene with the stage lites really low, where you can only see the silhouettes of the actors against the backdrop, and then to slowly bring up the blue lights. The audience does not realize what is going on, and assumes it's their eyes adjusting to the dark. Or the 'fine artwork' the actors are fawning over on stage is just a crude semi-abstact painted onto the canvass fly, even the 'exquisitely guilded frame' is just a crude painting. just enough detail that the audience, seated at a distance, cannot see it clearly, but their mind fills in for the information that isn't even there.

I could not recognize the face of the woman in my dreams, as my attentions were directed to other assets.

Parallel universe theory also covers this potential observed phenomena.

As with many things even if this experience is say scientifically proven true this actually doesn't prove the future already exists.

Our understanding of time is still too limited for us to cling to concepts as "set-in-stone" like linear time or a future timeline (be it constantly changing or branching). I have a feeling the truth is far more bizarre and non linear than we can yet imagine.

I also had a series of recurring dreams.

One night,I would dream about wigwams,the next night I would dream about teepees.

One night wigwams,the next night, teepees.

It was driving me nuts.

I finally consulted a doctor about it.

He said your problem is simple:

You are too tense.

Thank you for that.

A bald American indian wearing a toupee was struck by lightning - that made his wigwam.

It is easy to identify a Bald Eagle...He will have a comb-over.

I can back this sort of claim. My Father and my Grandmother both told of a night where, as a child, he awoke from a nightmare where a dirigible went down in flames. That was in the early AM of May the 6th 1937. Care to guess what happened at 7:25AM that day? Makes you think, doesn't it?

Yes. I discovered early in my scientific career that the universe is part of a much larger reality than we are aware of. Unfortunately, the search for scientific knowledge is often forcibly constrained to the bits that radical materialists can understand.

Well, it is a simple fact that anything that cannot be observed or measured cannot be described scientifically, and has to be considered 'supernatural;" 'beyond or outside nature.'

It has also been found that with all repeatable experiments, when the assumption is made that no supernatural elements or agents will/can affect the outcome, the math and the experiment come out predictably. And so while Science has no answer for the question "Is the Flying Spaghetti Monster real or fiction,' since that question is 'outside of science,' what Science can determine is "Based on the body of experiments, the FSM, if real, either cannot affect experiments in the Natural World, or it chooses not to interfere." That statement lists three possibilities:

• The FSM does not exist.
• The FSM exists, but cannot interact with the Natural World in any way, and effectively does not exist in any way that has meaning to us.
• The FSM exists, can affect the natural World, but chooses not to for reasons only known and knowable to itself.

I also wish to apologize to any Pastafarians I may have offended with my example. If I have transgressed against the FSM, may He slap me across the face with His Noodly Appendage.

(...waits for the slap, there's no sense in setting up test conditions for an experiment if one is not going to RUN the experiment...)

Apparently the FSM (flying spaghetti monster) has encountered strange entanglement at a distance, and cannot respond directly to the inquiry.

I so hate it when my spaghetti gets all entangled.

If we can't even find Bigfoot once and for all (or Yeti), how do we know where to look for FSM? I bet the Blues Brothers could find him.

I agree that anything that cannot be observed or measured cannot be investigated, but I would call those things "imaginary", not "supernatural". A supernatural event is something that is really observed, but is merely outside the realm of what current science feels comfortable with.

It would be not only quite feasible to do studies of predictive dreams, but it is already being done. I heard about this online dream archive a couple of years ago. (I couldn't find it today, but I'll try again.) Basically it collects dreams every day and tries to correlate them with current events, especially calamities.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that "with all repeatable experiments, when the assumption is made that no supernatural elements or agents will/can affect the outcome, the math and the experiment come out predictably." That sounds more like an assumption than an observation.

I will would agree that this happens some of the time, but when it doesn't, the experimenter just does it over and doesn't even bother about how the incorrect one happened. Actually considering how often experiments fail, I'm not even sure the experiments come out predictably even a tenth of the time, even without "supernatural" phenomena.

[[ I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that "with all repeatable experiments, when the assumption is made that no supernatural elements or agents will/can affect the outcome, the math and the experiment come out predictably." That sounds more like an assumption than an observation. ]]

Take a look at any equation that describes a physical phenomena, look at a hundred, a thousand, however many you want to be sure you're data set is sufficiently large. Show me the variable that represents "the influence of angels, demons, or other supernatural beings." It's not there? And yet the equation accurately describes the physical phenomena to as many decimal places as we need? That would indicate that "the influence of angels, etc." is NOT a factor in any of those equations. Granted that does not guarantee that it is not a factor in the equations that were outside the sample set, but there are times when one can extrapolate from a large data set and make predictions. There is no proof that the Sun will rise tomorrow morning, however, based on the data set we have available, the Sun has risen every morning for the whole 6000+ years of recorded history, so it becomes a 'safe' prediction that the Sun will rise tomorrow morning as well.

Oh, of course. Now I see what you mean. I have complete faith in the investigation of physical phenomena and how math represents them, and yes, there is no need for variables for supernatural beings. An architect knows all the factors that have to go into designing buildings, and there is no need to account for ghosts. And yet it seems that ghosts do inhabit buildings. Similarly architects don't account for arsonists, riots, highways being built through a property, bankruptcies, plane crashes, etc. Yet those things exist. I think supernatural events exist like those events, as something unpredictable that a conscious entity does, not like a predictable force of nature that you can incorporate into an equation.

Take the laws of thermodynamics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It is a great principle that has stood the test of centuries. And yet it is impossible to say that no energy has ever been created or destroyed, because maybe when it some supernatural entity is doing that, it does it when nobody is measuring the energy.

Take my dream. Where did the energy come from that stimulated the neurons in my brain to have those images from the future?

What about moving energy in/out of our space-time into or from another membrane?

Some conjecture has been raised about that in recent years, with astronomers/physicists suggesting that the energy of the cosmos "ether" is:

10¹³¹ J/cm³. That surely is astronomical enough that if a few hundred Joules crossed over we would be the only ones to notice. To tap into that on a routine basis would solve all of mankind's energy requirements forever.

Great question. In that case I expect it would not be created or destroyed.

I think I would be extremely careful about tapping into it though, just as I would be extremely careful about tapping into the energy of nuclear fission or fusion. As I understand it you are as likely to create a black hole as a place to plug in your TV.

"...the incorrect one." I presume you refer to some measurement that is a statistically rejected value based on the norm and the standard deviation and Student's t.

Let's not go hand-picking data as though it were strawberries on a hillside.

I was thinking more about a scientist developing his research protocol, and how many times it fails before he or she gets it right. After the protocol is developed and working properly, then it is possible to use statistics to reject outliers.

Yes, dropping the crucible is not allowed. Spilling the liquid sample is also not allowed.

The list of chemical analytical science epic fails goes on and on. It is a wonder we ever got anything settled. LOL

That would make a great book.

Somehow getting things settled always seems to be temporary.

Unfortunate for the radial materialists. Higher knowledge and basic research will eventually pay off in many more ways than the immediate. On the other hand, science owes much more to engineering than does engineering to science.

The advancement of scientific knowledge is married to advancement of engineering first, because it is always necessity that gestates new science, and is the mother of invention. If there were no need, we would not be typing this on a computer, but would grunt and motion to one another with our stone implements.

Others argue for returning to the Stone Age, still others for sending our opponents back to the stone age, but I say we never look back, keep marching forward, keep improving all things until the end of time.

"Unfortunate for the radial materialists. Higher knowledge and basic research will eventually pay off in many more ways than the immediate. On the other hand, science owes much more to engineering than does engineering to science."

I'd say the relationship is closer to equal, since each gives birth to the theories/technologies the other needs to advance. The fact that Engineering provides more concrete things for the public to see and touch than Science does tends to skew public perception, just as the audience at a play appreciate the cast on the stage more than the crew working behind the curtains, but both have an equal responsibility in bringing the play to life.

Historically, engineering was "light years" ahead of the science of the times. Hell, enthalpy, entropy, and all the rest was nothing in the mind of science until Count Rumford (the scoundrel that he was) tested boring a cannon barrel with a blunted bore, with the cannon barrel resting in a volume of water. Then there was Fulton's steam engine river boat.

So tell me more about this science that is so far ahead of the engineers? The Wright Brothers? Engineers.

OK, maybe Einstein. But even for him, there had to be Galileo (engineered a better telescope), and many others. Louis Pasteur? Antonie Philips van Leeuwenhoek and the hand crafted microscope came first. So on it goes.

Please do name one time where the science ran way ahead of the engineering.

Some of use need to come to the realization that as far as what is out there to know, we are not a great deal better off than a room full of monkeys with typewriters.

Atoms from the ancient greeks... I'd call that science.

What is the sound of one hand clapping. Science & Engineering are inectricably linked. But there are differences. When a scientist makes an error, he erases the blackboard. When an engineer makes an error people can die or property can be destroyed. Engineering is not for those who lack confidence.

Galileo HIMSELF is an example of the science-feeding-engineering-feeding-science cycle.

Galileo made scientific observations of the heavens, determined that the technology was not up to the level he needed, so he engineered the new technology to continue his research, which led him to improve his technology even further to get more accurate views. He wore two hats, being both Scientist and Engineer, swapping hats as the need arose.

Without Astronomy reaching the point where its needs exceeded what Telescopes could offer, there would have been no need to advance the telescope. Remove Engineering and Science stagnates, remove Science and Engineering stagnates.

No one (not even me) was saying that science is irrelevant. Far from it. Maybe the science is starting to lead engineering in this era. In the past, it was not necessarily so.

I meant radical materialists. Sorry.

That is how I read your post.

I'm sorry if I offended any radial materialists.

I finally got it. Radial vs. radical. Sorry for my bad spelling, my eyesight not good this morning or last week either.

Don't sweat it, we all take our TURN at looking foolish here.

Some of us are just more well-ROUNDed fools and take to it more (T)READily.

We all know we can trust you when the RUBBER meets the ROAD.

(These puns are not coming easily today, maybe I'm just washed up at this and need to reTIRE.)

Here are some images for the radial illusionists, to contrast with the radial materialists.

http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/rotating-snakes-illusion

http://mediamilitia.com/radial-pack-50-elements-vectors-brushes/

Scientific American Mind had a special issue about illusions recently. Mind bending.

radial illusionists trick everyone around them.

radial materialists grab everything in arm's reach.

I there is 10¹³¹ J/cm³ (in the ether of space) and the electron radius is

2.8179403227 x 10^-13 cm,

so that electron volume is supposedly limited to a box of its radius,

2.23766657 x 10^-38 cm³, and say this was the same box of a localized (trapped) proton, there could still be a lot of energy pulled into that volume, namely

2.2376666 x 10⁹⁴ J.

The electron capture energy for a proton to become a neutron is nowhere near this energy, so it is possible by Heisenberg's principle, the cosmic energy density, and other known requirements of physics.

Once a cold neutron is formed, it can be absorbed by virtually any nucleus that is not already at the Beta drip line. (At least I think the Beta drip line is where the nuclei are already overloaded with neutrons.)

This has to do with at least one operating theory of obtaining the "impossible": conversion of trapped protons eventually to helium-4 by net emission of Beta and energy.

“The only example I could come up with is black hole evaporation, and in that case it turns out to be censored. So I couldn’t come up with any way to reverse time, and my basic conclusion is that time travel is not possible,” he says.

"The Vulcan Science Academy has determined that time-travel is impossible" -- T'Pol, Star Trek: Enterprise (said multiple times)

"I may have to reconsider the position of the Vulcan Science Academy" -- T'Pol, Star Trek: Enterprise (emerging from a cargo hold after resolving a 'temporal cold war' crisis in 2004 Detroit)

You also have to realize the irony inherent in the situation, unknown to T'Pol, but well known to Trek fans, since even from the first broadcast series, there was time travel (two way) via slingshot routes charted around stars. Star Trek: Voyager even had Federation members from after Voyager's time mentioning a 'Temporal Prime Directive' ("Don't screw with Pre-time-travel cultures." as a complement to the original Prime Directive "Don't screw with pre-warp cultures.")

Star Trek Enterprise was written and broadcast after Voyager, but it was a prequel to the Original Series; the audience knew how the future of the Federation was going to turn out (until the 'temporal cold war' storyline showed up in the first episode to make us wonder if the future we remembered was the future that was going to be), and we even accepted that the T'Pol struggling with emotions regarding Trip(?) was the same T'Pol that refereed Spock's death match with Kirk. So all the smug Vulcan statements about events and physics that we the audience knew were to be proven false made them seem that much more 'pompous' and 'condescending.' We weren't supposed to LIKE the Vulcans and their attitude of "humanity discovered warp drive, so they are no longer a 'pre-warp' culture, but we don't want them running around, getting buddy footprints all over our nice, logical domain, so we'll make all sorts of convoluted excuses to keep them within their own heliosphere for a few hundred thousand years, until they either 'grow up' and start acting like Vulcans, or wipe themselves out. Either outcome works for us."

You're thinking of T'Pau from Amok Time (TOS). Who we were introduced to as a rebel leader on Vulcan with T'Pol's mother.

I never watched much ST:Enterprise, the first season really dragged, and that "country gal leaving the mountains to make it in the big city" opening theme didn't help. I lost interest before the re-tooling, although making it more militarized didn't seem like the right approach to me.

I had thought that "T'Pol" and "T'Pau" were the same name, just with a linguistic shift that swallowed the L. Considering T'Pau's accent in Amok Time, it would seem that the two words would sound the same coming from her venerable lips. Besides, we know Vulcans are a long-lived species, it didn't seem out of place for a Vulcan elder to have met both Kirk and Archer.

At least Hitler never made it to outer space, much less to the event horizon to travel back in time and become a gentle, kind farmer with no political aspirations. Oh wait, he went forward in time in Argentina like that.

Germany thought BIG during that time. Research over the years has indicated German scientists had ICBM, Stealth jet and even a space station design on the boards.

Fortunately these were not realised until after the war ended.

It dragged, picked up greatly in the middle but petered out in the final episode. However it did give us the mirror universe double episode In a Mirror, Darkly, which is a must see episode for any Star Trek fan in my opinion.

Here are two apparently contradictory paragraphs in this Wikipedia article:

"Wormholes connect two points in spacetime, which means that they would in principle allow travel in time, as well as in space. In 1988, Morris, Thorne and Yurtsever worked out explicitly how to convert a wormhole traversing space into one traversing time.^[3] However, according to general relativity, it would not be possible to use a wormhole to travel back to a time earlier than when the wormhole was first converted into a time machine by accelerating one of its two mouths.^[21]"

^"The theory of general relativity predicts that if traversable wormholes exist, they can also alter the speed of time. They could allow time travel.^[3] This would be accomplished by accelerating one end of the wormhole to a high velocity relative to the other, and then sometime later bringing it back; relativistic time dilation would result in the accelerated wormhole mouth aging less than the stationary one as seen by an external observer, similar to what is seen in the twin paradox. However, time connects differently through the wormhole than outside it, so that synchronized clocks at each mouth will remain synchronized to someone traveling through the wormhole itself, no matter how the mouths move around.^[27] This means that anything which entered the accelerated wormhole mouth would exit the stationary one at a point in time prior to its entry."

-S

That makes no sense. The ends of the wormhole are not entities that can be moved, they are locations in spacetime. Bind the location to a bulkhead/door in a relativistic rocket ship and you have created a window into the cabin that is attached to the 'fixed' end.

Let's suppose our astronaut, at lunchtime goes to the fridge and realizes he left the stove on! Since he's been travelling close to 'c' his time will have dilated. He could walk through the portal, to turn off the gas, but it's likely he'll return to a long burned down house, and a meadow of well developed weeds.

The other possibility is the firemen show up to his burning home, extinguish the blaze and notice he left his lunch in the fridge. They toss the lunch through the portal, and because of the time dilation he hears his lunch bag fall to the floor almost the same *instant* he hit the warp-drive button the morning he departed!

There is very little in relativity that makes sense to the human mind. It is what it is. What is interesting in that article is how many types of hypothetical wormholes there are.

What if the two ends of the same worm hole connected to form a worm toroid?

The past and future would continuously feed back upon one another.

What would happen to a traveler within the confines of the toroid?

Would the toroid continue to expand,getting larger and larger,sucking in all time and

space,or would it get smaller,shrinking into itself,until it formed a singularity,and then become unstable,and create another "Big Bang" or perhaps a vibrating string?

Would the toroid shape prevent Hawking Radiation from escaping?

What about the local area in the center of the torroid,what kind of crazy effects would there be in that area?

I asked my dog about time,and he said it was an illusion,same as Einstein once said.

That is why dogs don't wear watches.

Smart dog!

Some of your posts are food for thought, and others I just laugh. This time I'm going in circles. ℘∂

But dogs do know when I coming home with Fuddrucker's!

¿do Geese see God?

???

It's a palindrome. Otherwize?

Have pun. Will travel.

Wire Palindrome

San Francisco

"Brought to you by: Kent cigarettes, with the charcoal-micronite filter."

Yes they do, and they see Him while flying backwards also, a conundrum wrapped in a palindrome. Or to put it another way, it is a puzzle appearing in Kodachrome.

My dog's grandfather died of stress:

He was a watchdog,guarding a clock shop.

He was over matched from the start,but the thing that really got to him is all of the gongs struck at the same time.

(Don't get me started!)

My granddad was a clock-maker; I learned the trade from him 60+ years ago and after trying to sleep at his house where the shop was, I can truly sympathize with your grandfather's dog about the gongs.

That's exactly why the Flux Capacitor(tm) is shaped the way it is.

"Flux Capacitor" is a trademark of Doc Brown Industries Ltd.

(c) 1955, 1985, 2015, 1855, et. al.

"What if the two ends of the same worm hole connected to form a worm toroid?"

If wormholes are possible in this universe, and it is possible to get the two ends to be in different 'times,' there is a theory that 'closed timelike curves' such as your worm toroid would be impossible.

Open timelike curves would be possible, If we send one end of a wormhole at relativistic velocities to Alpha centauri, the centauri end would arrive in, let's say three years, while due to time dialation, we can look through the wormhole and see it at centauri after a year. We can now travel between Earth +0yrs and Centauri +2years and back again, but we cannot create a closed timelike curve, because information taking the 'slow path' of light speed takes 4 years.

If we cot to centauri, and then send another wormhole back to earth, that wormhole would connect between centauri +2yr and Earth +4yr Meaning now we have a direct link between earth +0yr and earth +4yr. This is a closed timelike curve, which some theoris state would be 'censored' much like a singularity is. In essence, the 'return wormhole would fail to complete the link, or would collapse immediatly, or there would be a big boom.

This expert says it is a "big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff." Sounds good until we do figure it out.

I think he's onto something.

No, he was onto something, then the warpy, timy wimy thing make him go back in time, and now he is yet to be onto something.

Yes - it almost sounds as though that simplified explanation could be applied to the point of the OP.

I know for a fact time travel (into the past exists! My wife speaks me back into the Stone Age on a regular basis.

AND you've made it back! I thought the old guy you went to college did that..

I built a vermiculture box out back to study worm holes and their effect on the future. It's not theory!

Making it back from the stone age, is simply a matter or rebound/recoil from whatever backstop I bounce off of in the past. Frankly, the whiplash of it all has me reeling.

I went to Japan and fell asleep on a merry go round.

I awoke back in the States.

I had become disoriented.