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Anonymous Poster #1

Voltage Drop On Transformer When A/C Turns On

01/03/2017 10:30 PM

i have a 24000btu A/C hard wired to a 10000W rated step up(110v to 220v) transformer but has a voltage drop from 240V to 120V when turned on but fails to run. 30 amp breaker that doesnt go off with 6mm2 cable with a short piece of 4mm2 cable joined to the A/C.

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#1

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/03/2017 10:53 PM

Depending upon the age, type, and efficiency of your A/C, it draws 12 to 20 Amps while running, unfortunately it can draw up to 10 times that when it starts. It's a highly inductive load during this period and it is overloading your transformer such that the A/C only receives half the required voltage. The result is that the compressor trips on its internal thermal overload faster than the breaker can trip.

You might be able to get around this problem by getting a "low-voltage starting kit" from the manufacturer, otherwise you're going to need a bigger transformer, but that will then transfer the problem to the 30A circuit feeding it since 20 Amps on the 220V side requires 40 Amps on the 120 V side.

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#19
In reply to #1

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/05/2017 9:00 AM

Who rates a transformer in watts? 10kVA out to be plenty big enough to start a 2.4kVA load of any type. Maybe it is not a real transformer, or something else is wrong...

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#2

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/03/2017 11:07 PM

Sounds like your start/run capacitor has failed and unit is drawing LRA and going off on overload.....The A/C unit may have additional problems that have caused undue stress on the compressor, such as low freon, failing fan motor etc....How old is the A/C unit?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/03/2017 11:12 PM

i got the A/C unit from someone else so the age is unknown to me. The unit was tested at the person's home and was working fine but after installation on my home i ran into the problem.

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#4
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Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 1:22 AM

The manufacturer's date code is usually in the serial number on the compressor and/or on the unit itself....In any case you need a repairman to diagnose the problem...You might have a problem with the quality or quantity of your power to the unit, or it could be in the A/C unit itself...

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#14
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Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 12:16 PM

You need an ammeter to check the amp draw of the compressor....on start-up the compressor should momentarily spike to near FLA(full load amps) and settle near RLA(running load amps), on a 2 ton LRA should be around 80-90 amps and RLA should be around 10-12 amps...this should be marked on the compressor tag...On start-up if the compressor will not start, and the wiring is intact, it will draw FLA for 3-5 seconds before going off on overload, this is an internal protective device...If this is the case then you should check any capacitors with a capacitor tester....If the capacitor tests good, then the compressor is seized and must be replaced....Another possibility is that one of the wires has burnt off the start winding of the compressor, so you should pull the cover off the compressor terminal, with power off of course, and inspect the connections for any damage....

The S(start) R(run) C(common) positions will be marked possibly on the cover or at the terminals....

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 1:15 PM

Generally speaking you can allow a 30% deficit from LRA in determining required watts for start-up....If the LRA is 90 then you would have a 60 X 240 = 14400 watt requirement...

Here is a 2 ton scroll compressor with 56 LRA...that would be 38 X 240 = 9120

The date can be determined by the serial number....

07F represents 2007 and F= June

The addition of a start capacitor can aid in starting the compressor....

http://inspectapedia.com/electric/Starting_Capacitors.php

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#5

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 2:39 AM

Does the voltage on the primary of the transformer change during attempted startup?

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#7
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Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 6:14 AM

GA - the forum doesn't know where the bottleneck is: it could be the incoming supply.

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#6

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 4:20 AM

It seems to me the cable from the source[service] up to transformer is too small [6 mm^2 copper]if the distance is 2*100 m[back and forth -at least].You need at least 16 mm^2 copper.

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#12
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Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 9:53 AM

<...need at least 16 mm^2...>

The protocol for cable sizing in BS7671 takes into account a range of factors, including ambient temperature and style of installation, which cannot be summarised in a simple statement. The only way to size the cable correctly is to apply the protocol in the standard. Which is why countries have electrical standards covering such things, and have qualified Electricians carry them out...

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#20
In reply to #6

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/05/2017 9:58 AM

I took the A/C similar data from Earthlinked Technology PSD Geothermal Heating and Cooling System page 14:

24000 btu/h 230 V single phase 14.6 FLA 73 LRA pf[at start 0.3[ appreciated!]

Transformer 10 kVA 110/220 V 4% [as per ANSI 37.010].

The voltage at start at motor terminals will be 149 V [instead of minimum 207].

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#8

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 6:16 AM

<...with 6mm2 cable with a short piece of 4mm2 cable joined to the A/C...>

Such a thing falls outside British Standard 7671.

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#9
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Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 8:49 AM

You are right, I am afraid. However, my A/C is 4 kW /3*400 V 50 Hz and from service panel switch to compressor a 10 m 4*4 mm^2 is o.k. From service panel up to main panel 4*4 mm^2 [20 m].From main panel up to transformer 4*25 mm^2 [100-120 m]. It could be spirit of BS7671. Is not it?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 9:20 AM

Change of conductor size downwards cannot take place without introducing a further protection device at the node where the change takes place, according to BS7671, so as to protect the downstream cable. Otherwise, as smaller cables have a larger resistance-per-unit-length, such features can constitute bottlenecks to power flow in inadequately-protected systems; they are things of great interest to fire insurance investigators and, particularly, to Loss Adjusters given an incidental loss involving a less-than-standard installation.

It sounds as though the whole installation requires re-assessment and re-design. As it cannot be seen from here, consulting a qualified local Electrician is the best way forwards. The act of making sure this individual's out-coming documentation is complete and correctly filed will ensure maintenance of popularity with the building's fire insurance company.

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#11
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Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 9:45 AM

Agreed!

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: voltage drop on transformer when A/C turns on

01/04/2017 9:54 AM

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#15

Re: Voltage Drop On Transformer When A/C Turns On

01/04/2017 12:37 PM

The first problem I see is you are trying to run a 24 KBTU 240 VAC powered A/C unit off of a stepped up 120 VAC power source so whatever the units running amp rating is needs to be multiplied by 2 plus the transformers losses added in as well which in my books would put its likely 120 volt input circuit current at 20+ amps with a likely 100+ on start up which would be way beyond the working capacity of your present 6 mm wire unless its a very short run for the main power source in your house.

If the unit came with 4 mm wire for its power cord that would imply it draws a pretty high startup current and likely has a fair running current as well.

The fact you have it on a 30 amp breaker and despite the apparent large voltage drop at the units input it doesn't trip in the first few seconds suggests you have a substantial amount of line resistance in play.

If it was me I would switch the 30 amp 120 volt line over to a double fed 20 amp 240 volt circuit at the main breaker panel and run the A/C unit with the proper supply power and eliminate the transformer all together being that's what the unit was designed to work with.

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#17

Re: Voltage Drop On Transformer When A/C Turns On

01/05/2017 6:54 AM

Why in God's name, did you use such a transformer? I need not elucidate further, as I think that there are already enough posts here telling you the problems you have and why....

But you neglected to tell us why you did not use 220VAC in the first place? Which is what is really needed of course.....

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#18
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Re: Voltage Drop On Transformer When A/C Turns On

01/05/2017 9:00 AM

Very good point indeed. Remember, everything you add into a circuit is one more thing that can go wrong.

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