Sniper Rifles

Trackingpoint is even more....

..."Initially, the view through a tracking scope is simply a magnified view of the target along an axis parallel to the rifle barrel. The shooter first "tags" a target by choosing a desired impact point on the target's surface. An electronic display adds a red dot that indicates the desired impact point, which remains fixed on the target as the direction of the rifle changes.

If the shooter fired the gun at this point, the result would be a clean miss. Between gravity, atmospheric drag, parallax, and cross-winds, bullets don't follow a straight path. What the shooter needs is a firing solution telling him where to point the rifle barrel so the bullet will hit the desired impact point when fired.

Now the riflescope computer displaces the aiming cross-hairs so that they indicate the bullet's impact point as predicted by the firing solution. If the trigger is now squeezed, the rifle will not fire until the desired impact point and the predicted impact point are sufficiently close together. At 1000 yards (914 m), most shots should hit within the width of a single hand."...

At $15-20k not cheap....

https://newatlas.com/trackingpoint-precision-guided-firearms-scopes-digital/25264/

Great! Just what we need!

An easy way for any crazy person to kill anybody from 500 yards away!

Of course, there will be no restrictions on who can own this killing machine as long as they have the purchase price. I'm fine with this technology in the hands of the military.

Before anybody brands me anti-gun, I've owned guns since I was 13 years old.

But there should be a limit on what any insane person can walk into a gun store and buy, without restriction. (Bump stock, anyone?)

Marked OT.

I don't think there is much resistance to keeping guns out of the hands of dangeous nsane people.

The devil is of course in the details. Who gets to decide who is insane? Is it a proactive process or something triggered only upon gun purchase?

And of particular current interest; how, oh how, do you deal with the nutjob won't be caught making a purchase because he has had guns since he was 13?

Your obviously juvenile, rude, disgusting implication that I am a "nut job" is just another example of your sick, disturbed mind!

What is that, a narsassistic trail,? Grandiosity? Paranoia?

Someone believing they are the only persom who has owned guns since the age of thirteen is certainly not indicative of clear, level headed thought.

Where did he intimate that he was the only such person?

Not rocket surgery, but okay, here is how it breaks down:

His follow up response would be a nonsequitur if there was no assumption on his part that no other person (much less a group) might also have possession of a gun or guns before being a legal adult.

In fact, the group is cetainly large. I am one as well. Any sufficiently large group is bound to have nut jobs.

The assumption that because I referenced his specific mention of owning a gun at thirteen (it raises a good point for discussion) that it necessarily indicates I claim he is a nut job, reads in standard English as he is indicating that my comment can onky be interpreted as calling him a nutjob.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he isn't. Whether he is or isn't has no bearing on the broader problem of what to do about mentally unstable people already in possession of firearms.

Granted, the suggestion was made available, but he had to pick it up and own it. He eagerly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CO6M2HsoIA

You're equating this to a single shooter with a smart rifle?

Now let's see what they're actually being used for,,, right now....

..."The drones rise into view under a piercing, bright sun. Racing forward, they take up positions overhead, almost as if they’re sizing things up. And just when you’re wondering whether they’re about to shoot a video, deliver a package, or take over the world, they … plant a tree.

Make that thousands of trees.

That’s the kind of surprising experience you might have if you spend the afternoon in Myanmar with its new fleet of autonomous airborne vehicles from BioCarbon Engineering, a startup that’s changing the way forests are replenished (and the way these fearsome flying bots are seen).

Here’s how it works: First, an initial drone fleet maps the terrain where BioCarbon Engineering is brought in to plant. Then, a second wave comes, firing nutrient-rich seed pods into soil areas carefully selected by an algorithm that analyzes the mapping data. In a day’s work, planters can top out at a whopping 100,000 trees a day."...

https://www.good.is/articles/biocarbon-engineering-drones-plant-trees-in-myanmar

Yes, a good and benign us of drones where people on the ground are very costly and the area is remote.

I agree that the idea that this technology can be purchased by anyone disturbs me. Remember if a civilian can purchase this technology then it will be used against US troops when we send them to other countries. I'm also sure several drug cartels would acquire these "sniper in a box" gadgets, too.

Lyn,

These are already in the hands of our enemies. Look at the reports of Isis types using Drones to drop off IEDs and possibly Nerve Gas, into large groups of people.

As in Sports, Defense and knowledge are the best offense..

I went to a site. www.atncorp.com ( X sight ll hd series )

excerpts used to describe product:

whole new level, immerse, cockpit like experience, entirely new shooting experience, share the fun, perfect shots, most powerful.

( Unknown if this marketing is producing results. )

Well, the newer sniper rifles isolate the rifle from the aimer, who can be quite remote, which eliminates some of the mano - a mano risk

Very interesting. Although not an "electronic" trigger, it will still do the job. It appears there is still room for new ideas.

Your idea reminded me of the smart spoon that is currently available for parkinsons sufferers. Not sure, but I believe it is an internal gyro that stabilizes the spoon for people with tremors.

Food for thought, maybe...

That's a great idea!

"Smart" Spoon for Parkinson's Sufferers - YouTube

'Smart' Spoon Allows Parkinson's Sufferers to Feed Themselves

There is also the course correcting bullet developed by DARPA...

An interesting little round, path is revealed by an infra-red retro reflector in the base, which monitors position and rate of angular rotation. There is a single spring loaded vane that projects into the slip stream and can raise/lower a little at whatever part of the rotational circle. As it enters the stream, drag ensues at a radial position decided by the logic in the rifle - which observes the path and activates the vane so it pokes up for a fraction of a second and drops back down. The logic steers the round to the target as it measures varying windage etc.

Getting back to Ronseto's actual question:

I suspect the ergonomic control of keeping the barrel steady on the desired trajectory is a much bigger problem than the flinch of a trigger finger.

the future of war is deep echelons of snipers, coupled with smart weapons. Read the latest Russian battle doctrine. Snipers in depth, with 2000 meter ranges and isolated sniper weapons with one sniper remote operating a number of well concealed sniper positions. Israelis are also well up on this stuff. Better than the USA, even the UK and France beat the USA. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810718

I don't dispute at all that this technology exists or that it will become wide spread. I'm disgusted by it and by how much effort and finances are spent to destroying instead of building. I know, this is not a new lament but I'm still sick of it.

We are the war apes, it is our nature.

Who is "we"? You got a frog in your pocket?

Man kind knows no greater motivator for developing ingenious ideas into reliable functioning systems than fighting to save what we value most.

You can deny it, but you'll broadcast that denial on the back of innovation made workable on the back of the horror of uncountable battles

Undefined: <...We...>. One presumes that belonging is optional (rhetorical question - NNTR)?

<unsubscribes>

It is optional. Unfortunately, too often not enough people decline to participate.

Speak for yourself. Don't drag sane people down to your level/

It takes an amazing detachment from reality to deny that war and conflict has been among the largest motivators, if not the largest motivating force for innovation and implementation of advancements.

We are commonly seen as the only possible competitor for ourselves.

Moreover, the very language with which most of us communicate and think elucidates our obsession with war/battle/fighting. The language suggests it is reserved for the most important interactions and goals. We make war on poverty and drugs. We fight for what is right. We battle for what is right. Sales wars and trade wars are how we describe commerce. Even in attempts to heal we frame it as battling cancer, etc.

We don't even let out own person escape from the violence from ourselves. A person doesn't swallow back their tears, they choke them back.

You can deny that your life is greatly improved by so many advanvements that were accomplished with the assistance of the needs of war. You can deny that the very language you think glorifies such conflict. And this right to be wrong and openly state that opinion was realised and supported with loss and suffering of masses of people in the horrors of wars/battles.

Your statement, "We are the war apes, it is our nature" is ignorant and ridiculous! Your disjointed follow-up drivel does nothing to help your cause.

As I said, speak for yourself!

Further more, the method of attachment of an appliance to a weapon has many variables.

Try, please try, to make meaningful comments and refrain from pitiful attempts to belittle someone with whom you do not agree.

I'm done with you.

You have my permission to have the last word.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

Thank you for graciously granting me the last word, i.e. attempting to garner the last word in you assumption that I would be so opposed to doing anything you say so as to allow you to direct my actions with counter-commands. You don't have to try so hard. You already have input into whether or not I am likely to respond, though it is with the content of your commentary and not any direct or counter commands.

Also, please know your commentary is appreciated for its unique style of near total self-unaware-ness made consistently apparent through blatant hypocrisy. 'Don't belittle', you chide, as if you've got some sort of copyright.

While numerous technical questions and challenges related to assertions you have made in other posts, you chose not to respond to those, yet want to pick fights about things you claim to find insufficiently meaningful. Apparently it means enough you are compelled to respond. You obviously aren't responding out of some avuncular desire to improve my person or this site as a whole. If I were to guess, the underlying reason to respond to these 'uninteresting' comments and not the more challenging technical challenges is because you are bothered at not having good responses for the more serious questions.

So rant and holler and posture and belittle away... conflict is the base nature and defaukt MO of an unrefined war ape.

Freedom is not free, we must defend ourselves and our allies with more determination than our enemies....sure we'd all be happier off doing something else....but we must accept our reality and deal with it...the choice to do nothing is not an option...adversity spurs innovation and drives technology forward, embrace your fate...and you'll have peace in the end....

We'll all have "peace" in the end. It's just a question of how we meet that end.

Just how free do you want to be?

We blow $700 BILLION dollars every year, and climbing on "defense." That's more than the next seven countries combined. We no longer defend our allies, we alienate them with insults and arrogance.

That just makes us the world's biggest bully and it doesn't make us any more free, or safe. If anything we have much less freedom than we did 60 years ago.

We spend huge amounts on Nuclear carriers, which are a one shot nuclear sunk target. We spend on what outdated military thinking wants to buy, such as manned interceptors that can be easily shot down by drones who can pull 30-50 G.

The whole US military is a rusting hulk, and new stuff is suppressed by lobbyists

Hear, hear.

Just another in a long line of products marketed for the, " clean " kill.

With the end result being ; in war movies there is always the soldier that remarks, " there's not much you can do, when the bullets got your name on it ".

That end result being the capacity to really put a name on it, so no matter where you hide, the bullet, once fired, will find you.

"Finally, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that there are laws preventing us law-abiding citizens from walking into a store and buying a scope like this, and probably the same would apply to an electronic trigger (maybe)."

You are wrong. There are no restrictions on these types of killing machines.

It's bad enough, thanks to the NRA and their massive political contributions to Congress and it's only going to get much worse under the new administration!

On the federal NO FLY list and want to buy a gun? No problem, how many do you want?

Even mentally sick individuals can legally purchase weapons.

Congress is rapidly gutting any restrictive laws having to do with gun ownership. They are expected to legalize SILENCERS, yes noise suppressors, for rifles and pistols so that anybody, yes anybody, can buy one and screw it onto the barrel so there is virtually NO noise any distance from the barrel.

".... screw it onto the barrel so there is virtually NO noise any distance from the barrel. ...."

.

Not really how it works. Educate yourself a little on these things against which you rail so hard.

We have seen how badly we were served by pacifists who were sure Germany was not an ongoing threat. We were very very lucky that Hitler was a military fool who saved us from the war Germany may well have won if his generals ran that war and Russia was never invaded.

We are also aware of how badly Chinese civilians were served by Japanese soldiers who invaded their territory.

We can not sit by and allow a lack of preparedness to lead us into disaster. Politicians ALWAYS feather their own nests and those who lobby the best.

So we must stay ahead of the potential invader so he decides to stay home after he measures his offence versus our defense and finds he will lose.

I have often felt that a law mandating all vehicles carry a pistol for defense may well lead to more courtesy on our roads...

Can't we keep this discussion civil? I asked a simple question. I don't want it to become an argument.

Sorry. I have concluded my "discussion" with the war ape.

The level of sophistication of such devices is only limited by the size of your wallet.

I once worked on a project where we mounted a 40 mm Bofors cannon on an Abrams tank and used the fire control system from an F-16 fighter to "run and shoot" at aircraft. The projectiles were equipped with prox radar and when they got into the kill zone, they detonated.

Yes, it's possible.

Mount the rifle on a base and take the human completely out of the equation, except to carry and position it.

Mount the rifle on a tracked vehicle and control the entire process remotely.

I expect that anything that we can imagine has been done or thought of already.

Snipers usually operate at longer ranges(I believe one poster noted 1000 yards with just plain scope) and from what I read of this innovation, it does not appear to make any corrections for wind conditions at the target.

The innovation may improve the accuracy of a shooter, but will not guarantee it.

I believe this is why the poster noted the requirement to succeed under less than optimal conditions before proceeding further training as a sniper. The shooter learns to observe conditions at the target when considering his shot.

Considering that the innovation will not allow the weapon to be fired unless the target is within limits acceptable to the mechanism, chances of use on large concentrations of people will be foiled by the very movement of people fleeing for cover.

electronic trigger for rifles

I used to shoot target rifle for the NROTC rifle team at Oregon State and the trigger flinch you are talking about is one of the first basic problems you learn to overcome. To do that, the first thing to go is a heavy trigger pull. A target rifle is considered more a shooting machine rather than a rifle. A sniper rifle is much the same thing. Among the first things considered was to go to hair triggers and/or double set triggers. I had a Remington 700BDL in 25-'06 set up for hunting sage rats with a hair trigger. The only problem was that with the hair trigger, occasionally if you put the safety on, the hair trigger would initiate and the firing mechanism would wait to release until the safety was turned off, at which point it would fire. I have also seen some trigger mechanisms where you intentionally pulled the trigger, did final position and then the rifle would fire upon release.

The electronic triggers are interesting and the combination of laser path of flight sensing for wind, shimmer and mirage, electronic point of aim release and terminal guidance make for a really deadly combination, but also lead to the possibility of developing really sloppy aim and hold habits.

Some of my best target training was done using flintlock rifles. Normal firing mechanism and ignition speed these days with modern ammunition is in the 5 millisecond from trigger release to bullet leaving the barrel. The best flintlocks were on the order of 83 milliseconds, so when you fired you had to hold without flinch. Most target flintlocks used double set triggers, and when you had a well cast bullet, consistent load and good powder, my wife's father and I could consistently shoot 1/4" point of impact groups of five shots at 100 yards.