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Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/21/2007 8:07 AM

For the past 5 years I have been designing (in my spare time) and building prototypes for a gizmo (can't say more yet, sorry) I am currently on prototype 4, This prototype will cost me plenty of hard earned cash so instead of building a test tank and scaled models, I was wondering if anybody has come across a program to simulate fluid flow across a given shape? This would enable me to refine the form and build a better prototype! Any input would be highly appreciated. Thanks

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#1

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/21/2007 8:39 AM

Are you trying different shapes types, circular, plate, or is the shape like an airfoil, there are quite alot of shareware (some good, and some not so good) for airfoils.

google "airfoil design shareware"

Maybe you could adapt it????

good luck,

phoenix911

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/21/2007 11:23 AM

I've looked at a few demos but they won't allow adaptation! I'll check out that site and see what I can get. The form I have needs to be very hydrodynamic due to the size! cheers.

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#3

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/22/2007 1:56 AM

Can you apply FoilSim somehow ? ( know zilch about it )

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#4

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/22/2007 2:26 AM

Hi,

Which Reynolds or Taylor number are you talking about?

Pure viscous flow you can calculate with many of the FEM or FDM programs.

First vortices are until now not possible to calculate - only the onset is within estimates.

Established turbulent flow - there exist some modeling tools but these are mostly based empirical and I would not trust the results.

It took many months of math and engineers working time to get the calculations ready on reentry vehicles similar to the space shuttle.

So this would cost more than your model.

What about building a small scale model with changed speed and density so that the flow is very similar to the full size?

RHABE

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#5

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/22/2007 3:22 AM

Its a really good idea to analyse the product at conceptual stage itself which can reduce the design cost and time and improve the quality as well.

There are several commerical and academic CFD software/codes available to analyse the fluid flow across any shape along with even heat transfer, chemical reaction and combustion. The most popular among them are Fluent- from Ansys Inc USA, Star-CD - from CD Adapco USA, CFX from Ansys Inc USA, Flowtran, Fluidyne, Teach code, KIVA Code etc. These software are very much in use in automotive, aerospace, chemical, Defense, Heavy enginereing and other engineering.

Stud

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#6

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/22/2007 4:43 AM

Thanks all, I have a busy weekend ahead on the computer! Hopefully I can test a few shapes!

As for Reynolds or Taylor numbers, I will leave that till later on!

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#7

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/22/2007 8:36 AM

You might check out Comsol Multiphysics. They have a Chemical Engineering Module that includes hydrodynamics analysis capabilities, as well as other modules that may be relevant to your project. I think you might be able to get a demo version that would let you try it out. Good luck with your project, sounds interesting.

jhammond

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#8

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/23/2007 3:11 PM

What you need is (to own of have access to) a good 3d cfd program. I'm on the run, but I think a freeware version is called Dolphin, which runs under linux. Poke around some of the aerodynamics sites, and you'll find references to various programs, most of which are hideously expensive. But from what I've heard, Dolphin works well and is free.

Another possibility is to hook up with a unverstiy with a good aerospace or fluid dynamics program. Towing stuff behind (alongside) a motor boat is a possibility too. Also Davidson Lab in NJ has various towing tanks, etc you can rent.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/24/2007 8:18 AM

Cheers Ken, I'll go check it out now. I've looked through the other suggestions, and the Profili looks quite promising! I'll keep you all up to date if I can remember!

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/24/2007 9:38 AM

Hello Ken,

My experience with using a firm for hydrodynamic testing. (towing tanks) Is that the window for test was tight. If you missed it, you have to wait. And it will still cost you.

(I had worked in shipyard in development of Special Ops craft.)

plus there's a budget its has been some time since I worked in this area, I think it may still be pricey.

phoenix911

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/24/2007 1:53 PM

I agree, towing tanks present difficulties in scheduling, cost, making scale models etc. Occasionally, you can get usage for free, if you can make it a class project at a university.

BTW, Truman, the CFD program I was thinking of is Dolfyn, not Dolphin. A source for various cfd programs available (many free or cheap) is here.

I have a simple 2D flow program called PANDA from Desktop aeronautics, and if you are interested mainly in 2D flow (above and below an airfoil for example) and not too concerned with what happens at the tip or root of the airfoil, it works well. The 3D programs are more difficult to use and much slower in doing the calculations.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/24/2007 1:58 PM

Ken,

Yes, on the 3D is alot of number crunching going on, On occasion I do need a basic 2D flow program though (2D more than 3D), thanks from the link.

Phoenix911

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/26/2007 5:44 PM

If you get to the stage where you need to do some tank testing, you might want to consider using this to make a cheap (okay maybe not so cheap) and nasty flume tank:

http://www.endlesspools.com/index.html

I might even want to buy some testing time in it myself...


Maurice

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Hydrodynamics Software Simulations

09/27/2007 11:08 AM

I think I'll go and rip up the patio this weekend and build an endless pool just for the hell of it, cheers!!

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Blink (2); jhammond (1); Kris (1); MauriceS (1); Mr. Truman Brain (4); phoenix911 (3); RHABE (1); stud (1)

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