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Generator and Capacitors

03/02/2019 7:31 AM

Following a major fire cutting our electric supply, I have a 175kva generator to temporary supply six CNC machine tools and a rotary screw compressor, running continuously but cutting in when pressures demand.

The genny is rated about 40% over max demand but it does momentarily 'dip' when a load comes on. All the machines are modern Fanuc digital/servo drives.

Would a capacitor bank help avoid the dips - the genny runs at 1500rpm, the dip lasts and recovers inside 2 seconds, the revs drop to about 1460 and overall the electronic throttle governor does a great job.

We are a high precision shop, never seriously attacking metal so it really is the spindle motors ramping up and down drawing the current. All the axis have acceleration and deceleration ramping and those motors are relatively light.

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#1

Re: Generator and capacitors

03/02/2019 8:17 AM

I'm thinking that you should check your voltage regulator. If it is not paralleled with another bus, it should be set in "non-droop" mode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_droop

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#2

Re: Generator and capacitors

03/02/2019 10:59 AM

Caps are not a good idea if you have a lot of electronic power systems and a high impedance source like a generator. You are just asking for resonance problems. All of your servo amplifiers, VFDs (if any) and power supplies have capacitors in them already. Solve your problem at the generator as suggested.

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#3

Re: Generator and Capacitors

03/02/2019 6:03 PM

In an AC application, how would a capacitor store energy for longer than half a cycle? This whole notion seems misconceived.

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#4

Re: Generator and Capacitors

03/03/2019 7:05 AM

Such small generators typically come with VAR / power factor control mode and Voltage control mode selection.

In Voltage control mode, the voltage control will be faster and finely controlled. Select the same.

Further, if you could enable cross current compensation, it will further improve the voltage recovery under sudden load change conditions.

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#5

Re: Generator and Capacitors

03/03/2019 8:38 AM

No. Capacitors only address the VAR (reactive load) that comes from the inductive nature of transformers and induction motors. The voltage regulator (AVR) does the same by changing the excitation current and the generator output voltage.

What you are experiencing is the real MW load swings. The real power comes from the mechanical engine or turbine or ... that drives the generator.

The mechanical power is controlled (regulated) by the "Speed / Load Governor" and one needs a reasonable response time (two seconds is good) to keep the load from oscillating.

Both load and voltage governors need this instantaneous droop, for stability. Many will have a "droopless" setting that basically moves the governor set-point so that the resulting voltage or frequency goes back to your target value.

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#6

Re: Generator and Capacitors

03/04/2019 1:06 PM

A <...capacitor bank...> would not help avoid the dips in an AC situation. They are only of use on AC in correcting low power factor, the justification for which is reducing cable heating losses and avoiding low power factor penalties in utility providers' tariffs.

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#7

Re: Generator and Capacitors

03/04/2019 10:34 PM

A large slow speed (8 pole maybe) inexpensive induction electric motor driving a large diameter flywheel adding perhaps 10-20% to your total load might improve the recovery. As Power Prof correctly points out, the speed of the governor response is the cause for the dip. This is a feedback loop, sampling engine speed and responding with increased or decreased fuel according to decreased or increased speed.

Having a flywheel and a large rotor diameter motor will present some mechanical inertia to help reduce the drop in speed when load is applied, This has nothing to do with voltage regulation, confusing due to the OP calling the drop in speed a dip, without qualifying it as frequency or voltage...

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#8

Re: Generator and Capacitors

03/05/2019 5:57 AM

Yes, as rwilliams points out, one can minimize AC frequency variation with some type of energy storage, like inertia. In the utility power generation world, pumped storage of water between two reservoirs provides the largest amount of energy storage.

Today, I think that the most rapidly growing storage business is in banks of batteries with inverters. BBC, GE and Tesla have commercial products (and there are probably many more vendors). Their systems would cost a lot more than a capacitor bank, of course, but they would work.

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#9

Re: Generator and Capacitors

03/06/2019 6:36 AM

Some points...

  1. Standard instrumentation for speed has a sluggish response. Your 40 rpm (2.7%) dip may be much less than you really have.
  2. Standard performance for a diesel mechanical governor would be 4% fall from no- load to full load, steady state, and 10% dip on sudden full load from no-load.
  3. The 4% speed fall steady-state is necessary for controlled load-up and load sharing in parallel with a Grid or other generators. A generator on its own can operate with much less than 4% which can speed response.
  4. It is not clear if it is the minimum frequency reached causing trouble. If that is so, then increasing speed setting 5% should not cause trouble for any loads, but will raise the inertia 10% and directly raise bottom frequency by 5%.
  5. The governor/fuel pump usually has limits on rate of fuel increase and maximum fuel, which can be adjusted. e.g. there is usually a mechanical stop on the fuel rack for injection pump stroke.
  6. Ratings are often given as the absolute maximums - Continuous duty engines used to be rated for 10% overload for 1 hour in 12.
  7. No comment has mentioned the voltage dips - here again the panel meter does not respond quickly. A direct-on-line started motor takes 6 times full-load current [and 1-2 times rated kW] & standard design requires 80% minimum volts during start. The commonest mistake in sizing diesel generators is to just look at kW (horsepower) and not amps. While generator makers have done a lot to improve overload performance, 3 x rated load at 80% volts is good & whatever the excitation, speed dip proportionally reduces volts.
  8. Voltage regulators typically have 3% voltage fall at 100% amps for stable parallel running - this can be reduced on a solo unit. As for frequency, it is probably OK to increase volts setting to 105% nominal - reducing the dip minimum.
  9. The loads you give sound like inverter drive speed controls - these rectify the AC to DC - so they do not care about frequency, but are directly affected by volts. The compressor may be direct on line, but if it is normally running at rated speed & not started each time pressure drops then it will not be a big kW/amp step.
  10. There may be adjustments possible on the drives to limit sudden kW/amps demands, current limits, ramp rates etc.

I suggest discussing your problem with the genset and drive suppliers - they may be able to help with measurements & adjustments to reduce your frequency/volts fluctuations.

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Users who posted comments:

67model (1); JRaef (1); Power Prof (2); PWSlack (1); raghun (1); Rixter (1); rwilliams (1); Tornado (1)

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