Junk Yard Battery Contest

Whew sorry I'm late.

I shuffeled my feet [socks ] on the carpet

the meter pegged

do I qualify?

1/36'000'000 ahr per 2 shuffles

damm forgot the voltage

6'000/36'000'000 ahr per 2 shuffles............................................

pic is just in case anyone wondered what my new avatar is

You would be ill advised to challenge me in Germanglish Andy. Whilst I play with the wordes grammmer und spellin, I would crucify u if i took a mind. evun ER + lyn truss wood have a battle . wonna play writin in english ? NO, I hope not - it aint dfair for pepes who dont use it as a furst language . Agreed ? Ya wantsa ta play then carrion.u no s well s ido that help[in other pepeple to undurstand inglish is a gud idia. wef uck in shuduntpiss with this cos it impers overs from comuunbicatuinmg.

In that sort of English, no way!!!

Cleanliness like normalcy is highly over rated

I suppose all of you became engineer's [isn't that the guy that wrecks the train] so you could play w/nice clean drawings & books.........

I thought not..... most of us were the one's mucking about w/crappy old cars, radios, all manner of things that go whirr, clank, spark & humm.

if you're any good you can critique any of the multitudes of various devices & systems.

& probably think you could do it better given the resources, or @ the very least identify the Strong & weak points.

I got side tracked, getting dirty, cut, shocked[w/in reason] & generally knocking about is a genetic trait of the engineer/designer/implimenter set. I suppose we can have that nature nurture argument now.

The avatar was a really funny shirt before the "war on terror" [war on freedom is more like it]

out of fashion for a few years, pretty [insert sexual explative that starts w/a f] funny again these days

but no one ever bothered to ask about it

so no longer being able to contain myself I had to share.

Since Del started this thread, I shall consider this post on topic!!!!!!!!!!

Good God, man! Now is the perfect time to start wearing that shirt!!! It's now that we need to be reminded not to go paranoid and lose all our Constitutional freedoms!!!

I will wear it to various holiday festivities!

You'd better...

Reporting here and now the results of my cell build. Note that there are some posts I haven't read. Today is Saturday the 24th of November, 2007. Materials used were leftover Stop Bath, Spoiled Apple Cider Vinegar, Miller Beer cans, Roofing Copper, Copper Plumbing pipes, wires & screws. One cell was made of Salt Water and copper. All anodes and cathodes were the same material, either copper or aluminum can.

Containers were of either Gatorate bottles, Glass Milk Bottles, or Flower Vases I borrowed from my wife. Test equipment was a Sperry Digital Multimeter set to 2 on the DCmA scale. I've somehow spent 24 dollars on wire and eye nuts and screws. The bottle of Stop Bath I depleted from leftover Darkroom supplies was probably 8 bucks. Rotten Vinegar, Priceless! (Organic Apple Cider, found under the sink.)

1. Vinegar & roof copper strips produced .225 and then stablized to last test at .319.

2. Salt Water & copper pipe .048 ti .028.

3. Acetic Acid (stop bath) 3 to 1 mix & 1.5 to 3" copper roof tin plates .431 to .268

-Around there in testing got a bit more slapdash: copper strips and weaker Electolyte .106.

Beer Can and Acetic Acid .090.

Last test with all together produced .926 after stabilization and initial reading of .133.

Stabbed potatoe and stabbed orange produced .001.

I took a picture of the mess with a 9 dollar Vivatar mini digital camera that I'll try and figure out how to post.

Hi Trans,

how strong or what ph is stop bath?

Click on the camera icon to post pics

Congratulations on your endeavour and reporting Transcendian. I can't help but feel sad over the cider vinegar - could the assembled kit not have been used to make a still ? I realize you may not be able to divulge this for legal reasons, but hey, it has been Thanksgiving. Also I saw what those guys did with potato in that film "The Great Escape" .. Kudos for your serious techno answer.

Now can anyone tell me how to make a battery with my giant copper water-heating tank ? I'll try if cheap methods are proposed.

Nice, that sounds like some pretty useful current.

I'd be interested to see the open circuit voltage across the cell.

I have some nice galvanised steel mash which will have quite a good surface area, got some sheet too.

Maybe I'll try some more tests, I've got some glass jars.

I'll have another tinker tomorrow if it's a bit warmer...It didn't get muck above 5 or cdegrees C today.... I have some 'Brownie point' accumulated from Mrs Cat for decorating like good kitty .

Del

Went out and came back and checked again, had crossed the volt barrier to 1.68 at last test. Sorry about the one cell thing Del. Interesting that it has come test higher as the afternoon has gone on.

Rules are made for breaking... as many cells as you like is fine.

( I wasn't given the rules by a bloke with a beard when I went up a mountain)

Del

as many cells as you like is fine !!!!

You never made that clear at the start Del ! If I'd have known I'd have got lemons when they were cheap in the supermarket. Humph. I know it's called a battery contest, but I'm sure that somewhere you implied it had to be a cell. What the heck am I going to do with my big copper tank now ?

Like any contest, the number one rule is: lie, lie, lie, and lie!

Dear Worried of Etherville.

Iv'e consulted with my Rules and Essex committee and we decided...

We are willing to bend over backwards when someone is actually doing something...oooh errr missus!

After all, many people took the option of builing zero cells...so we felt Trans' was simply compensating for that deficiency...and after applying some rigourous statistical analysis (using the KrisDel^TM excellent ^'Lieostats' package) we find that overall the average number of cells is in fact one.

I hope you find this suitably reassuring...

(any further question of the rules can be settled with a suitable bribe)

Del

I vill bury you wit mine ubber cell... If I don't wake up vith a bad hangover tomorrow. and can get to mine tool shoppe!!!

Morning Cell Test Report: Of course I had to take everything out of the kitchen when my wife got home, and put it out on the deck. It's about 45 degrees out there so I was pleased to discover the best looking cell also performed the best, by itself producing 1.67 at first read this morning, and just now 1.555. It is sort of interesting that the prettiest vase with the stuff in it performs the best.

At first touch there is a peak reading of 1.9s.

For this particular cell I used the heavier gauge wire I had bought at the hardware store, the copper roofing tin strips, and stop bath.

I have so far neglected to explain that for anode and cathode separators I cut up a plastic bottle and slipped it in-between the plates. I am pleased to have broken the "volt barrier", and come close to the 2 volt max for a single cell. Well maybe the Trident Sub Battery cells put out 2.7.

What now? I intend to at least buy a little light bulb and hook it up and see how long it stays lit.

If I replicate this particular cell design and assemble a battery that will run my 5" B&W TV, full success will have been achieved.

Possibly my next project ought to be to make a Dry Cell out of stuff around the house since this thing would really eat some holes in the carpets if it got knocked over.

As far as this thread, thanks to Del for initiating the contest. I'll finish sometime with a post of a better picture of the best performing cell.

How about an LED instead of a light bulb?

Blimey! Broken the volt barrier.....and close to two....for a single cell!!!

Wow..you are leaving us trailing in your wake I'm V impressed.

I shall borrow Mrs Cat's prettiest vase to see if it helps!

What is that stop bath stuff chemically?

Del

Welcome to short attention span theater.

1. Vinegar & roof copper strips produced .225 and then stablized to last test at .319.

2. Salt Water & copper pipe .048 ti .028.

3. Acetic Acid (stop bath) 3 to 1 mix & 1.5 to 3" copper roof tin plates .431 to .268

-Around there in testing got a bit more slapdash: copper strips and weaker Electolyte .106.

Beer Can and Acetic Acid .090.

I think there may be some confusion between measuring short circuit current mA and open circuit volts.

Numbers without a meaningful suffix are confusing and unhelpful...I am trying to be my usual cheerful, enthusiastic self....

I'm not quite sure what the bold type and the 'short attention span' thing is all about...maybe I'm being a thick cat...but I'm a happy cat.

I am also vastly more tollerant of errors and omissions from those who are actually building something.

Vast appologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick and am appearing grumpy for no good reason!

A rather confused, tired and hungry

Del

The bold was a quote from Tran's earlier post, the short attention span was just a swat @ the cat's tail!

Sounds like you should make an ruling & determine what the official load should be? For simplicity the load should be the same for volts & current.

I'm still waiting for a judges ruling whether my static cell qualifies?

I must have missed the 'static cell' post .. ..mind..my memory isn't quite as thingy as it....this post has been up ages... when do we land?

Anyhow...i'm sure your static cell will qualify...if there is any doubt...just jiggle it a little (I say that to all the girls...)

Del

Post # 98 contains the out line of static cell.

Ah, yes I remember it now...

I believe Kris has been working on (or is that 'in') a padded cell....

ahh

Good to have tasty friends in the animal kingdom

Del, how about short circuit current and open circuit voltage to be measured and provided for each battery entered.....correctly marked of course!

Normally, for a good working battery, you need dissimilar metals each time for anode & cathode. Did you actually have that?

I had thought that as well about the dissimilar materials for anode and cathode, but somewhere in the battery threads I read, that was more important with Dry Cells, that what sure looks to me as a Wet Cell.

I just went ahead and put the meter on it.

Apparently it worked as I had been told it might.

I might try the potato test again, which I used as a baseline simplicity and calibration check.

In that case I cut the copper roofing material into points and stabbed the potato and the orange. Highest read was .016 and then next day .004.

I have some aluminum and copper, and since that is most common I may try those in some solution and see what is produced, and for how long with a load.

I am interested now in making a Dry Cell that will perform as well, or better than my last success, which feels temporary, unless I resign myself to it as a Flow Battery, or cell, and not yet Rechargable.

Acetic Acid, Sodium Acetate,Water/brand is Sprint Block. Price on this bottle is 4.99. Apoligize for not being sure of the mix ratio, think it was 200 mls to about 6 or 7 hundred mls. Looks like about 10 or twelve fluid ounces anyway. I think I did end up using zinc coated screw, more by accident than note of advice. I also left screws exposed, also more by accident than due to advice.

I attribute some of the success to the wire for that particular cell, since it is the only one for which I used the 12AWG 3.31mm wire. essexep.com is printed on the wire, and some other stuff that I can't read without a magnifying glass, ending with 600V-VW-1. I believe the wire was 19 cents a foot.

I don't have one of those things you check for specific gravity with. If I see one at the gas station I'll buy one. I need to check my antifreeze anyway.

I had help posting the photo of the mess in the kitchen, and when the girls get home maybe they will help me at that again get a photo of the best performer.

I may try again with Vinegar and the same materials to see what I get since the Acetic Acid will eat your clothes and I'm envisioning a Holiday Lighting display powered by the liquids and stuff at a bar. If beer works as an electrolyte that would be great, since it gets spilled anyway.

Cheap wine might be better, with a dash of salt.

Oh, and now, what to do with this power? To paraphase: "It's not how much power you have, but what you do with it."

Ha! The next step in the creation of my Junkyard Battery of Death is complete... Do you smell that, Del?! It's electric doom hot on your trail!

Of course, it may just run out of power before it's complete, too.

As longas that isn't a missprit for 'tail'

My God! You should see the high-techery going on around here. My international staff of junkyard battery experts are shur... ah, working around the clock to achieve the final Assembly! Why this is so high tech here, that you can't see the batteries for the trees!!!

Also, each junkyard specialist also brought their junkyard dogs along - which, as we speak, are being force fed lemons around the clock!!!

When I switch it on, you will know because all the phones in the World starting to ring!

My god! The mans on fire! Somebody call a journalist!

After 4 or 5 days out there on the increasingly cold deck my cell has fallen from its highs, over a volt, to at last test -.555. This is comparable to some of your creations. Just tested again and only got .073, while the vinegar was still putting out about what it did originally if I can find my note card. .125.

My cells degeneration reminds me of the movie about the guy who was mentally challenged, then given a drug that made him smart, and then the drug wore off. -Think it was a Robin Williams movie. Didn't see it.

It would be nice for me, or us to know what the most powerful low tech combinations of metals and electrolytes were, that would actually power something for an acceptable period of time.

I did discover the "Flow Battery" concepts in my studies, which is useful to know about. Such would imply that if I just pour out the electrolyte and pour in some new, another spike in power potential will be achieved.

For some reason I am interested in discovering what the easiest simpliest and most powerful batteries could be assembled from trash.

In my world aluminum and roofing tin, and roofing copper, and stray electricians wires are construction trash. It would be nice to perfect the wet cell before I go on to the toliet paper tube and vegetable can charcoal and ground up stuff mash can cell.

Maybe Del the cat will start another contest I could watch.

Maybe Vermin will crush me.

Maybe the Moon will get hit by four asteroids at once and become square.

At this point though I am available for a job selling batteries made by experts, that are better than mine in hopes of getting a discount.

Why don't you try recharging it with a DC power supply?

Please try recharging it. If the voltage reaches -.666 the A-Pok_O-Lips will be upon us! Hurry, man! You have the fate of the world in your wife's best vase!!!

6th Cell: I got a gallon of vinegar, and spent 5 dollars on screws, and had collected some galvanized roofing tin, and some copper pipes and still had some roofing copper, and put another cell together.

In a quart pickle jar I put the approximately 1" strips of roofing tin, and copper and then poured in the distilled white vinegar, and got a solid one volt on first read.

Tools involved: Wiss Tin Cutters, or tin snips. Wire cutters. Wire strippers. Digital Multimeter. Needle nose pliers.

Materials: Roofing copper. Roofing Tin. 600 volt AWG wire. Vinegar. Bottles or Vases.

Goal. Replicatible and useful power source for lights or communications, or something else, possible to make from common trash and something from the grocery store.

Kudos man...you are really running with this....

I do intend to have a nother go...but, I have decorating stuff to do at the mo'

Del

I'm just biding my time, waiting to pounce at that precise moment!

You, and the entire city of Madrid.

OK, cat-boyt!!! You're back on the air!!!

I just completed assembling my battery and am running it for the first time! No, we did not forget you. Life just gets in the way sometimes.

So how much juice have you got ?

For some reason, it's fluctuating between 1/2 and 1 volt. I need to figure out why!

Maybe you invented an AC battery !

A possible reason is gas bubbles on either the anode or the cathode.....they tend to "insulate".....

Interesting thought as far as the fluxuations. My highest meter readings were 1.9, and would fall while the meter was on the anode and cathode wires. I guess it was Thanksgiving when all of the cells were made. I standardized the strips of roofing copper and roofing tin and used white vinegar, acetic acid (stop bath) and piss water.

I left all the cells on the back deck, and checked them with the meter about once a week. The piss water got sort of ugly and I threw it out two weeks before I poured the others out. .555 was its reading. The other cells stablized to 1.5 there for awhile and then fell to hold 1. for about a month.

I cross checked on a standard AAA 1 volt battery to see if my readings were indeed valid.

I have not yet gotten anything to light up with these cells and if I revive them I will do so with a serial arrangement as shown nicely on the How Stuff Works site and see if I can get a flashlight bulb to actually light.

I've wondered how it was that early success was achieved with the anode and cathode both being copper, as if the screw I used as the connector made up the difference. Turned out as well that the gauge of wire was not so important as I thought, though 600volt wire was stiffer and the bell wire broke sometimes.

Eventually I may try the lead acid battery and wonder how you make lead oxide from lead. I'm looking at fishing lead sinkers as common to work with.

I believe lead oxide is fairly poisonous, this may not be a good idea.....

Vapors produced will also have a degree of toxicity I feel, though I am no chemist or expert on poisons.....checkup first!!

Thanks, as said that experiment is a bit down the road. I try not to even touch plain old lead without gloves on as it is. I'll look lead oxide up and give a report.

Though the contest was to make a cell started by Del, I'd like to hear of Vermin or somebody getting together a system that gave at the least some light. A little LED I bought that was supposed to run off a volt, failed to light up when off my favorite cell I alligator clipped to the contacts. Then I read on the package label that the LED was designed for an alkaline battery.

I have not yet come to know how that would make my cell deficient so as to not cause the LED to glow.

A very general rule of thumb is .7 V @ 20 ma will light an LED. There are LEDs that run on less but you have to make a point of finding them.

A very general rule of thumb is .7 V @ 20 ma will light an LED

Jaguar, I know that this is an old thread, but hopefully you are still subscribed. Are you sure that 0.7 V suffices to power an LED? From what I've seen working with red LEDs, you need at least about 1.5 volts minimum.

I'm going on the idea that the voltage drop across a silicon junction is .7 volts. Any remaining voltage goes to into the output. Granted lumen level at .8 volts is low, maybe imperceptible, but there is an output. Adjusting the voltage (really the mA flow) to obtain an arbitrarily acceptable lumen level without going over current specification is what's necessary. Depending on ambient light, this could be very low.

Thank you -- I understand now. And the color of the LED is the other relevant detail not yet mentioned. Red LEDs require lower voltage than do green LEDs, which in turn require less voltage than white LEDs (the shorter the wavelength, the greater the energy of a photon, the greater the needed voltage). I mention all of this because in the past I have used LEDs as "standard loads" for testing of experimental galvanic cells.

Lead-acid batteries, sulphate the lead as the discharge. When recharged, the sulphur is driven back into the H₂SO₄, leaving lead which is micro-etched, which greatly increases surface area.

We all know how these work. What we want is a new battery technology... Like, 18th Century pocket-fox urine plus thalamine blue used by 15th Century painters!!

Where am I going here? I haven't got a clue.