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Split Phase Challenge

10/21/2007 12:19 AM

Lets assume that I have an electrical emergency and there is a washing machine that works on 220v single phase that I would like to power up using 120v single phase.

Now how could I do this with just one hot and one nuetral ?

That is using only basic components and no fancy gadgets.

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#1

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/21/2007 4:09 AM

I don't think you can do it at all. You'd have to produce more voltage out of thin air. This doesn't seem to be a phasing question. Where does the phasing come into it?

If you were going the other way, say using the washing machine outlet to power the lower voltage outlet, you could just take half of it off by using either [e.g. the red or black] power side of the 220 together with its neutral and you'd have a functioning 110 supply with the benefit of a high amp cutout (breaker/fuse) for heavier use on the low voltage outlet (eg air conditioner, several microwaves, etc). Be sure the wiring you use to take off the 110 is rated for the higher amperage so it doesn't overheat and cause a fire when the initial drag that might be placed on it turns out to be a high one. This procedure is not recommended for tiny consumers because it will admit surges to the machinery on the low voltage outlet.

Your questions actually worry me about what you seem to be trying to do without the benefit of the knowledge or experience necessary to be doing them. Isn't there SOMEbody you can ask to do it for you while you watch and learn?

Mark

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#2

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/21/2007 6:05 AM

Ok I guess I made the statement a bit difficult.

How can I create the two L1 and L2 lines to power a 2 phase motor ( i.e. 220v ) from one phase ?

Any ideas ?

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/21/2007 11:55 PM

Voltage and phase have nothing to do with each other. The simplest solution is to buy a washing machine that will work on your currently available electric service. If you are interested in learning, and have access to a good public library, check out Electricity 1-7 by Harry Mileaf. Although it was first published in 1966, it is among the very best introductory texts for people who know nothing about electricity, and could save you time, trouble, expense, frustration, and might even save your life.

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 2:56 AM

Watdefak asked: How can I create the two L1 and L2 lines to power a 2 phase motor ( i.e. 220v ) from one phase ?

Original question stated a washing machine that works on 220v single phase that would be powered up using 120v single phase.

Now which is it?? one phase or two? L1 and L2 refer to a 220V system as used in N. America. But its not two phase.

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#16
In reply to #6

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/29/2007 3:28 AM

IT ISN'T??

I believe that in house wiring, we have red and black hot wires which are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. To run 110 v. appliances, we can use either red or black wires to neutral. To run 220v, we run from red to black, and the neutral is not used.

I learned (on CR4) several months ago that in Canada, kitchen duplex outlets are run with red to one outlet (lets say top) and black to the other (bottom) outlet. At the breaker box, the two breakers (for each side) are ganged together so that if one breaker goes, the other one goes too.

This allows a person to rig a cord with two 110v. plugs to run 220v equipment (typically imported). One each to top and bottom of the outlet.

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#3

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/21/2007 3:52 PM

Use a step up transformer. Attach the 110V single phase to the primary, use the secondary side (with center tap as neutral) at 220v to power the machine.

Take care in calculating your wattage/current requirements. Whatever the amp load is on the seconday side, the primary side will be doubled.

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#5

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 2:49 AM

Use a step up transformer. 120V in 220V out. Just make sure the KVA rating of the tranformer is sufficient for the load.

From your questions now and elsewhere it sounds as if you are trying to cobble together an off grid or grid backup electrical system. The scary part is you really need a lot more back ground knowledge to acomplish building such a system, than your questions suggest you have at present.

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#7

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 8:04 AM

Run a leg through a big enough capacitor bank?

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#8

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 9:15 AM

transformer

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#9

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 4:05 PM

Step up transformer is the answer , you didn`t mention line frequency , is it 50Hz/60Hz , washing machine consume approx 800w of power , be very perticular about power rating of your gadget

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#10

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 6:38 PM

Watdef** asked ' How can i create the two L1 & L2 lines to power 2phase motor (i.e 220v) from one phase?' Please analyz da question i.e 2 lines(phases L1 & L2) from a single phase line.Think about the phase displacement.

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#11

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 9:07 PM

A capacitor bank ..... That is simple.

the capacitors will cause the voltage to lag the source voltage. But would this somehow "create" another phase ?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 9:39 PM

I think by a 1/4 phase, so maybe 180v. Enough for an emergency.

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#13

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/22/2007 10:35 PM

LOL, so much misinformation...

You have SINGLE PHASE in both cases, never "2 phase", which is an entirely different beast and very very rare. Please don't call it that, there are semantics police in this forum who will hijack this thread for days trying to deal with that issue without answering your question. Move on...

Capacitors will NOT work. Holy smokes, what a concept! Where is the power to charge the capacitors going to come from??? Answer, the same 120V grounded neutral 1 phase source you already have! All it will do is discharge to the grounded side of the 120V supply. Sheesh people....

As others have said, just hook up a 2:1 transformer to your 120V circuit that transforms the 120V to 240V and you are done. The center tap for a new neutral may be an issue as mentioned above, because some of your appliance controls may be 120V anyway and now you would need to re-create that grounded neutral reference point. But just look at your existing appliance plug. If they did not have a neutral connection now, then you don't need one. In other words, if what you have now is a plug with 3 blades (L1, L2 and G), then you do NOT have or need a center tap for a neutral connection; your appliance isn't using it now. If you have a 4 prong plug then you do have a neutral and you will need one again when you use your 120V supply.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/27/2007 1:24 AM

Ok. So waddya think, guys...? You jump the voltage up to 220 via a transformer. Will the washing machine work?

Mark

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/27/2007 3:26 AM

Of course it will. I'm doing exactly that right now with some 220V equipment we built for European use. I purchased a small 2:1 ratio transformer to give me the required 240v from a 120V line. Many travellers to/from Asia also get voltage transformers to convert the local voltage to suit their equipment. It works as long as frequency is not an issue.

In the original question the issue seems to be voltage only and the local grid is stil supplying the same frequency at 120V.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/29/2007 3:48 AM

Me too...

A transformer is the safest way to go. Although, run a "ground" around the transformer so the user doesn't get electrocuted.

Bill

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Split Phase Challenge

10/29/2007 7:27 AM

You don't have a risk of electrocution when on the secondary of the transformer. This is why most hotels and motels had those special isolated " razor only" outlets next to the sink. The transformer provides the necessary isolation.

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Anonymous Poster (1); Bill (1); elnav (4); JRaef (1); Kilowatt0 (1); MarkTheHandyman (2); NoSciFi (2); olivinak (1); Sciesis2 (2); vikas (1); watdefak (2)

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