Making Copper Paint at Home

No need there is copper paint that exists already for coating the bottom of boats....have used this several times....

http://www.coppercoatusa.com/

Thanks, but I'm aware of that. I'm trying to make something that has the same effect as this but which can be produced, and deployed faster. Make use of the population sitting at home.

I don't see how you can make something faster than something that has already been made....? Besides the toxic copper effect is not instantaneous, it takes time....so you just might as well use a spray disinfectant...

..." On copper surfaces, like a drawer handle, the virus can last up to four hours"...

ref...

I'm well researched on this. Here's a link to the study. If I'm reading that graph right, then copper also kills it off at a much steeper rate.

-At some point people will have to go back to work.
-In the real world not everyone will sanitize, or wash their hands after every surface they touch.
-Even if they wanted to it would cost them, a lot to time, and money, and the supplies are running out.

That hardly matters if the surface is being contaminated more than once every 4 hours...it would be constantly contaminated....With a disinfectant not so...

Copper infused ..on the exterior.. rubber gloves.

Copper infused gloves....

This is not a replacement for disinfectant. It's something that helps, and it only has to be applied once. They clean all the time in hospitals, but still 50-100k people die per year in the US because of hospital acquired infections. There's multiple studies on the effects of adding copper in hospitals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYl8_BX6--Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ4seVc7V1Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sws8MrfVUNg&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su4WY3_k38Y&feature=emb_logo

I'm not against it, I just don't think it's cost effective....How many hospitals do you see with all copper door hardware and bathroom fixtures....it's cheaper to just go with no touch doors...the most bang for your buck is no-touch technology...

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/environmental-hygiene/touch-free-technology-combats-germs-hospital-washroom

A no touch device, as a replacement for an existing device, isn't going to be cheaper, then coating the existing device with a thin layer of copper. During a pandemic there's no time for that, but anyone can paint, or apply copper tape.

SE, how many hospitals are there with copper,,, ?

..."Copper-containing metals like brass have antibacterial properties—a selling point for brass doorknobs, sink handles, and other fixtures in hospitals and schools. But now, British scientists have found that handling those fixtures can actually disable their germ-killing powers.

According to University of Leicester forensic scientist John Bond, human sweat forms a corrosive layer on the metal surface. That blocks an exchange of charged particles that would otherwise kill harmful bacteria. And the fixtures that are handled the most would be the most affected.

Bond:
The more often it’s touched, you’re replenishing and indeed concentrating the active ingredient in sweat that corrodes the metal, which is just salt.

So even if an institution has germ-resistant copper fixtures, they still need to clean them and encouraging frequent hand-washing. I’m Bob Hirshon for AAAS, the Science Society."...

http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/antibacterial-doorknobs/

UV light robots much better...

https://www.designboom.com/technology/uvd-robots-disinfect-hospital-rooms-uv-light-03-21-2020/

https://mashable.com/video/ultraviolet-robot-hospital-disinfection-coronavirus/

The copper would still be cleaned. UV light robots could not be deployed quickly, and would not be used by all businesses.

I think they soon will be used everywhere....

Would sanding after the paint dries expose the copper?

Don't forget copper over a small amount is toxic to humans as well....

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp132-c2.pdf

Yes, but to what extent? It will be nothing like a copper surface, at a very rough guess you will get a maximum of 50% exposed area coverage, more likely in the 20- 30% range. So you'll be going to a lot of work and still not have a comprehensive effect.

Copper Medical seems to be getting a big effect with copper infused clothing. The clothing is made with a mix of copper, and other fabric threads, so it's probably not a 100% copper surface.

"Our fabric blend includes: Copper 15%, Spandex 7%, Polyester 36%, and Viscose 42%"

Copper also exhibits a "halo effect" I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that this is because copper particles rub off, or gases off of the copper, and spread to the surroundings.

Sounds like a sales gimmick to me....If the copper is not directly in contact with the bacteria it's useless....

As I troll through many of the comments in this thread I am astonished at how many of them are not based on common sense or the unstated parameters of the original question.

For example, copper paint:

It is readily available, in fact it usually takes less than 5 minutes to produce some of the finest in the world. Go to a marine supply store and get a quart or gallon or 5 gallon pail oFf the shelf. Go to the cashier and put your money down. (Caution- this stuff is no longer $6/quart).

Copper bottom paint is tough. Its tough enough to kill those nasty barnacles. One problem though it is nasty to human skin and internal organs. Always wear a air purifying respirator, APR, when applying it. READ ALL CAUTIONS ON THE CAN BEFORE YOU BUY IT. Wear at least Tyvek jump suits when applying it. There are several other nasty things about it! You will be surprised if you look up what some of the organs are that are adversely effected. It might bring tears to your eyes.

My knowledge of copper bottom paints are based on academic and most importantly many years under the hulls of boats with cotton, a caulking iron, caulking, paintbrushes, appropriate PPE and either red or blue paint.

Sanding of copper paint, either commercial or home-made will not help the killing properties. You will be sanding off some of the material that is providing the killing properties. Less paint --> less killing power.

Around the end of the last century regulatory agencies here in the USA put some hefty restrictions on copper based paint because of some of its bad effects on people and the environment.

Home made or recklessly made paint will not have a small enough particle size of copper. An allegory to this is would children's play sand be called micro-fine silicone dioxide?

UV light takes so long to do its job. When it is used, no matter what the wavelength is it takes much longer than other methods. Don't ever look at it without protective goggles. Real nice way to go blind since it kills eyes even better than the things you are trying to get rid of.

Ozone is good but also takes time to be successful. It also has some nasty side effects to materials you don't want to happen. Has anyone on this thread ever worked with it? There was a good reason why the French decided not to pursue more research during the 60's.

These are all examples of when you want a good answer you have to give a good question. State ALL the facts, all the investigative failures and successes, compose the question so it makes sense, states what you really want to know and don't hide anything that might get you answers that are more pertinent and knowledgeable.

Sometimes these questions and answers remind me of many years ago of when my mothers would ask me questions such as:

Mom- "Where did you go?"

Me- "Out"

Mom- "What did you do?"

Me- "Nothing"

Mom- "Who did you do it with?"

Me- "Oh, just some guys." alternate answer- "Nobody"

GOOD LUCK, OLD SALT

you mix it in the paint as a thinner. It won't be buried as it is probably lighter than the titanium oxide color.

There is an alternative and that is copper plating with copper strip, copper sulphate solution and a small current.

To do non conductive surfaces then a coating of carbon provides the necessary conductive layer to allow the copper to plate onto the object but really the whole process is not practical when plastic gloves will be more cost effective.

C

I use an ozone generator that emits 5000 g/hr with an adjustable timer to help disinfect my home.

One room at a time.

Must vacate the room while active for at least 30 minutes after the timer turns off.

This allows the ozone (O3) time to revert back to O2.

The air smells fresh like after a thunderstorm,and there is more available oxygen in the air.

Hospitals use this same method to sterilize operating rooms before and after surgery,as time permits.

Insofar as disinfectants, a very low (.5%) sodium hypochlorite (Bleach) is very effective for nearly instant destruction of bacteria and viruses.

Normal strength Clorox is around 5%,so it takes very little to make an effective solution.

Some of the off brand bleaches are much weaker,so read the label.

When all else fails,weigh the bottle.

The higher concentrations will be heavier.

Easy for me to tell when picking them up off the shelf.

Gonna be hard to beat a wipe down with bleach solution.

Good luck with your pursuit.

Be careful with that ozone generator because it will wreak havoc with the rubber drive capstans and belts in your VCR.

And it will prematurely harden the platen on your typewriter.

If the copper sulfate is fully distributed in the paint it will not wear off.

I make mine by mixing a penetrant such as non-hazardous anti-freeze with the copper.. The anti freeze will of course not penetrate metal but serves to

dissolve the copper. I also usually add boric acid for wood. Any paint water or oil base will work

Show me what antifreeze dissolves copper....

One word should have been dispersed instead of dissolved. Ethylene glycol is

what I use with the brew. I have never used it on metal,but see no reason it would not stick. The ethylene glycol itself is an anti-microbial.

In South Korea they're using copper, plastic film to cover buttons in hospitals. There's also a face mask that kills "a" virus in 1 minute. It doesn't specify if it's the covid virus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHeKnDw7d6w

From a comment: Surface exposures are different on a mask or on other applications.

There is a difference between uv-c and far uv-c ...

..."Far-UV disinfection is faster and far more effective than UV-C. ... Physically destroys cells due to its shorter wavelength and higher photon energy than UV-C, which chemically changes bonds and causes mutations that prevent cells from replicating, but does not destroy them."...Oct 24, 2019

..."In a nutshell, UV (wavelength around 222 nanometers) is superior to UV-C (around 254 nm) for disinfection in the following ways:

• More efficient at low dose rates.
• Much faster than UV-C - kills pathogens in seconds vs. minutes
• Higher absorption rate in bacteria and viruses.
• Safer for use around humans because it cannot penetrate skin or eyes.
• Physically destroys cells due to its shorter wavelength and higher photon energy than UV-C, which chemically changes bonds and causes mutations that prevent cells from replicating, but does not destroy them.

It seems strange that a small change in wavelength can make the enormous functional difference between far-UV and UV-C, but dozens of tests by independent labs have demonstrated far-UV's lethality to a wide range of pathogens, including MRSA, VRE, and C. diff spores.

The speed and efficiency of far-UV, as well as its safety for use around humans, make it ideal for hospital disinfection tasks, and have led to a variety of devices that employ Far-UV-C technology.

Tests of far-UV on surfaces have demonstrated that it kills C. difficile spores in seconds versus 45 minutes for UV-C and hours for chemical cleaning. One such case is discussed in the paper Evaluation of a hand-held far-ultraviolet radiation device for decontamination of Clostridium difficile and other healthcare-associated pathogens."...

..."A key advantage of far UV over the UV-C light used in most UV sterilization is that it cannot penetrate human skin or eyes. Far UV's shorter wavelength renders it unable to pass through the barrier of non-living cells on skin, and tears on the surface of the eye. At the same time, that wavelength is what makes it superior in penetrating and inactivating bacteria and viruses. (See the 2018 study Far UV-C light: A new tool to control the spread of airborne-mediated microbial diseases.

In fact, since far-UV light is 10 to 1000 times safer to use around humans than traditional UV-C, it can be used to disinfect a room even when people are present. This makes it practical for daily disinfection tasks. According to the study cited above:

"Based on biophysical considerations and in contrast to the known human health safety issues associated with conventional germicidal 254-nm broad-spectrum UV-C light, far UV-C light does not appear to be cytotoxic to exposed human cells and tissues in vitro or in vivo.""...

https://www.hepacart.com/blog/effective-uv-disinfection-lights-4-benefits-of-far-uv-sterilray

Now we need somebody to make 222nm LED bulbs for handheld rapid disinfection anywhere...any idea's ?? I guess it's not as easy as it sounds...

https://www.google.com/search?q=measure+the+wavelength+of+a+light+source&oq=measuring+the+wavelength+of+a+light+source&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33.21099j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_Kux8Xt7VMIu4sQXd7ZrYBQ28

Positive Pressure - An Idea Whose Time Has Come

This thread further convinces me that we really need to switch from a predominantly negative pressure residential HVAC strategy to a positive pressure strategy. If we capture outside air, filter it coarsely with existing commodity filters, then use Sterilray or some LED source for 222nm light to zap viruses and other pathogens, then blow that clean air into our homes, we could be socially distanced from our neighbors sneezing near our home. As it is with our negative pressure strategy, our exhaust fans suck air through all the small cracks in our homes dragging that viral load right into our bedrooms and kitchens along with humidity, pollen, bugs, and dirt. As human densities increase we really need to rethink some of these traditional practices.

A positive pressure strategy would allow us to convert many appliances from requiring costly dedicated exhaust fans to passive adjustable gates with gravity operated check valves (an inexpensive hanging flap like in many clothes dryer exhaust vents.) The central positive pressure fan could be instrumented to maintain an intentional design point positive pressure with alerts for out of spec readings exceeding some timeout value and combustion appliances could shut down if periodic "in-spec operation" signals are absent or if their check valve flap closes during combustion.

____________

thewildotter

All AC systems in Florida require fresh air intake into the makeup air already....as far as having a uv-c 222nm light source next to the evaporator coil, I think it should be a requirement by code...mold, mildew, fungus of all kinds, are responsible for respiratory illnesses for more families than is realized...

to SE,

While I think we should use 222nm sources treating input air and evaporator coil surfaces, I would prefer that code encourage it rather than require it. Your point about ubiquitous respiratory stress on families is, profound and a point with which I am in complete agreement. Still, I would like to point out that requiring fresh air intake into the makeup air, while a step in the right direction, is still short of intentionally running a positive pressure system. Ventilation fans that suck air out of a house is still the rule rather than merely the occasional exception. Typically, your stove hood, your clothes dryer, your hot water heater, your furnace, your powered and even some of your passive attic ventilators all suck air from your home resulting in humid, contaminated air being sucked into your home through all the myriad ill-fitting seams of its envelope.

to Everyone,

As these various sucking devices each activate and deactivate the infiltrating air oscillates. This oscillation is quite effective in a pulsed introduction of undesirable contaminants under our baseboards and around our electrical outlets with great certainty regardless of how carefully we have caulked since negative pressure will seek out the weakest link just like br'er rabbit's tar baby always assaulted our poor rabbit exactly where he was not looking. Explicitly positive pressure has been used for reactor envelopes to avoid introducing contaminants into the reactor neutron flux for at least the half century I have been observing. I judge that the infrastructure for residential positive pressure, with technological advancement and its associated improved economies have shifted the costs such that, except for traditional practice inertia, the superior positive pressure strategy could, once embraced, actually be cheaper than our current negative pressure backwardness. Personally, I have even had to build boxes to invert powered commodity fan ventilators so that I could filter that input to my envelope and allow it to blow out my passive vents as well as out all of the unintentional seams in my envelope. That inexpensive powered ventilators nearly uniformly expect to suck air out of a house leads me to the inescapable conclusion that current practice sucks both literally and figuratively. Since it is a long-term traditional practice I am not surprised that most observers are inclined to discount my opinion with the argument that "ten trillion flies can't be wrong, live in garbage air." Thanks to SE who points out that FL code requires injecting SOME fresh air into their HVAC systems. Is that the twinkle of distant light in the tunnel at the end of the HVAC dark ages?,.... maybe.

_______________

thewildotter

Here is a recent new method to kill viruses:Stab them to death.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/2020/03/10/kill-coronavirus-with-microscopic-spikes-port-tampa-bay-says-yes/

Seems like a great idea if it really works.

Coat everything in hospitals and all public access areas with it.

Of course,knowing the survive ability of viruses,they will soon develop armor plating to resist being skewered.

Apparently salt also stabs them to death.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mask-coated-in-salt-neutralizes-viruses-like-coronavirus-2020-2

There's also some vids out there where they're using salt in cloth to cover surfaces.

Copper paint is readily available commercially and an internet search will reveal a number of retail options by post or courier in this social-distancing era.