Remove Rust From Hex Bolt

Ever head of C.O.P.Q.? This is called Cost of Poor Quality and that is what Kilowatt0 is talking about. You can cover it up now but it will come back to you in future. Being in Q.A. it is your job to identify Non-Conformance issues and address them. Addressing the rust problem with your supplier can actually help uncover quality inconsistences in his manufaturing or storage practices and this will then lead to Quality improvement.

Hope this helps.

Simba

I think you nailed it Kilowatt0 ! The plant should not be fixing Supplier issues, because it will bite you down the road. As the QA you need to do what's right, not accept the parts and HOPE there are no future issues.

Good Luck & Stand Strong

Previous posts nailed it, however, if you want to try to clean one bolt, soak it for at least 24 hours in white vinegar.

I found a wrench that was a blob of rust, unrecognizable. I threw it in some white vinegar and a few days later, it was shiny new except for deep pits from the cancer but the rust was gone!

The only way, I believe, that that could happen, is buying from an auction.

Congrats!!

Your answer is perfect!!

The galvanized bolts were dipped in cleaners including acid before the galvanizing process, rinsed and then they must be dried before storage. If the galvanizing is not correctly applied or is too thin a coating you can quickly have problems.

Galvanizing does not want to be wet in storage or in use.

Is the rust a stain from the container the bolts were stored in?

If the rust is on the bolts, then start over by removing the galvanizing and replating the bolts and properly dry and store the bolts.

Not sure exactly, but i've been in this business 45 year and never had seen a rusted cap screw. Anyway the environment must be improved.

Your opinions on a given situation should not be taken as science, however you make some good points

Valid point - albeit the opinion was not devoid of "science" - or of insider perspective - nor were other responses based exclusively on science - nor in all cases must they be - nor did science, of necessity, appear to be only, if at all, what Guest Questioner (GQ) was seeking.

The thing that struck me about GQ's question - apart from his wanting to avoid a required process - was the rationale: which seemed more in line with what one might see in a production activity, not at the QA level. A main thrust of my points was that GQ might not be recognizing a more fitting/appropriate "QA rationale," from both logistical/business and scientific/statistical points of view, for the action he is pondering. (That rationale being that following the standard process would be inconvenient, and better avoided--instead of a "scientific" one consistent with QA principles/methodology.) This is not to say that "treating" a bolt might not be "acceptable"--that would depend on application criticality (think stress or corrosive environment) and/or circumstances not disclosed by GQ--but it could be that evaluating and implementing a "rust treatment" (on one part if I understood correctly) could entail as much "inconvenience" as following the standard process.

I also considered that GQ might simply be carrying out an assignment, by a superior who seeks to accommodate another department while not making unacceptable compromise vis-a-vis the final customer (it could also be, that final customer is already involved in the decision making, whether or not that is known to GQ). If such (GQ's acting in a support role) is the case, GQ should find my suggestions, among all the others', to be satisfactory.

Hope this satisfies, tubenut, and thanks for the comment.

There is a product from Jasco. It is called prime and prep. It chemically converts the rust. Ive used it many times and it works wonders.

A galvanized Bolt surely should never rust? If it did, something is wrong, quaöity for one, this could also mean that in a situation where extreme strength is also a requirement, it could fail and someone could get injured or killed. It might be of the wrong tensile strength as well is what I am trying to say.......or be a "recovered" bolt that has already ended it's life elsewhere.....such bolts have brought aircraft with a full passenger load, out of the sky VERY ABRUPTLY!!!

Talk to your Boss, let him take the decision, not you!!! Get it put down on paper or logged in some way.....

Hi Andy, am I to assume that when you say that "a galvanized bolt should never rust," you mean under general atmospheric corrosion, because I have seen some extremely horrific examples of corrosion of galvanised components.

If this is the case I certainly agree with your other comments.

If is to be allowed to rust, why pay for galvanisation ???

Maybe the guy meant bright zinc or something else. As bolts are bulk packed you can always get some transport damage anyway which would theoretically make rusting a possibility.

Under normal circumstances you are right, galved parts do not rust, EVER.

We are in agreement on that point, but I am a sceptical old Buzzard, and when one point is not correct, I usually find that other points are also not correct either......strength, age, number of uses, you name it!!!!

In construction, almost all bolts (and other metal parts) have to be made rustproof in some way, because that is the only safe way to go...either by coatings or regular maintenance.....

I n part you answered your own point.

have to be made rustproof in some way, because that is the only safe way to go...either by coatings or regular maintenance.....

If rust proofing HAD to be done as that is the only safe way, and it is done to all the parts before fitting we know that, why then is regular maintenance needed afterwards? The answer is because things can go wrong and by prescribing regular maintenance the industry has kind of acknowledged and accepted that no matter what rust proofing you give soemthing, it always will be possible for it to still do so somehow. (nice sentence that)

i read your post and a thought came to mind ;were these products shipped from a supplier who opporates it a country with no regulations?

All talk about this quality is right of course and you should never cover up for bad suppliers EVER!

The problem is however finding a supplier that provides the right quality for the right price nowadays. We use large amounts of small metric bolts and screws and they have to be black. We tried loads in the past and A2 to A4 chemi blacked seemed to come out best but suddenly, out of the blue, they start to have wobbly heads or half threads or length variations. What do you do, you tell the supplier about it and what do they say?

Invariably the production of these bolts or screws has suddenly changed and mostly to do with cost. As an end user or oem you cannot always guarantee where the stuff comes from untill too late. Than we have a cleaning up job on our hands. Nasty.

Don't know what the answer is but I do know it is a big problem all the time and not only with fasteners. You should look at some of the bearings

Don't mean to intrude, but if I could make a point here, although it is not meant for here only...

Some posts seem to paint a paradigm in which there must be inordinate antagonism between a QA function and suppliers--and, by extension, perhaps even between QA and "non-overhead" functions (read: production) within an enterprise. I am not sure I can agree that such a view is representative in manufacturing industries. For one, purchasers need suppliers as much as they are needed; but, that aside...

Given the QA context, the real challenge I found was in accepting the problem situation described by GQ (guest questioner) without a bit of initial incredulity. (Yes, I realize that the sparseness of context information from a "trainee engineer" could have played a role; or that he could merely be fishing for alternatives for implementing a "quick fix" that has already been decided. But the mention of QA, and training, suggest he might also be open to suggestions as to the efficacy or validity of the fix - the rationale - he says he "needs.")

To find--as GQ says is the case--a single defective bolt - or even several - in a lot sample (in other than a very small sample) does not strike me as the kind of event necessarily, or typically, leading to a QC rejection process. By that I mean, rejection of the lot, not just the bolt, because it seems preposterous that any company would want to seen...(you know the rest). I also presume "lot" because that interpretation fits most easily with GQ's explanation that one bolt is somehow critical to...keeping the production line going.

On the other hand, it might be

• That GQ's employer's end product - it would seem to most likely be very high value - is produced in such small numbers, &or with such components, that a single defect....; in which case it might be, that adjustment of the supply contract is needed: say, a contract providing for zero defects and/or for supplier participation in QA at the supplier's front door.
• Or that the end product is to be much better than commercial or consumer grade (perhaps military, manned-space, hospital...), which case argues strongly against using the bolt at all.

Other than something like this, it's quite hard to picture GQ's actual situation and motivation.

And I don't want to reject because quantity

!!!! It is you JOB to reject !!!!

What is the purpose of inspection or test if you are not going to reject?

If some fool at the top of your organisation wants to over-ride you and accept them and put his name on the paperwork then let him be responsible.

Inspectors should be pig headed intranisigent pedants... you may not win popularity prizes ...but that's the job.

You are absolutely right Del but.......he is only a trainee engineer! He was big enough to come out with that to start with so I think we should not scare people out of our field of work. There is no trainee in the world who is going to tell his boss to fuck off the way you or I would, but then we are not trainees and have not been trainees for a long time.

When a person has the experience to properly make his or her argument in the face of a fuming boss who can only see the money, that is the time you grow out of being a trainee and become a full member of the "old cantankerous guard" or old timers who need not listen to the boss. We need not to prove ourselves anymore and that is the difference.

I would advice the person in question to play it by ear but make the implications of a failure clear to all involved and gently states that if it were up to him or her, he or she would not pass them for those reasons BUT because of the money aspect, I have decided to give the final decision to <name of direct manager in line>.

That way you will hopefully stay out of the firing line when things go pear shaped.

Yours truly (many times sacked)

Old hand case491

A full member of the "old cantankerous guard" or old timers who need not listen to the boss. We need not to prove ourselves anymore and that is the difference.

Nicely put.. Ah the joys of being a cantankerous old git.

The old owner of my present company and I had a bit of an argument one day (surely not...argumentative ? Moi?)...I suggested we should discuss it off the premises (meaning, up the pub...away from the 'Boss employee' constraints).

He mistook it for an invitation to 'step outside' and backed down pretty damn quick! Hilarious!!!!

Del

Rock On Pussy, I'm with you!!

Del

You nailed it.

Origional poster.

You need to know clearly what you are responsible for. Are you responsible for making sure the quality is within acceptable levels? Or are you responsible for reporting on the quality that is currently being produced? If you think about it you will realize that the second question describes your job. That is unless you are the manager of the bolts factory, or the manager of the purchasing department.

KW

"Galvanizing" is a proses were the bolt in this case, is submerged in molten zinc for a given period of time and the zinc actually bonds to the steel ... never seen it rust but have seen it fail. If the zinc bath was to cool or the item was withdrawn to soon it will not get a proper bond.But in most of those cases it will appear to bubble or blister and "bleed" rust. Now zinc plated bolts ... the more common variety you find at hardware stores, have a thin shell which is usually electrical or chemically bonded to the steel. Those are subject to some industrial cleaners, strong ammonias and damage exposing the steel to the atmosphere and of course O2.

A good way to clean them is navel jelly works in minutes .... didn't know bout white vinegar bet its cheaper and cleaner.

... never seen it rust but have

NEVER is not a good word to use............try galvanic action ............ try distillate on galvanised parts......truly wonderful !!!!!!!!!

What is it just out of interest?

water heater hook-up?

Good point i stand corrected. I should have been more specific. What i was talking about was inventory. "Unused" items, those not having been put to there designed function as of yet. As for the word NEVER I am a bit of a hypocrite in that, as I am always telling people nothing is impossible.

You answered the question for me! You are a QA eng, and your job is to ensure the parts that are used in your process conform to spec. If the parts don't conform, then they must be rejected! Here, your job ends. It is then upto the QA Manager to either approach the client for a concession for the said part, or approach the production engineering manager for a rectification process that when completed will leave the part within the specification! You job is not to find a cure but to find the fault so to speak, and you have found the fault! Job done, move on to the next!

Schaeffer Oil (216-401-1845) has a product called Rustender. If the parts are soaked in this product, all rust/oxidation will be removed within a few hours. When the product is spent, it can be flushed down the drain. It is not acidic or caustic, and is very inexpensive.

When your products come in, and they need to be stored in a corrosive environment, Schaeffer also has a product called Rustop. This product was designed for saltwater environments.

I agree with kilowatto!

I maybe late in this conversation and the topic is old but what size bolt is it?

What is the quantity of the bolts in came in?

If it's just one bolt out of a box of 500 and it's a 3/8" x 1, then just throw it away.

You being QA, are you doing things statistically for your samples or are you just inspecting?

Because statistically, they take a sample of maybe 1 out of 100 and examine it. If they find one then they will examine more from that batch.

I do the QA for my company. We sometimes get things like pins that are 10" long with divits placed at a certain point to hold onto plastic that is being molded onto it. They have to be in the right location within 0.01" tolerance or it is wrong and can't be used because the plastic won't grab it. We get boxes of these by the 1000's, if I find 6 per 100 I will reject the batch because the suppliers weren't paying attention.

Bolts are different. Galvanization is tricky because if there is anything foreign on the piece the galvanizing might "fish eye" and can easily be overlooked.

If the discovery was sometime after receiving, maybe the galvanizing was worn during shipping that left a portion exposed.

Bottom line is you just throw it away. The cost for one bolt is not worth the time spent on making a command decision. Galvanization is done by the pound so the cost of one bolt won't be missed.