Previous in Forum: Contact Tracing Implications   Next in Forum: Cast Iron Cylinder Leak Koken Chair
Close
Close
Close
23 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
Posts: 50

FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/10/2020 5:59 PM

Our Project has currently selected 6 inch PVC-U conduit (internal dia 150mm) which has 12 sub-conduits (1inch each, external dia 31mm) at 90 degree angle entry into the building and a bending radius of 914mm.

The FOC we have selected (24 core and 48 core) with Maximum pulling force / Tensile strength = 2700 Newton, Cable outside diameter, nominal = 16.50mm and Cable weight, approx = 302kg/km, Minimum bending radius: - Under maximum tension = 20 x Cable O.D.

I would like to calculate if this FOC shall be safe to pull within the subduct at 90 degrees as mentioned. I have been trying to get online calculation software for FOC but to no avail.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#1

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 1:33 AM

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#2

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 3:42 AM
__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#3

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 4:26 AM
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#12
In reply to #3

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 11:10 AM

Fiber Optic Cable

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#4

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 4:34 AM

A simple telephone call to the <...FOC...> supplier will answer many questions, because some things do not respond to calculation; the "slipperiness" or state of lubrication of the <...FOC...> and the inside of the <...6 inch PVC-U conduit (internal dia 150mm) which has 12 sub-conduits (1inch each, external dia 31mm) at 90 degree angle entry into the building and a bending radius of 914mm...> being singular to this particular installation.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2181
Good Answers: 255
#5

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 5:37 AM

Hello,

Not my expertise, but there will be another force to consider and that will be the sequential deformation of the cable as it passes through the bend area. This will highly dependant on the individual cable configuration.

Imagine the effort required if the cable was a single solid core.

As others have suggested, contact the cable manufacturer for their support.

__________________
Just an Engineer from the land down under.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#6

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 7:16 AM

<...Tensile strength = 2700 Newton...>1/4 tonne.

So it would take a pulling machine to break it. A human is usually not capable of providing this force without some mechanical contraption.

The firm installing the <...FOC...> would be able to advise.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#7
In reply to #6

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 7:17 AM

(not an endorsement)

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#9
In reply to #7

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 7:42 AM

Do not use WD-40, baby oil, grease, vasoline,etc, as these materials can deteriorate the insulation over time. ...use proper wire lube....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#10
In reply to #9

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 9:18 AM

?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#11
In reply to #10

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 11:08 AM
__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#16
In reply to #11

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/12/2020 3:41 AM

?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#14
In reply to #10

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 10:45 PM

Field installers who use this sometimes call it "boy butter".

"Pulling soap" is also a common term.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1071
Good Answers: 92
#13
In reply to #9

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 10:19 PM

...yellow 77.

And a tugger. Oops- that might exceed the 1/4 tonne pull mentioned earlier.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2018
Location: Under the spreading Bunya Trees, South Burnett, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 809
Good Answers: 65
#15
In reply to #13

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 11:21 PM

Talc will do a great job of lubricating the cables.

Beware the twang factor, if the cables go twang you have overdone the pulling.

To get technical you could use a Force Gauge connected to your pulling device to ensure you do not exceed the maximum allowable value.

__________________
Hare today, goon tomorrow!
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#8

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/11/2020 7:31 AM
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5826
Good Answers: 322
#17

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/12/2020 7:30 AM

Just a thought: it would probably be a lot easier to pull the fibre straight into the sub-conduits, then, pull the sub-conduits into the main conduit.

__________________
If you spend all your time looking for people and things to complain about: trust me, you will find plenty to complain about.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#18
In reply to #17

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/12/2020 10:20 AM

I would use something like this for the offshoots...

...split the wire off while installing the fitting...

...then into a 45°...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Land of Shining Waters
Posts: 916
Good Answers: 35
#19
In reply to #18

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/12/2020 4:06 PM

The first image looks suspiciously like a plumbing fitting. I have never seen an electrical conduit fitting like that. The advice to "split off the wire while installing the fitting" would not fly here in Canada. Rule 12-938 states that raceways (conduits) shall be installed as a complete system before the conductors or cables are installed in them. It has always seemed an odd rule to me (and who is going to know unless the inspector shows up at the time), but there it is. I suppose it is to prevent partially installed conductors/cables lying around and being damaged by construction activity, but surely with care and good sense this needn't be a risk. Nevertheless, the rule is there, and no exceptions to it are given.

__________________
It is easier to let the cat out of the bag than to put the cat back in the bag.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#20
In reply to #19

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/12/2020 5:03 PM

Yeah, I don't think that is electrical, it's just the first picture I found that illustrated what I wanted...Yeah that's probably a rule here as well...in which case you would need junction boxes at every branch....I was just thinking of an alternative method under extenuating circumstances...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#21
In reply to #20

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/15/2020 7:05 AM

That's an awful lot of calculation.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi
Posts: 50
#22
In reply to #21

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

06/25/2020 6:07 AM

any software or calculation sheet available on net? any ideas?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#23

Re: FOC Pulling Force Calculation from UPVC Conduit

03/02/2021 8:47 AM

All turns in fiber optic cable should be done at junction boxes only...no elbows or bends allowed.

Be certain to use only PVC CONDUIT,not PVC plumbing pipe.

The couplings and interior are designed differently to prevent damage to the cables.

There are many specialized tools required when pulling long runs of fiber cable,such as this:

There are many other specialized tools and equipment as well.

This is not a job for a beginner,or ad-hoc designed methods.

My advice: Hire a professional with experience in this field.

Most Prime Contractors require a performance bond certificate from sub-contractors,usually in the $$millions.

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 23 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); canadianslidewinder (1); HiTekRedNek (1); JNB (1); Just an Engineer (1); PWSlack (6); Randall (1); SolarEagle (7); Stef (1); Tornado (1); Usman Nazar Rathore (1)

Previous in Forum: Contact Tracing Implications   Next in Forum: Cast Iron Cylinder Leak Koken Chair

Advertisement