Bobcat Fire

I'll start the conversation by saying that I feel bad for the OP. He planned for his retirement, he used realistic figures, he has been pretty frugal and saved his money, he invested wisely ... well, the second time he did. He worked hard and kept investing - making his money work for him. His mortgages are reasonable and he's on track to pay them to $0 by the time he retires.

The propositions on this falls ballot include putting an end to Prop 13 - the old proposition that limits increases in assessed values, which keeps property taxes from going up fast. Another proposition is to give more control of rent control to cities. The state has a 5% + inflation per year rent increase and Prop 21 will restrict it further. I own rental property and I'm thinking of selling, due to both the Federal Gov't and our State Gov't telling my tenants they don't have to pay rent. This is one of the Covid rules, even though my tenants were enjoying an extra $600/week in UI benefits. Sure, rent has accrued, but there's no way for me to collect. I can and will evict, but how do I collect the monetary judgement? And if gets over $10K, it's no longer a small claims matter and I have to hire an attorney (to collect). Nobody has helped pay the missing rent, yet they can dictate if my tenants should be paying. This alone has made me realize that rental properties now come with a huge financial flaw - the gov't can tell my tenants not to pay, while not helping me by sending the missing rent payments to me. I'd feel much better if the gov't became the middleman and they collected (or deferred) the rent from my tenants, but they continued to pay me - sort of a Section 8 type system. I'm good with that.

The solution looks more and more like the OP needs to leave the state and start building his empire. Find a state that has politicians who look out for local businesses and property owners.

My gut feeling is that my tenants will move out before the court tells them they have to leave. Here in LA County, the judge will throw out the eviction case if the tenant moves before the court date - no need to hear the eviction case, since they're already gone. The tenant has a clean record and does the same to the next landlord.

A smart landlord will check court records to see if the potential tenant has been sued for an unlawful detainer - eviction in CA terms. If I see one, then the tenant can't move in. It's one of my rules.

When landlords are allowed to evict, I think we're going to see a lot of people run out without paying the back rent. Landlords may decide to call it quits - an oversupply of homes may hit the market and prices will be headed down.

When I was going to college, I stayed at a small complex, that consisted of (4) quad apartment buildings,

in there were tenants, the owner landlord was too empathetic And was new at being a landlord, that the tenants took advantage of, with excuses. He carried them for 4-5 months, I told the land lord they’re playing him until October. He asked why October?, I told him in Wisconsin, because of the winters here in Wisconsin, you can’t evict your tenants until April when the weather warms up.
He didn't believe people would do that.

Well October came, and the excuses stopped, and instead these tenants just said they were’t going to pay rent.

April came, and the day he was going to serve them the eviction notice, they not only already left, they trashed the place, where Painting repairs and new carpeting was needed.

and for the cherry, they left a receipt for a new leather jacket that was just bought on a table to show the landlord they did have money. They had at about 10 months Of rent free living.

I never mentioned to him of I told you so, because this landlord was a decent guy, but he did say, he should have listened to me.

Poor guy! Did he keep the properties or throw in the towel?

My first experience with tenants was in 1989. We let a friend (who was a real estate agent) be the landlord. He didn't check the local law and told us the best way to make money was to rent out each room to a different person. I was busy with work, grad school, girlfriend, new house and business, so I assumed he was knowledgeable. Hah! The local law doesn't allow a single family home to be divided and rented out as single rooms. One gal he let in was his "ho" - I think that's what they call her. He let her in with one week rent and no deposit. She never paid another cent and one day she came into our store pleading for us not to evict her. She brought her young daughter with her - to show us that she had a daughter. She had crazy parties, wrecked the house, chased away the other tenants and when we finally got her out, we had nearly lost the place. Two mortgages, business expenses, tuition, exc. Five months free rent, wrecked house and we got lucky that she left - the DA worked with us and came up with an agreement for both sides. At first, he thought we were slum lords, but when he met the defendant, he understood and worked hard to help us.

Big lesson for us and in the 31 years since, we've become much smarter - though we had no idea the government would tell our tenants not to pay rent. I just learned that the government can do whatever it likes and I have absolutely no say in the matter. No favors to call in either! This is why I'm thinking of exiting the property rental business.

No, he kept it,... and added to it... at the time, I was managing the complex (maintenance, tenant gripes and repairs, and safety).

He gave me a break on my rent, and reimbursed me for any maintenance material costs. (As far as my time,... it wasn’t worth it, I did it because I enjoyed the work) he realized that, and appreciated it. Maybe I set the bar too high on expectations on tenants.

the good part,... i moved on after college, and I haven’t Has contact with him in over 20 years,... he contacted me about a year ago... and he’s still a nice guy... there are some that take advantage of him, but he’s better situated and prepared to deal with it.

As far as your multiple tenants with a single family home, yes, I recently experienced the same, with an industrial building rental that was breaking it up into suites,... every thing has to be separate such as utilities ect... it was nothing spectacular,... I just followed the ordinances as I uncovered them. And I developed a great relationship with the local government committees.

Learning about city ordinances and county rules can be overwhelming at times. When the city is unincorporated, the county rules apply. We have CSD's (Community Standards Districts) in LA County. Local governments (town councils) can petition the county to add or delete rules specifically for their area. We had some CSD's that applied only to us and didn't apply to the rest of the county. I recall a very interesting one about cell towers. A cell tower must resemble a tree - that's what it said. When the cell phone company wanted to put a cell tower next door to a neighbor's home, we fought it. The county supported us, because the cell company only read the county rules and not our CSD. When the time came for our hearing, we used the CSD as a reason why they shouldn't be able to erect their cell tower. They made the mistake of building it in the form of a barn.

All we wanted was for them to build it in the hills, away from homes. The cell company didn't want that, because the would have to build a road or buy the right of way. Then they'd have to run electricity and water to the site. Too much money compared to using an empty piece of land next door to a home.

Truth in comedy..

Maybe there's an answer here.

It's crazy all over if it's any help.

I like this down to Earth commentary.

He forgot to mention the best way to increase the average IQ in Detroit and California is to move everyone from Detroit to California.

Or maybe vice versa?

Error Error!

OOPS!

Strike Detroit,insert Chicago,or your city or person of choice.

Aren't there many such fires out there in (Taxefornia) these days, most typically started by ''lightning strikes''?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't there first be a thunderstorm before there is a lightning strike?

Thus, I have to ask that, if there were approximately ''n'' lightning strikes causing approximately ''n'' fires, then shouldn't there have been approximately ''n'' corresponding thunderstorms causing those ''n'' lightning strikes?

Has anybody checked on that relationship?...

Can the former P(acific) G(as) & E(xtortion, as they were once-upon-a-time referred to) be held accountable for the costs of acts-of-nature such as lightning strikes, in addition to equipment failures, negligence, faulty maintenance, etc.?

I’ve heard about lighting strikes on a clear day. As it turned out lightening does not come straight down.

PGE walked away without having the shareholders lose all their equity. They were in bankruptcy, but the governor came to the rescue and forced the bond holder to take a hit. Since when does a governor have the right to interfere with private business matters?

The Bobcat Fire was started by faulty SCE lines (that's what they believe). No lightning, just faulty equipment.

And the previous fire in Azusa was started by a fight in a homeless encampment. One guy (prior felon) got in a fight with another homeless man and set his stuff on fire. This was about a month before the Bobcat Fire.

And there was also a fire near Riverside that was started by a gender reveal party, where someone lit of fireworks and started the El Dorado Fire. Fireworks are illegal in Riverside County.

I'm not sure how the recent Napa Valley fire started, but my business partner is up there and he told me the air is terrible.

It says a lot when Florida continues to finance recoveries from hurricanes, year after year after year, but Califrenia's San Francisco relies on volunteers to clean up waste off its' public streets...

GA from me.

Our folks in Sacramento have drained the coffers. Now we need the money and it's gone! +$19B to - $54B in one year. That's unacceptable!

Do to circumstances, they may lift the mandate restriction on fossil fuels.

also keep in mind, it’s not only fossil fuel problems California has, it also has a poor source of potable water. Or even water as a whole.

Hey Phoenix. Don't laugh, but the reason our governor is stopping the sale of ICE vehicles after 2035 is ... yes, this is what he really said ... ready??? It's so he can stop Global Warming.

I just pulled this from the internet. It would be funny if it were a joke, but they're serious. https://napavalleyregister.com/opinion/editorial/five-solutions-to-california-s-climate-crisis-gov-newsom-should-implement-right-now/article_d61278f2-1ed8-5f23-991f-911ead97565f.html

I’m not laughing, only shaking my head...

I’ll tell you this,... the fires have cause very colorful sunsets here in Northeast Wisconsin.

Wow, all the way to Wisconsin!

Northeast Wisconsin? Near UP Michigan?

Yep,.., a friend of mine Which lives in Manitowoc, Wisconsin posted a picture of the sunset.

when the smoke gets into the upper atmosphere, it catches the jet stream. Then again, it could be the fires on this side of the Rockies... when Colorado had fires, it was the same thing.

I grew up in a little suburb outside of Chicago. Back when Mt St Helens erupted, I remember the sky was overcast for months off and on. I heard that the cloud from Mt St Helens was circling the earth. They said it lowered the temperature on the planet.

Same with the valcano eruption in Iceland A few years back,... I’m not going to attempt to spell it’s name because it’ll rattle the grammar nazis.

Oh, what the heck.... dfgrhthhfdhtrfgrhthk7dfyb3.7

The ban on combustion engines (ICE) begins in 2035 and is only for the sale of new vehicles.

Our governor said that he's going to stop global warming. Yes, he actually said that. He doesn't understand that China, India and third work countries don't care about carbon emissions. Their first goal is trying to put food on the table for their citizens.

Insurance companies probably have the biggest influence on building construction. They can get stuff done much faster than legislative bodies. If a house burns and the insurance company pays the claim, they can mandate certain building characteristics on the rebuild or refuse to provide coverage on the risk. Few homeowners are willing to or able to self-insure.

Back in 2011, I bought my house in the Santa Clarita Valley. Our house was built on a hillside and our backyard was the top of the hill. State Farm refused to insure the house, unless we covered the eaves with a fireproof material like Hardy board. I looked into it and not only was the cost high (we have a tall two story), but it wasn't recommended, because the heat from the attic wouldn't have a way to vent the air in (air flows through the open eaves and out the fans on the roof).

Farmer's said yes and we've had them as our insurance company. Most others won't even think about it, because the house is in a canyon. Granted, the canyon is situated so fires don't go through. We haven't had a fire through the canyon for over 100 years.

I read and participated in that post. Amazing that we have to post something again this year.

I like your idea about the construction of the house. Masonry on the exterior - check! Tile, metal, slate or concrete roof - check! I'll add that the eaves should be covered with wonderboard or Hardy board.

The house would need to be built with 2X4's or 2X6's, due to our earthquakes. And the exterior of many of our homes is stucco.

The problem is that we need to vent the attic and that allows embers to get sucked right in the attic and start the house on fire. Newer homes have closed eaves that are very small. The older homes haven't been retrofitted. The reason? Cost is too high.

But we can build an apartment for a homeless man and spend over $260K per apartment (not the building, just one apartment).

It's ok to shed a tear..

Wow,.., I recently borrowed one of my brothers skid loaders. It was a Case 1845C... it has over 15,000 hours...

It had a pretty bad fire a few years ago,... not as bad as the video. he replaced the wiring, hydraulic hoses, didn’t do anything with the engine (Cummings 4BT). Pretty strong engine.

Good one!

It;s not all California.

California has a total acreage of 100.2 million acres. Of that total, 47.70 percent, or 47.8 million acres, belongs to the federal government. From 1990 to 2010, the federal government increased its ownership of land in California by 1.6 million acres.

I'm so sorry you and many others in California have had to endure these recent fires. If there really were one and only one root cause (zoning, building codes, brush management, global warming, electric grid maintenance, etc.) for these fires or their severity then an engineering mitigation might be possible. Each one of my proffered causes (except for etc.) do individually have known engineering solutions but each of those solutions harms somebody in the process. This induces one of the paralysis of non-autocratic government, harming one group for the benefit of another begets bureaucratic stagnation and inaction. (I actually heard one group request forming a one year study on the six month impact to an action or inaction. You cannot make this up.)

Our governor has done a terrible job regarding wildfires, the economy and being fair to his constituents. His new "law" is that no new ICE car can be sold beginning 2035. Why? Because it will end GW - yes, he said that.

The average age of a car in the US is 11.9 years with 25% older than 16 years. Those older cars don't burn as clean as new cars. The problem we face is that new cars are expensive and prices are going up. The middle to upper income can afford a new car. Lower income families/people can't, so they keep their junker on the road for too long and pollute the air.

I'm not saying that these fires are from Global Warming. I'm also not saying that we in CA can do anything about GW. This is just a response back to the left side, who believe that we can do something about GW.

it's not SCE or climate change:

2020/09/12/four-arrested-for-arson-on-the-west-coast-one-a-regular-attendee-of-anti-cop-rallies-in-seattle/

I've spoken to people who suspect it's some radical group doing this. That's pretty disgusting!

If our laws required criminals to work off their debt (pick crops, fix roads, clean bulldozers at the dump, clean government buildings, etc) vs sitting in an air conditioned prison watching TV and working out, maybe the criminal would think twice. Don't cause a crime, remain free and work for your wages, which you keep. Or be a criminal, go to prison, do whatever work your told to do and have no freedom.

Those people do get pretty emotionally radical.

We've been burning off the Everglades every year for as long as I can remember...60 years+

"Prescribed burns are set in a mosaic pattern to allow time and space for wildlife to move away from the fire."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article239914013.html

Burn the scrub, leave the tree's...

https://www.drought.gov/drought/states/florida

We have droughts in Florida, and water restrictions...Maybe the lack of burning is contributing to the drought? More particulates in the air for raindrops to form....and you needn't make more excuses for California, they can make enough on their own....they're habitual victims...

https://apnews.com/article/climate-california-fires-climate-change-archive-e86452cefd1462375439abea273f7d87

That's a nice link. Thank you. Did you notice that today Florida has 0% of the state in drought condition while 41% of California is in drought condition.

Do you also get Santa Ana winds that dry anything out?

I don't think so.

If you are seriously trying to convince me (and yourself) that there are zero times during the year that California can conduct a controlled burn then I have nothing further to add.

No, no, no. The idea I'm pushing for is two fold. One is exactly the point you just made. There are only certain times that a prescribed burn is possible and practical anywhere. Typically California has fewer of these times than Florida for multiple reasons one of which is the geographic differences of the two states.

The different climate and geography is a huge reason why our fires burn so large. Though I think a better fire break plan would be a good starting point.

Here's how easily a huge wildfire can start. A few months ago, I was on the 210 freeway near hwy 2. I was on the left of a semi when I saw embers - I thought that he threw a cigarette out the window! I'm a bit outspoken when I see things like this, so I pulled up alongside him and I noticed that more embers were coming from the truck. What happened is the rear brakes had locked and the rotors were orange/red. Chunks of rotor or brake pad was falling off - the embers. I honked my horn and told him to pull over. I parked in front of him and told him what I saw. His brakes stunk and they were orange. He told me he has it under control and he thanked me for stopping. I did call emergency and they sent someone over. That could've been the start of a very bad fire if he were going northbound (hills are to the right of the northbound lane)

2,168 small wildfires sound much better than six figure acreage burning.

So, who do you suppose our governor owes a favor to?

He turned the wildfire tragedy into a war on GW?

Logically, let's say he can reduce CA's carbon footprint. He doesn't understand that it's GLOBAL Warming, not CA Warming. With 15% of the carbon footprint coming from the US, let's say we did a perfect job and got down to 0%. Does the other 85% automatically disappear? I have a feeling that 85% has a lot larger factor on GW than our 15% does.

Instead of animals, I'd rather see prisoners used. Give the prisoners tools and send them to work. They could live in makeshift camps - chained together, so they can't escape.

Clear the dead wood and branches. Create firebreaks by cutting swaths of no fuel areas.

Remember that this is bear country. I don't know how long goats, llama and sheep would last.

So many facets to the problem. Forrest management is hard to do when people insist on building multimillion dollar properties in places you told them not to. They make the needed controlled burns impossible.

My Uncle Gerriet Dirksen made himself a millionaire by selling people homes that either burned up or slid down. He was always amazed at how easy it was too. Some would even have him rebuild the home after it burned. Slid was a different problem as the "property" wasnt there any longer.

When you remove greed and stupidity most problems solve themselves.

In many cases, it's true. There was a development in Laguna Niguel that had terrible slide problems. For years, the property we vacant, but the other available land was built up, so they turned to the slide property. Sure, they shored it up and compacted the dirt. Then the rains came and houses were destroyed.

Bottom line, we have too many people here in the Los Angeles area. The builders cram houses into areas that aren't safe to build. Slide planes, wild fire areas, tides, flooding, etc.

The houses at the foot of the San Gabriel's are typically older. I don't see new developments going up in the foothills. I think it's too difficult to build and the cost is too high.

Employing many different techniques! Well said!

We need to be creative with our solutions out here. And in each area, a different solution(s) may be needed.

Just legalize bear hunting....what good are they anyway...unless you can train them to clear underbrush, I say they're part of the problem...The prisoner workforce is a good idea, though no need for chains, inmate workers are voluntary and should be paid, although deductions for food and clothes and various restitution payments and fines should be included...Giving prisoners the opportunity to pay down debts and earn gain time as well as a little money for commissary, should be the norm in any prison, at least for non-violent offenders anyway.....

It’s interesting,... when a predator is taken out or reintroduce into the equation, it’s amazing the effects it can have.

here as an example, wolves were reintroduced into the Yellowstone National Park, and the effects was positive and the point I’m making where one has to fully understand what impact it’ll have.

Yep. Just look at what happens when man shows up.

To be honest, it was man who removed the wolves. Would you like to tell us why wolves were hunted to extinction in America?

Why would I When it’s not nesscessary?

anyways, The point I was making, you just can’t remove or introduced anything foreign in an environment without realizing the affects and impact it would have.

Not necessary?
Honestly admitting mistakes and learning from them is the only way to avoid repeating them.

You made the high ground statement about "you just can't remove...." and I leave it at that. I know what you were saying so I am not going to nitpick your language usage. but I will ask you to back it up?

Why were the wolves removed in the first place?

No, because the answer to the question was pretty obvious where you already know the answer, correct?

And now it appears your actual intentions are place elsewhere, where I’m not going to play your game of ad hominem.

Might want to look that term up.

Also look this one up obsfucation while you're at it.

For those who don't know. Simple overview. Wolves in the American west along with all other alpha predators were targeted for elimination by ranchers who were already illegally grazing public land. The feds stopped them, charged them for use of the land and reintroduced the alpha predators. They have been pissing and moaning ever since.

Lol,,,I’m not playing your games... as I said, you already know, as far as the items, look it up yourself.

Many, many years ago, we had Grizzlies in CA. I heard that they kept the Black Bear population under control.

Do we have a Black Bear problem where I live? Some say yes, but they don't want to see them anywhere but the zoo. I believe we do, but for a different reason. We leave trash bins unlocked, so bears get in and now that they've found the food source, they come back. Or explore more and get into trouble. The problem we have is that people need to understand that Black Bears are here and it's our job to make sure that we don't lure them into our neighborhoods. In the mountains? Sure, it's their natural habitat.

Yes, we have a Grizzly Bear on our flag! And the only ones in our state are in Zoos.

We have an honor farm near my old house. Back, when it was okay to have an honor farm, it was operational. Now it's a prison, but the inmates who are on good behavior and aren't violent can be sent there. They repair bicycles, work in the dry cleaner and do dog grooming. It gives them a trade, so when they get out, they have a better chance at staying out.

In some areas, you could get away without chains - if it's far enough away from residents or people using the land. If not, then they should be chained. Here in the San Gabriels, if they ran, they could get to civilization in less than a day.

You put short timers in these positions that have no motivation to run, nobody wants an additional 5 years tacked onto their sentence....If they are non-violent offenders they will be back in the population soon anyway, these aren't desperate men and women...You could put ankle bracelet trackers on them anyway....You can't expect anyone to work in chains, that's absurd...maybe in the 50's on road gangs, but in the woods that would never work...

Okay, okay - you're right. Chain gangs are wrong.

But can we chain them to the tree he's working on?

I think you already have enough tree huggers in California...

Haven't you ever seen prisoners alongside the road picking up trash, they don't have chains....I had part of a large restaurant once and we had federal prisoners as kitchen workers, they come cheap and are good workers...but no chains...

http://www.aele.org/law/2011all12/2011-12MLJ301.pdf

The clean up crew we have here in CA sometimes is made up of people who don't want to go to jail, so they pay to work on a clean up crew. The judge gives them community service time (X hours) and they pay an administrative fee to work these jobs. They could be anything from cleaning weeds, picking up trash, washing county vehicles, cleaning up county buildings and VA hospitals, cleaning dump equipment, etc.

The orange jump suit crew are prisoners. I don't know much about that program, except they do wear their prison jump suits and they aren't chained together. My guess is that they're low risk prisoners.

Work release programs are something different. I knew a guy who got a DUI and was sent to a prison (not really a prison, but definitely a restricted site). He was able to come to work (at the Navy Base), he had to eat lunch in a "supervised" area and his lunch was packed by the "prison". They picked him up and drove him back to the "prison", where he lived until his sentence was completed.

The ordeal sure changed him. He became very humble and took nothing for granted anymore. He told me stories about the "prison" - nothing bad, but I know I'd hate to lose my freedom. He told me the guards were tough on him - prior to going "in" he was a big talker. That changed very quickly when he was "in". It may not sound right, but that was probably the best thing for him. I doubt he ever drove drunk again.

In many areas, this would help. I just thought about how they stopped the Bobcat Fire. They made fire breaks in the path of the fire, then watched for big winds (we didn't have any) and the fire is slowly burning toward the break.

Doing more controlled burns to create fire breaks - that may be the answer. When I first moved to CA, they were doing controlled burns. I rarely hear about it anymore.

If all else fails Blame Trump, he should have seen this coming. If he suggests forest management accuse him of not following the science. charge the PG&E higher taxes so they can pass that along to their customers in the form of rate hikes and we will see better regulation of the industry. You could also defund the fire fighters get rid of all those crazy helicopters and water dropping planes that stir up the air and give oxygen to the flames. How a community fights its fires speaks volumes to how it manages other things as well. Maybe this is part of global warming. You don't think there were those who thought there was something to loot in the forests and the easiest ways to get it was to set the place on fire.

We have almost no rain from May to December. With dry air, temps in the 90's to 110's in the summer and lots of sun, it's no wonder we have so much tinder. Though I will say that the San Gabriels (where the Bobcat Fire is) aren't as bad as other areas in terms of tinder. Most of the trees that burned were living and had green leaves. The terrain is so steep that much of the organic matter flows down the hillside when the rains come. Dead tree branches and tree trunks are a problem, but not as much as you'd think. There are other areas of CA that have too much fuel on the ground, but those areas aren't as steep an rugged as the San Gabriels.

Or sheep...then "only ewes can prevent forest fires.." Baxter Black,cowboy poet.

It looks like someone is finally starting to catch on to Baxter Black's suggestion about using sheep to control undergrowth to minimize fire damage.

He made the suggestion in one of his video,and finished with the remark"ONLY EWES CAN PREVENT FOREST FIRES"

See link below:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/flocks-of-sheep-are-the-firefighting-solution-we-never-knew-we-needed/ar-AAQzZdR?ocid=NL_ENUS_A1_20211114_6_2&bep_ref=1&bep_csid=37326

I pretty much agree, but even without those regulatory restrictions, if PG&E (or any utility) is indeed responsible for starting a fire, they should be liable for destruction within a reasonable distance (perhaps a few hundred feet) of the start location, but the spread of the fire beyond that is NOT their fault, so should not be their liability.

I'm not sure I agree. Let's say your neighbor's son was playing with matches and he accidentally started his parent's house on fire. It burned their house down, but in the process, torched a six block radius.

I believe it's the kid's fault. Here's why: If he had not started the fire, then none of the homes would be damaged. One of the rules of Tort Law is that damages are awarded in the amount to put the plaintiff back to the same condition prior to fire.

Based on Tort Law, PGE is responsible for the town of Paradise being burned down, plus they're also responsible for the deaths as well.

"Let's say your neighbor's son was playing with matches and he accidentally started his parent's house on fire. It burned their house down, but in the process, torched a six block radius."

If a single house fire "torched a six block radius."", then either the building codes and/or their enforcement were inadequate, or the community's fire protection was inadequate. I do realize that when a fire occurs during a violent dry wind event, it's almost impossible to control. Fortunately, such events are not terribly common.

In any case, there is no way the kid and his family could pay for all that damage, so it becomes a moot point.

imo, It would depend on the situation, whether it’s Cause was negligence, arson or accident, force majeure (act of nature)

In any case, there is no way the kid and his family could pay for all that damage, so it becomes a moot point.

True, but a utility company can pay and I believe they should. If I decided to conduct business in a place where known risks are - let's say work in an area where there are explosives nearby. Let's also say that I decide to cut corners and I recklessly don't maintain my machinery. A spark occurs and the plant catches fire. The fire ignites the explosives next door and the block goes. Am I only liable for the fire to my building? Or am I liable for the entire block going up? Remember, if I maintained my machinery, then the block would be safe.