I'm freezing - please help me.

What you're looking for is called a temperature data recorder (or logger). I found a pretty slick one here if you're willing to spend a little to prove your point. Or for less than half the price, you can get a space heater from Home Depot. Good luck!

How about a thermometer and a cell phone camera. Easy and cheap enough to get your point across. Could use one of those larger outdoor readers and put it next to a clock to show the time.

Ahh...your low-tech kung-fu is strong, my friend!

Rebecca,

Chances are your cold air comes from the ceiling. There should be a vent where it comes out. See if the vent is adjustable so you can close off some of the flow. You may have to play a little with the amount you close off to dial in the room temperature to your liking.

If the vent is not adjustable, then just get some white cardboard and packing tape and cover a portion of the vent. You can be creative, too, if you get some designer cardboard. The ceiling's the limit, at least inside. ;-)

I always keep a sweater in my cube just incase.

Would also suggest purchasing a small portable electric space heater with a long extension you can run into his offices and plug in there. No sense you paying for the electricity.

i'm wearing two additional sweaters at the moment!

i'm not unwilling to buy something - just need to come up with a reasonable proposal, so my boss will be willing to go for it. i'm looking into the temperature data recorder that CSM recommended.

thanks.

rebecca,

You can rent instruments that will datalog (minute by minute) various Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) and thermal comfort parameters, including temperature, relative humidity, carbon dioxide & carbon monoxide.

While not necessarily "cheap", rental is much cheaper than buying. I have utilized such rented equipment on numerous occasions in the past. Two of the rental companies that I have used in the past are:

Ashtead Technologies (www.ashtead-technology.com); and

Argus-Hazco (http://argus-hazco.com/)

At either of these companies, look for IAQ monitor rentals, something like the TSI Q-Trak #8550 or 8551. These can be rented for around $50 - $60/day as opposed to purchasing for several thousand dollars!

These rental instruments come with software that you can use to download the data, and print it out in tabular and or graphic format. The printouts definitely get the point across...

It sounds like the "landlord" has inappropriately subdivided an independently ventilated tenant space, and not provided the means of adjusting your thermal comfort.

Now, with respect to your actual "problem":

A couple of questions, in order to clarify your situation:

Are there any thermostats present in your tenant space or office?

Where are they located?

Is your office space a perimeter office, or is it in the "core" of the floor?

Is your office provided with ventilation from:

1. a ceiling mounted grill;

2. from a "perimeter" grill (i.e., a convector or induction unit beneath your office window); or

3. by a combination of the two?

If the answer is #2 or #3, does your office share a common wall with the adjacent tenant space?

I have found that when a floor in an office building is subdivided into two or more tenant spaces, there are bound to be problems with the HVAC system, especially with respect to perimeter induction-unit ventilated spaces.

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Where in NJ are you located?

Depending upon the town/county, therre may be provisions in the local "code" requiring that the landlord provide ventilation air at a certain specified minimum and/or maximum temperature...

Answers to your questions are between...

A couple of questions, in order to clarify your situation:

Are there any thermostats present in your tenant space or office? NO

Where are they located? none.

Is your office space a perimeter office, or is it in the "core" of the floor? there are only perimeter offices, if that makes any sense. it is a rectangular office building, with a garage on the bottom floor, and then, two floors of offices above that. my office is on the first floor. there is a hallway in the center of the floor, and there are offices on either side. there are about 6 distinct offices on this floor. the second floor is all one company. my office is not on an end of the building though - so on one side of my is an accountant's office, which has its own thermostat. and on the other side is another office, probably about the same size as mine - which has a thermostat that controls his and my office. i believe the building is built in the early 1980's - possibly 1981.

Is your office provided with ventilation from:

1. a ceiling mounted grill; yes - there are two of them. if i estimate that each ceiling tile is about 1.5 ft by 3 ft, the first one is about 5 feet from the hallway wall, adn 2 foot from the accountants wall. the other one is about 6 feet from the outside wall, and approximately centered between the two side walls. if my estimate of the ceiling tiles is correct, then my office is about 25 foot long by about 17 foot wide.

2. from a "perimeter" grill (i.e., a convector or induction unit beneath your office window); or no - and the window (one) doesn't open and is off-center.

3. by a combination of the two? no.

If the answer is #2 or #3, does your office share a common wall with the adjacent tenant space?

I have found that when a floor in an office building is subdivided into two or more tenant spaces, there are bound to be problems with the HVAC system, especially with respect to perimeter induction-unit ventilated spaces.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where in NJ are you located?

Depending upon the town/county, therre may be provisions in the local "code" requiring that the landlord provide ventilation air at a certain specified minimum and/or maximum temperature...

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I'm not trying to be a trouble maker, i'm just getting extremely tired of being cold all the time. i'm not a complainer by nature, and in general, i am "warm blooded" and am usually warm when others are cold. all summer long, the a/c was set so cold, that i had to wear a sweater most times. i only complained a few times, to the landlord, when my hands were so cold i could barely bend my fingers. they've sent their maintenance guy out a bunch of times. we only moved into this office building in february, and we had to be approved by the town - i don't remember which one of their boards - maybe zoning?

i know that prior to us moving into this office (although i am actually the only one here 90% of the time) - this was used as a file-storage room, for an office on the other side of the hall, which had a much bigger space. since no one actually "lived" in this office - it is possible that this problem has been here a long time.

county is bergen, town is cresskill.

You're not being a trouble-maker; you have every right to a safe, comfortable work environment, by whatever means necessary. Your boss should recognize that your productivity will rise if you're comfortable (just look at how much time you've spent talking to us about the problem). I think you're on the right track. It sounds like your boss has little direct control over the situation, and landlords are like insurance companies (deny, deny, deny). High-tech or low-tech, document the problem and research any applicable codes (OSHA, local building). Then take your evidence up the chain of command. Anyone who still denies the problem should be extended a cordial offer to trade office space with you. At the very least they owe you a space heater. Good luck!

thanks. - and that's not counting the time when i was trying to search google - trying to see if i could find a temp-sensor! until i came across a link on globalspec - which i had subscribed to a few years ago. - when i decided to post, in case there was someone in the tech world with a better idea. one of the inspections we had to have initially was - fire. so i doubt the space heater would go over well... but who knows.

Call the customer service department or marketing department of your local electric or gas utility and you might be able to "sweet talk" the use of a 24 hour temperature recorder that has a round paper chart and ink pens. All of the utilities have them, if they feel sorry for you, you could use it for a week at NO COST.

I worked for a utility and took ours to numerous customers.

Hi Rebecca:

You're getting some excellent suggestions, but it might help in dealing with your landlord to know that you can add temperature control zones at a pretty reasonable price these days. I recently converted my house from one to four zones. The vendor used pneumatically actuated vanes in the existing supply ducts and also snaked the pneumatic lines through the ducts. It was not horribly expensive and required no major duct work. It's now a much more comfortable home just as it would be a low cost, sensible upgrade for your landlord.

Best regards.

DickL

Go out and buy a small portable heater for your office. Put it on the companies tab. If your boss will not go for that or have the landlord make corrections of the buildings heating system. Then you have more problems with your employer then just heat. Time to start looking and let someone else freeze to death

Another temperature logger (also by Lascar, as was the one CSM mentioned, but rather more basic) is available here for $40.

Still a bit ott having to go to these lengths when you shouldn't need to.

Once you get a temperature for your working space can you let us know?

Any temp down to 68 degrees farenheit should be a good temp for office workers. I suspect most assemblers, welders, machinest would like it closer to 60 degrees.

You can probably borrow a temp datalogger, if you think about who has them as a matter of course. Do you know anyone connected with a museum? (art or natural history or whatever - makes no nevermind) They ALWAYS have spares gthering dust in the basement. Or maybe @ the local University - they're used for lab calibration a couple of times per year and gather dust the rest of the time. With a few discrete inquiries (and perhaps a few beers purchased) you should be able to arrange the loan wnd setup of the machine witnout too many problems.

Short-term fix is to stand on a chair and adjust the vanes on the register. You may have to use a paper clip to manipulate the springs taht hold the screen in place, or you may have the type that has a pull down type of clip fastener.

Be glad you're not in Houston. You can always put on more clothes if you're cold, but if you're hot...

Hi Rebecca: Please go to Wal-Mart and purchase a small zone heater with fan that will plug into your office wall. You can buy a pretty good one for about $ 30.00 If your co-worker is trying to be anti-social, turn the tables on him and very carefully start spreading unfounded rumors; like he's gay, is perverted, etc., It won't take long to get rid of him permanently. Let's face it he doesn't deserve to be your neighbor.

This is an uncomplicated solution that should do the job.

No charge.

Tom Fletcher

in hoc signo vinces

What part of the country are you in? I could loan you something but it would be easier if you could get the building "super" to help you. It is easy to put in another stat in your space and if the control system is even fairly modern it can average both spaces. This time of year the building controls can struggle with "heat everything at night and almost cool everthing starting midmorning" It sounds like your building just needs a tune up.

Mike

miketheboilerguy@aol.com

What you are suffering is "recycled building syndrome." Someone adopted the building from the original owner, and their plans did not take into account where the thermostats were located. For example, in a building I was in, the thermostat resided in a lab. The guys in the lab tried desperately to adjust the thermostat down to get cooling air to their equipment. Meanwhile, a chunk of ice was forming around a AC unit in a conference room, which ultimately came crashing through the ceiling!

The guy in the other part of the building is probably sweating his ass off and trying to understand why his thermostat doesn't bring him relief.

Just get a thermometer and enter 15 minute readings into an Excel spreadsheet or a Word document. Send it to him and let him know that he is controlling your office, and no matter how low he sets the thermostat, it doesn't affect his office... Someone has control of his thermostat...

On the other hand, find out who that someone is, and tell him you'll back it off if he revs it up.

Following your syndrome, a good model for the origins of a terrible conflict could be:

A loving couple in a double bed with 2 electric blankets. But, the controls are crossed!

In the UK, if an office temperature is less than 60degF, 30mins after work-start-time then one has legitimate, protected, grounds to walk out.

Discuss the situation with line management at an early stage.

good suggestions all with some short term strategies that might help. Just another thought, let's not forget what may end up being the primary motivator - paying the costs of the energy that isn't working efficiently. Someone is footing the bill for cooling a space that doesn't need to be at present. A similar problem is likely to exist once the the heat gets turned on - you might very well be asking for icewater and a portable AC unit to sit next to your dormant space heater while you have to allow heat to be pouring out of any available windows -

See if the building owner or tenants paying/sharing a common heating and cooling bill can be assembled in a room - and educated as to the savings to be generated - may speed up the process -

good luck

Jim

Try this site. They have some fairly inexpensive ones.

On another note, do you have access to the next door company's electrical panel? Get a friend who knows about circuits and who gets billed for electricity and hook up as many 1500 W electric heaters as you need to warm the place up. When the jerk gets the power bill, I'll bet he'll be more willing to negotiate.

Take the scews out of the flow diffusor, cut a piece of card board the same size as the diffusor frame and put a 3" round hole in it. Screw it back up where it came from. If that isnt good enough then adjust the hole accordingly.

The watchdog website has a few of these recorders. A before and after would be appropriate.

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but since your office space was only used for file storage they may have partially closed off the ducts to your area to save energy and the registers may need adjusting. If it is a dual duct system the heat registers may not be open enough. Ask your landlord or maintenance personell to check them.

As an imterim solution to your thermostat problem, I would recommend getting some magnetic vent covers to simply block the AC vent and prevent the cold air from coming in. Check out this link: http://www.armourdiecutting.com/ventcovers/magneticventcovers.htm

If the temp is below 65 or 68 degrees,and its after oct/nov ( varies by state) the law is on your side, as well as Board of Health and OSHA. Though this would force you into the complainer catagory as noone likes to be forced to do what they are supposed to do.

I used to be a landlord. I had a few "Professional Tennants" as we call them , who would kick out window screens or lower the thermostat, then call the board of health and have us written up so they wouldnt have to pay rent for the month. Bottom line, the law is on your side, not the owner/landlord.

I was just thinking about that as well, or flatten someones tires

Lets not take the nasty route. Remember, the best time to look for a good (or better) job is when you already have one. Use it to your advantage. Your greatest loyalty should be to your next employer.

Sage advice.

Call OSHA!

prbarry,

Calling OSHA won't do any good. They have no jurisdiction.

OSHA was "forced" (primarily by lobbyists) to recind their proposed Indoor Air Quality Standard back in 2001.

As a follow-up, on 2/24/03, the OSHA Directorate issued a memorandum that states:

"As a general rule, office temperature and humidity are matters of human comfort. OSHA has no regulations specifically addressing temperature and humidity in an office setting. However, Section III, Chapter 2, Subsection V of the OSHA Technical Manual, "Recommendations for the Employer," provides engineering and administrative guidance to prevent or alleviate indoor air quality problems. Air treatment is defined under the engineering recommendations as, "the removal of air contaminants and/or the control of room temperature and humidity." OSHA recommends temperature control in the range of 68-76° F and humidity control in the range of 20%-60%."

However, OSHA's recommendation is not a regulation, and can not be enforced...

Hello rebccasegal ,

Your problem is quiet unusual it seems as though , the guy next door should co operate in such circumstances and change the AC settings according to your need , not his , and when we talk of energy conservation these guys should know .you can get lots of temperature sensors and measuring instruments (data loggers) just as pointed out by our members that are quiet cheap as well or rent them , you can interface with computers and get full recording 24 hours . as far as your self freezing is concerned get a heater with humidifier and install it in your office if your neighbour tends to be arrogant.....what a waste of energy...

Call in sick a few days every week until the office get warm. It is employer's responsibility to keep work place comfortable. Request a portable heater for yourself.

Pineapple

What to do!!!

Take a piece of cardboard and stick it over the opening with sticky tape. It may at least draw the attention of the cool management. (hope for a heated argument)

any wooden furniture? Get a 45 gallon drum and burn it = sends message.

seriously you need to address your boss on this, as you seem a little bit too shy and retiring.

If it was me, the furniture would have been burned weeks ago(along with my bridges...) and I would be into the carpet by now...LOL

Harder to find, but much better for comfort is an electrically heated mat to put on the floor in the knee space of your desk. Radiant heat and the warmth of the mat will keep your feet warm and indirectly heat the entire space. This is more energy efficient as well as being more comfortable and safer than "space heaters" of any variety.

My computer room at home doesn't warm up as well as the rest of the house. I put a 3' electric baseboard type heater underneath the desk. and set it between low and medium. I find that the heat drifts up under the desk surface and exists between me and the slide-out keyboard and up past my face. Nice and cozy but it dries out my eyes so I can't spend more than about a half hour at the computer when the heat is on. (Makes it difficult laboring on the "bath breaking thread") Maybe a quartz radiant heater would work better. It won't heat the room environment but it will heat whatever it is directed at, but only that side. Like a French fry warmer in a restaurant.

thanks for all of your suggestions. i didn't really ask for job advice, i guess that was a free bonus. thanks for the links for the various temperature data loggers. i like the heated-floor pad idea, too - like having warm feet.

as far as an update - i'm still alive and moving, not frozen in place yet! today the bosses were here, and found it to be freezing, went next door to speak to the themostat people, but it was only the secretary there, who was nice, and raised the temp. they plan to call the landlord. btw - we don't pay for utilities, its all part of the rent - so plugging stuff into other ppl's offices isn't really solving anything.

burning down the building or all the furniture, doesn't sound like a good idea, nor does plugging up the vents - since that is my only source of heat. i'd rather have the problem fixed at the source - or better yet, have them install a thermostat into my office. that was really what my thinking was - prove that having a thremostat in his office isn't working for those on this side of the wall. don't know if it isn't a realistic solution for the HVAC pt of view, but i would think there has to be a way to make it work.

Unfortunately, it's been my experience that they will try almost anything rather than relocate a thermostat. They'll bring the HVAC guys in a hundred time to adjust the baffles rather then relocating a thermostat.

I guess it must be really big bucks to tear out and relocate one of those pneumatic thermostats!

cute - looks just like me!

Rebecca,

I see that you are in NJ so my tip could be useless.

On this side of the water we have laws that specify the quality of the air inside the working area: especially the humidity is important and the speed of the air is also an important factor. The wet bulb temperature is important, as this is the value that you will sense. (the absolute temperature could give you a nice 20°C but the wet bulb can go below 15°C which is really cold)

If we doubt the situation we can call the medical service which has been appointed by our boss and they come in to do the logging and all necessary measurements. What they conclude has to be taken serious.

Perhaps the union can help you out.

Another solution could be that you quit this job and take another position, after talking to you boss and giving him the time to solve the issue.

Gwen

There is a device called a VAV box. This is spliced in to the existing AC/heat line to you're ofice, sized according to the size of your vent tube, with a thermostat installed to the VAV box you now have automatic control of your environment. You are limited with what you receive/control due to if it is cooling all you can do is open or close the valve, heat would be the same thing. Beats cardboard.

I've seen this many times before. However, instead of a VAV box, they send out some guy to go up into the plenum and adjust the baffles... But it never really works.

I am not an HVAC person, but it would be nice to hear from one that could explain why it's so hard to get a thermostat relocated. I mean, like, is that a really pricey thing or what?

It's not hard to relocate a thermostat, may take time, cost would consist of labor and maybe some thermostat wire. Relocating the thermostat most likely will not help you unless it is installed in your room. The typicall fan coil or vav installation (AC/Heater system) is usually installed in a room with one thermostat for that room. In some cases there will be multiple small rooms adjacent to the large room with drops into the small rooms from the one unit (depending on how large the room there may be more units) hence temperature fluctuations and control problems for the small side rooms. This is where the vav box controllers come into play. Problems exist with the thermostat in the main room, if it is not cooling or heating when you need it your room you will not be satisified with the temperature. It would cost more to install a vav box controller than move the thermostat. Not an easy solution, other than other post stated by putting a portable heater in room, but then you may get that taken away due to fire codes. It's alway's a pain with this type of installlation, Sorry.

Rather than relocate the thermostat, is it possible to install another one, that controls the flow of warm (or cool) air into my office? in other words, how complicated is it to subdivide the system? Although this is really the landlord's problem - is it even a realistic request?

Refer to #49 and #53 comments by The Dog Father. You cannot really subdivide the system but you can control what comes into your room with a VAV control box and thermostat.

Hi My FREEZING BAUBUSKA.

Your not looking at this in the right way. First you need to get a grip on your lease and find out where it said you have no rights. The key is "No Honey No Money" You see everything works fine in your building. There is not a lack of sufficient heat. Take your landlord to school. Call your lawyer and ask if you set up a lease escrow in the name of your company for the lease how would it effect your lease. He will ask you what for. Well you now have wour landlord by the thermostat. Let your lawyer serve your landlord with the escrow notice by filing a writ. Just make shure you deposit your lease and give a receipt. All your paperwork will reflect the reason "NO HEAT". In the meantime get you a small space heater some coco for your clients and see how fast this works. Don't worry about that other business your smarter. By By.....

OK. Now I understand!