wind turbine generator motor that produces 5000 watts

Maybe you tried this?, www.homepower.com.

James

Check alibaba.com.There are many companies in China who make wind generators for Home use.

Dear sir. We are a supplier.henryzhang1@hotmail.com

Canadian Tire sell wind generators. Also try the Canadian Wind Energy Association for links.

A car is having a generator that can deliver 1 to 2 KW,

so a truck is likely to have 5 or more KW.

This is rated at nominal speed but if you drive it at higher speed then the power will go up.

If speed and torque is doubled the power will be fourfold.

May be you have to take care of the rectifying diodes if voltage goes too high and may be the lubrication of the bearings may pose some problems.

Try and solve the problems, this will be the cheapest solution.

You will need a variable transmission if you want to extract maximum possibvle energy.

RHABE

I don't think your figures are correct regarding vehicle alternators (not generators!). It would be a very rare car alternator that produced over 1 kW and that is not a continuous rating. A truck alternator is not all that much bigger; yes, they have bigger batteries to re-charge after starting but the running load on a truck is not a whole lot higher than a car, especially a car whose owner has bolted on a big line up of aftermarket lights!

Hi,

I think that you are a little "behind the times" so to say with car alternators.... as assuming a voltage of 14.4 volts (typical max charging voltage) then 1KW is only about 70 amps....

All of my Diesel VWs over the last 10 years and my present Mitsubishi Grandis DI-D have had 120 amp alternators.......which is over 1.7 KW!!!

I am sure that VW are reasonably typical and that I would expect (not having checked myself) that more than 1KW to be for most cars today, especially Diesels!! Maybe even VW is on the low side.....who knows!

I would expect a much higher wattage from Lorries and trucks and as they generally have 24 volts, it could be quite useful when driven from the wind!!! I would guess that 5 KW is probably the minimum for such vehicles......

Your probably right that I'm behind the times but most of the vehicles I come into contact with, including new models, are in the 70 - 80 amp region. At the rated 12 volts that's under 1 kW. I'm aware that some are higher but my point was that in the general run of secondhand alternators anything over 1 kW would be rare. I dug up a comparison table http://www.prestolite.com/literature/alts/PP1184_Buyer_Guide_alt.pdf and I'd say your diesels are well up there at 120 amps. As you'll see there are also listings for trucks and earthmoving equipment in there and they are no higher than cars for the simple reason they are doing much the same job. There may be some special applications where the output is much higher but such units would probably cost more than a purpose designed wind generator

My main reason for posting was concern at the casual assumption that you'll get a continuous 5 kW out of a truck alternator. Anyone attempting to build a wind turbine to give 5kW will be sadly disappointed if they go down this path. You could probably due it with several units but by the time you'd mucked around it would have been far simpler to get a unit designed to do the job.

You could well be right.

My ideas (in another Blog) was to have pulleys (as many as you wish to have generators) being turned by the propeller or what ever they call it and just clink in more and more generators, with DC they could run in parallel quite easily, till you achieve your 5KW.....if the wind drops, move them back out....

Automated would be better of course!!!

Some alternators has quite a drag even before you start taking current from it, cogging I believe its called.....

I did find this which could help:-

heavy duty Truck Alternators to 250 amps

Wikipedia mentions truck Alternators to 300 amps at 24 volts!!!!!

It could produce a lot of amps at 12 / 24 volts DC if the wind allows. Thats the problem with wind generators, you need the wind. I presented a paper in a college class advocating 'regional" power solutions. In America power generation should be based on local resources, geothermal out west, wind where applicable, hydro electric in areas rich in rivers and biomass in the farm lands. I also advocated smaller plants that provided for the local region, providing local jobs. More plants, environmentally friendly, independent of the main infrastructure. None dependant on the whole.

James

Sounds interesting. Perhaps you could connect them axially, with some form of clutch (or viscous coupling?!) between and the clutches are engaged as required to hold the blades at your ideal RPM. If you could make your clutches and field windings all processor controlled you could probably get quite efficient.

Pulleys would be a lot simpler, but our old enemy friction would take a bit.

I found the 250 amp truck alternators interesting. They seem to be upgrading the 21SI alternator with extra diodes. They spoke a lot about the diodes but not a lot about the windings. 250 amps is serious current, even if spread over several windings. I'd be interested to see a bench test involving running with a continuous 3 kW load.

I'm not an expert on generator design but I'd assume there's a point where it's cheaper to use better insulation and up your output voltage, rather than spending money on heavier and heavier windings to handle the current.

Hi,

the generator is not affected by voltage or current as the resistive losses are down with big cross-sections of high current carrying copper wire and vice versa.

So the winding a generator or motor can be freely selected to be either high current-low voltage or other way.

There are limits:

below 1V most applications run into problems at no longer available suitable electronics.

above 600V there is a severe increase in insulation and reliability ans safety requirements.

and: inductive energy goes up with voltage so commutation is difficult or speed i slimmited and inductive energy has to be stored and fed back.

The switching on and off that is proposed above is an interesting idea. The problem may be that the power of any wind-generator raises with the cube of the wind velocity.

RHABE

You wrote:-

I'm not an expert on generator design but I'd assume there's a point where it's cheaper to use better insulation and up your output voltage, rather than spending money on heavier and heavier windings to handle the current.

I agree entirely, which is probably why even a truck generator at 24 volts would be a good step in the right direction I feel.

Soon, we will be seeing cars within the next couple of years with 48volt systems, exactly because of what you wrote, it will help reduce the wiring hence the weight of the car as a whole.....then a whole new range of alternators will be available for us hobbyists!

The 48 V cars will be interesting. I foresee the huge resistance to the concept that the 24 V vehicles ran into. Makes a lot of sense but your 12 V accessories won't work anymore!

The 24 V truck alternator makes sense as long as you accept much less than 5 kW. I know I'm undoubtedly repeating myself but nothing has been brought forth to show that continuous rated 5 kW truck generators are freely available. I've been involved with many electrical systems on heavy machinery, including some trucks, and 24 V @ 55 amps is very much the norm. No more is necessary.

The only rationale for using automotive components in a non-automotive application is that they are as cheap as chips and commonly available. If you have to track down a specialised high current alternator, you might as well purchase an alternator that's been designed with a wind turbine in mind.

Off subject a bit, but it'll be interesting to see what problems 48v systems bring forth. Most people are surprised at how much more damage a 24 V fault can produce, compared with 12 V. 48 V will run a stick welder!

You wrote:-

The 48 V cars will be interesting. I foresee the huge resistance to the concept that the 24 V vehicles ran into. Makes a lot of sense but your 12 V accessories won't work anymore!

Sort of obvious statement that is not really needed. Do you not feel that 48volt versions might not become available very quickly? Or that maybe a 12 volt supply is made electronically available for certain add-ons, not very difficult to do with a switched mode unit I feel! Was there ever a thought to putting 24 volts in cars? most manufacturers (in Europe at least) wanted to go directly to 48 volts and some wanted to go to 96 volts at one point.....

I suspect there may have been a short thought for 24 volts, but not very long, the savings on weight would only have been at best 50% whereas 48 gives a start value of 75% saving (till you load this up with even more accessories!)

The 24 V truck alternator makes sense as long as you accept much less than 5 kW. I know I'm undoubtedly repeating myself but nothing has been brought forth to show that continuous rated 5 kW truck generators are freely available. I've been involved with many electrical systems on heavy machinery, including some trucks, and 24 V @ 55 amps is very much the norm. No more is necessary.

This is also a sort of pointless paragraph, the units in question ARE available in both 12 and 24 volts, I even put a link in to show that.....Wikipedia also mentions truck alternators with up to 300 amps at 12 volts that would be 4.3KW. At 24 volts, double that, so they do exist, maybe not in your world, but in this world!!!

Quote from Wikipedia:- Very large automotive alternators used on buses, heavy equipments or emergency vehicles may produce 300 amperes. See this quote at the following link:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator#Automotive_alternators

The only rationale for using automotive components in a non-automotive application is that they are as cheap as chips and commonly available. If you have to track down a specialized high current alternator, you might as well purchase an alternator that's been designed with a wind turbine in mind.

Where is you rationale here, look at the difference in price!!!!! I am sure the Wind version is better but is it $5,000 better when you can get a truck alternator or four for $30 each and also a few spares in case one breaks down???? people are either not willing to spend the money or do not have it to start with. One accepts that the special is "better", but accepts the lesser price as being far more acceptable....simple mathematics. Even if the special were 50% better (which i seriously doubt anyway) the homebrewers would not buy it, they would prefer either something cheap or completely home brewed, also cheap!! Look at this, I bet it can be made for less that $200:-

http://www.otherpower.com/bartmil.html

The cheapest 5KW Windmill alternator that I could find on the web is from China(240 volt) at $1214 before shipping and customs. Most of them in Europe and the USA cost far more than that even before shipping....

Off subject a bit, but it'll be interesting to see what problems 48v systems bring forth. Most people are surprised at how much more damage a 24 V fault can produce, compared with 12 V. 48 V will run a stick welder!

Having seen welding done with 12 volt batteries and carbon rods, having seen a friend taken to hospital after shorting his car battery to earth with his metal watch strap, having seen or heard many times over the years when people have accidentally shorted out a car battery with bad results, believe me, you will need a very fine microscope to see any major differences to their injuries at 12 volts 24 volts or 48 volts!!!! This is just hairsplitting on a fine scale!!! Going to hospital and going to hospital and comparing the injury results!!

I relate what you are saying to say falling 100 feet and dying of your injuries and falling 1000 feet and dying of your injuries.....the 1000 feet being much worse of course........!!!

I really feel that you should fully think through and read through afterwards what you are writing before committing it......sorry but that how I see it......I am sure you meant well, but you missed the nail completely to my mind.....with the hammer I mean! If you go into print, be prepared to be criticized when someone dissagrees and to stand up for what you wrote. If you cannot take that, then do not print in the first place.....

Have a great day in spite of me....

Sorry Andy, I thought we were simply having a discussion on the merits of different systems. I'm in Australia and it's quite possible that what I see and work with here is different to what you encounter. Various manufacturers have flirted with 24 V for domestic vehicles as it makes a lot of sense for cranking diesels. The problem is that consumers don't like it. All your aftermarket equipment is 12 V. Some have tried 24 V start and 12 V run (Volvo truck idea!) as a solution which makes more sense as you can at least borrow a trailer without destroying all the globes.

Regarding the damage caused by the higher voltage, I wasn't so much referring to injuring people, rather to the "flash" when little electrical mishaps happen. A loose battery terminal on a 24 V system will destroy the post quite readily. I'm not sure what your hands on experience is with the subject in question and I hate taking the discussion down this path but on everything I've commented on I'm speaking from practical experience. I'm sorry if my statements are obvious but I have used automotive alternators for other applications and used conservatively they perform well but if you take the 120 amp alternator out of your VW and think you can run it as a continuous 1.7 kW supply you're in for a surprise.

I've no doubt that you can find alternators larger than normal. I've worked on such units on commercial fishing boats where they have big lighting loads. Generally though they use 240 V generators for economic and practical reasons. Once you start getting up round the 100 amp area it gets a bit silly and it makes sense to use the commonly available 240 V stuff.

Your link to a 250 amp alternator takes me to souped up automotive alternators which, as I commented before, leaves me with some questions as to the windings. Wikipedia may mention alternators available up to 300 amps at 12 volts but again if you think that you can automatically double that by going to 24 V you are definitely in a world of your own!

My point in this whole discussion is that automotive alternators are fine for mucking around with on smaller systems but they are simply not appropriate for someone who wishes to build 5 kW turbine system to run a house or similar. There are heaps of second hand generators around. I bought a 6 kVA one for $150 (motor was kaput) a while back and that'll run continuously at 6 kW all day without any hassles. Thing is that it's heaps bigger and heavier than an automotive alternator but as I'm running it off a PTO shaft I don't care. Why would you lock yourself into the limitations (size, weight, low voltage etc) of the automotive world when there's no reason to?

You really did not understand in the slightest what I wrote and why......are you really so blind? and so "not adaptable in thinking", unbelievable! A human Dinosaur!!

You really should read what I wrote and very, very slowly.......its not what you seem to think I wrote....!!

A new study of the English language is needed by you......

You are on a set of railroad tracks without points...you cannot effect any further diectional changes...very, very sad.

My points are still there, I can exert my will and switch my direction....

Bye bye.

I'm not sure what the problem is here Andy. You appear to feel that being offensive is an alternative to sensible discussion.

Post 18 makes my point exactly. A 240 v, 4000W (continuous) generator for $500. As you said, perfect. Your 250 amp, 12 v (3 kW) alternators are over $400 and I seriously doubt that they'd last long at anywhere near that sort of load.

With regard to the railway track comment; I've spent years finding home brewed, alternative ways to do things but I've also learned along the way to realise where limitations lie. If you could show me how to get 5 kW from a commonly available vehicle alternator I'd be delighted but unfortunately you've failed dismally.

It appears that actually your points are stuck because you seem unable to accept that using low voltage systems at 100's of amps is difficult and expensive when compared to using readily available 240v generators which are intended for continuous service.

I do agree though that this is becoming silly. I think the problem is that you base your position on what you can find on the internet. I base mine on many years of hands on experience. Go away and try and get 5 kW out of a automotive alternator. Then perhaps you'll discover there's a world of difference between the optimistic rating on an automotive product and a proper continuous rating.

DUUHH.....

By using more than one small alternator and adding or subtracting them by a simple hand or automated clutch system......that way the input (wind power) is matched/balanced to the load!!!

Someone else either in this blog or another, has actually done just that, so my idea is not unique in anyway at all....and it would appear to be viable too....

You did not go back and read my earlier posts, it was there I think in the first one.

Capeech?

My other point was only that the large alternators that you say do not exist, DO EXIST!! I never said it was a good idea to use them in this wind context either, you got that into your own head somehow.....in fact I would not recommend using these large ones at all, but they ARE available!!!!! For those people/projects that need them!!

For example large alternators are needed on things like buses for night travel, they have had to light literally dozens of incandescent light bulbs (until recently anyway) to allow passengers to read their newspapers at night....London transport buses of many years ago had I believe about 60 x 25 watt 48volt(?) lamps inside and of course engine requirements and running lights. A tidy number of watts would be needed an and I am only speaking of buses in the 50s and 60s.....double-deckers....A lot of European lorries with cooled or frozen cargo have a small engine for when the rig is parked, but use electricity from the main engine when running I am informed.....

Try re-reading what I wrote in my other posts, its that simple......and it will show you what I wrote and not what you have imagined I wrote.....I read fast, but I read very, very accurately. Maybe you just read fast....

You definitely have a problem Andy. I've en devoured to discuss this topic with you in a polite and constructive manner but you insist on making it some sort of contest.

You'll actually discover if you read back (fast of course) that I mentioned using several units in #10. I too have seen this done but the person whose system I helped wire had problems due to friction and overall complexity and (surprise, surprise) ended up recycling an old 2 kVA gen set which gave him more than his multitude of alternators.

In post 8 you stated

"I would expect a much higher wattage from Lorries and trucks and as they generally have 24 volts, it could be quite useful when driven from the wind!!! I would guess that 5 KW is probably the minimum for such vehicles......"

This is nonsense and is what I replied to. You have spent ever since trying to justify an incorrect statement. Of course there are high capacity alternators out there. I question whether they are readily available for:

"you can get a truck alternator or four for $30 each"

I've never had to source one but I remember being told on a fishing boat once that their high capacity alternator had cost a fortune. They'd gone the low voltage path because of OH&S (Occupational Health and Safety) concerns with 240 v in a marine environment and were bemoaning the cost.

Anyway, enough said. I seem to be falling into the old trap of "never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference".

You are mixing too many things up and not fully rereading other relevant posts as well, I see little point in further conversation on this subject as you are set on your own road to hell and I am really too busy otherwise to worry.

When criticising others, you make the mistake of doing exactly that for what you are criticising them for, a common mistake in this world.....

I hope the road is smooth.

Byee....

go to Otherpower.com to find out how to build your own

Bergey makes a bunch of different wind turbines for production of electricity.

http://www.bergey.com/

Unfortunately I've found the payback time to be close to 20 years for my house. I'm still working the calculations though.

Go to the nearest Princess Auto store or visit:

http://www.princessauto.com/PAcountry.cfm?CTRY=CAN&INF=home

and ask for item #0740126 - 5,000W belt drive generator. Price: $500.

Perfect and thank you for posting!!