The Problem With EV Charging Units

Tesla gets all its Supercharger cables stolen at brand new station

https://electrek.co/2022/02/07/tesla-supercharger-cables-stolen/

https://www.cartalk.com/content/copper-theft-are-ev-charging-stations-next-target

So, will we need armed attendants now at all the charging stations...?

How about wireless charging? ...certainly less efficient, but replacing charging cables could get real expensive in a very short time....another reason to go with the battery pack changeout method...

Wireless charging is a nice idea, and works fine for your smartphone that needs just a few watts, but the electric utilities are already struggling with the expected increases in load due to the push for transition to EVs. To have that new demand increased by 10% or more due to having to charge cars wirelessly means that the the supply and transmission/distribution will need that much more capacity as well.

Maybe the charger could plug in the vehicle from below autonomously...this would require communication between the vehicles and charger to select the proper charging protocol...an automated setup...but that would also require below ground infrastructure which could be a problem...In any case it would seem the cables need to be kept out of sight and inaccessible...The battery pack changeout looks more and more attractive...

I suppose "leaving them charged up with enough voltage for an unpleasant shock" is not an allowable solution.

Having the outer covering giving off a poison gas when sawed probably won't work either.

I understand that the best cables are liquid cooled. Perhaps having that liquid pressurized and containing some obnoxious odor, like skunk oil...

We don't need no stinkin' cables!

Well certainly we need armored cable (like for flexible conduit) over the copper, but that may not be enough. Eliminate the cables by having 2 large connectors on the front of the car. You drive up and make contact with 2 connectors at the station. They could all be made of steel.

Changing batteries doesn't seem viable since they weigh about 1000 lbs., 450 Kg average weight. Why not have the cable travel with the car? The cable could be on a reel inside the car and so thieves wouldn't have an attractive target since the charging stations would then have a socket instead of a cable.

They were addressing that, where the car would drive over an exchange station, the battery pack is under the car between the wheels. It would have to be a universal battery.

Yeah, they'll need another $trillion to replace the copper...

Coppers a prized commodity amongst theives.

One other thing,... With the Biden Administration wanting to go with all EV for government fleets, Right here on CR4 website, its listed According to the GAO, 100,000 or more charging stations will be needed for the government to switch to an EV fleet.

I think that number appears light considering the charge time. With the majority of government workers working 1st shift. It appears yet another not well thought out plan by career politicians.

Wait till they get a taste of all those miles of heavy copper cables at the solar generation facilities....

100 Miles of Copper Cable Connects 4.6-MW Photovoltaic Solar Farm

https://www.copper.org/environment/sustainable-energy/renewables/solar/case-studies/a6132/a6132.html

..." A well-designed solar PV plant might use approximately 9,000 pounds of copper per megawatt of peak capacity – a figure that does not appear to vary significantly over installations ranging from large rooftop units to multi-megawatt utility farms."....

https://issues.solarindustrymag.com/article/rise-solar-unique-opportunity-copper

And the 'green team' has no idea where copper comes from...

Well it comes from the recycler of course....

https://www.cnbc.com/id/100917758

But Chile is main source for virgin...

That's gotta be Chuquicamata! It was already huge when I visited there in '66. I can't imagine how much rock they must have moved in 56 years...

...."Collahuasi copper mine is situated in northern Chile, about 180km southeast of the port of Iquique, at an altitude of 4,400m.

The mine is jointly owned by Anglo American (44%), Glencore (44%), and Japan Collahuasi Resources (12%). The operating company is Cia. Minera Doña Ines de Collahuasi.

Lying in an area of historical copper mining, the deposit was outlined in 1991 after exploration by Shell, Chevron and Falconbridge in the late 1980s. The mine was commissioned in April 1999 at a cost of $1.76bn. During 2004, the project partners completed a $584m expansion programme at the mine, giving it a long-term capacity of 500,000t/yr of copper.

The Collahuasi mine has up to 51 years of life from 2020 to 2070 according to the latest Life of Mine plan."....

Looks similar to the Chuquicamata...

Kennecott copper mine in Bingham Canyon, Utah is the words largest man-made excavation.

"Kennecott is the second largest copper producer in the United States, providing approximately 13 percent of the country's copper needs. Kennecott produces approximately 300,000 tons of refined copper each year... In addition to copper, the mine also produces about 400,000 ounces of gold, 4 million ounces of silver and 20 million pounds of molybdenum."

kennecott-copper-mine.htm

I've never been there. Might be worth adding to my bucket list.

There are copper mines scattered all across southern New Mexico and Arizona. Two that I have visited are south of Tucson and near Silver City. Others exist.

South of Tucson:

West of Silver City:

East of Silver City:

Then they would break into your car to steal the cables. I knew a guy who made his own car alarm for his van. He forgot to turn it on one day and somebody broke into his van and stole the car alarm.

So do the thieves separate the copper or do they take the cables with connectors still attached to a fence recycler? Those cables, even with the plug cut off, must be pretty recognizable. With the plug still on, no honest buyer would touch them (I'd hope!). Lean hard on the buyers (like some jurisdictions are doing with catalytic converters).

Now isn't there some easier way to make a living?

I would think they would burn off the insulation, I know we used to take all our scrap wire and put it into a 55 gal barrel, and burn off the insulation,(the higher the purity the better the price) we used the money for our Christmas party every year...The plugs might be more valuable if they can be reused...would have to check Ebay...

https://connectorsupplier.com/electric-vehicle-charging-connectors-product-roundup/

Locally, the thieves burn the insulation off insulated cables. The Cu from this, added to bare copper HV conductors, are then either smelted (?) in small furnaces or chopped into small, unidentifiable pieces. Exported via container to wherever.

So these smart people put lots of vulnerable kit in easy public access, but did not add security cameras??

Probably too expensive...

Aye, far more expensive than all the replacement cables, lost time and thieves running loose....

Easily neutralised by $4 can of black spray paint.

Simple Solution. Put the cable in the car. Either hard wired and you pull it out or like an extension cord.

Simple. The charging cable becomes part of the vehicle and is extended to mate with the outlet. Just like all other electric devices.

Probably need a motorized retractable set-up....$700

Yeah, it's not small. I have one of those in my RV. Four conductor SOOW cable with 6 AWG conductors. I wonder if they could use larger gauge aluminum conductors instead? Scrap aluminum prices are not nearly as high as copper.

I still like the battery bank changeout better...you never have to worry about your batteries, they don't wear out, it provides an easy upgrade solution, it provides a centralized network of battery recycling possibility...this way the battery technology could be modularly upgraded over time, and you could keep your car for as long as you want rather than being faced with a huge bill when the battery pack fails...also the batteries could be thoroughly tested when being charged for failing cells, this could provide a safer battery pack experience and possibly mitigate the chance of a fiery death...always a good thing...not to mention standardization of battery packs that would bring down prices....

Modular was discarded as an idea for cars, as the way the batteries are incorporated into the frame gives more useable space for the occupants and their luggage.

Not only that, but how would you feel if you exchanged a brand new battery and got one with only 50% of the capacity remaining?

It may still be the way forward for trucks, if installed through the grille.

I think the battery packs are replaced at 80% of capacity...and they only last about 8 years...think about the fact that no matter what, you can have your batteries changed out anytime for a standard monthly fee...when advanced designs become available, like solid state batteries that increase the capacity, you will automatically be eligible to receive them, and improved safety when that is developed...your cost to replace the battery pack after 8 years could be $20k, that is eliminated with this plan...and the range doesn't matter that much, because you can take 15 min and change the pack out again....compare that to charging, that will take who knows how long...People are in too much of a hurry all the time, they can't be expected to wait around at some random charging location all the time, it's too inconvenient....

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808b-what-causes-li-ion-to-die

You make a good argument. I think it would be necessary to make the change over fast and convenient; the idea of battery exchange stations would require a large storage area and this could be problematic when you are moving 1000 lb. objects around. I agree with the idea of not having to face the expense of buying a new battery every 100 to 150 K miles. I'm still not comfortable with the fire safety issue. I wouldn't park one of the EV's in my garage, which makes me like the idea of keeping my gas powered vehicle.

Well the reasoning is that the batteries can be changed out to solid state when they hit the market...and therefore should be much less of a fire threat...even though the threat is minimal to begin with here, mostly manufacturing defects being the major cause I think, and physical damage of course...still I get what you're saying...who needs the stress

$18k for 40 charging station cables....that's $450. per charging cable...national average for scrap copper is $3.62 per lb today....It would be cheaper to pay the thieves not to steal the cables...

Please don't give our insane representatives any ideas about law enforcement!