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Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 6:47 AM

I would like to have a comparison between Steell alloys and Aluminium alloys...

They´r caracteristics of machinability, bendability and others of more modern make.

I was doubtfull were to put this question but I chose General dicussion since it may be of multiple areas.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#1

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 6:58 AM

They'r Their

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#10
In reply to #1

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/21/2025 7:28 AM

Steell steel

caracteristics characteristics

doubtfull doubtful

were where

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/22/2025 5:13 AM

tanks (for the correction)!

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/22/2025 8:46 AM

Also

dicussion discussion

Missed that one!

BTW if you're not a native English speaker, it's better than most of my attempts at other languages.

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#2

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 7:04 AM

Well, there are a number of sources of information: various machinery handbooks, Kempe's Engineers' Yearbook, Google, Wikipedia, etc.

Has the search got that far yet? Because it is a very broad one. Some idea of what is intended to be built would go a long way towards narrowing it down:

  • No-one would make an aircraft fuselage out of tool steel, for example, lighter and more flexible alloys being the preferred direction of travel.
  • Try and do machine cutting with an alumin(i)um tool and see how effective it is.

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#3

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 8:15 AM
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#7
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Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 11:38 AM

that a pretty big paint brush, but still a good answer for generalization.

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#4

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 11:09 AM

Steel = alloy = Apple

Aluminum = element = Orange

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 11:36 AM

add copper, brass, titanium, platinum, gold silver to the mix and we'd have a fruit salad...

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#5

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 11:34 AM

We can't do your homework here, you need to be more specific. Basically the physical metallurgical properties.

What type of Aluminum?

What type of Steel?

6061 T6 aluminum machinability is different from a 5051 Aluminum.

Some with the different types of steel, 1030 as compared to 1045.

You can find the information from googling it.

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/23/2025 6:16 AM

Tank you: That´s about what I want to find out... Since you are in the metals business, I can advance a little bit more ( you are some kind of Profeth anyway...).

I want to find the metals required to hold a moving load of variable speed of no more than 4 tons in the air ... (cant bend vertically)

Cheers!

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/23/2025 11:51 AM

I can’t decipher what you just said…

But machinery’s handbook, and a book of strength of materials helps.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/25/2025 6:32 AM

Do you have sugestions?

ps:prophet because you seam to know me very well (and people like me)

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/23/2025 4:38 PM

Speed is not measured in tons.

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/25/2025 6:33 AM

Load is, and for my problem is a moving load...

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/25/2025 11:26 AM

Again, I believe we have a language problem here.

When your say ‘Load’ I don’t understand, are you talked about ‘Force’.

Against my better judgement, I’ll try to guess. The equation would be F=ma

where

F = Force

a = Acceleration

m = Mass

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/28/2025 6:16 AM

moving Load as in a train... (for all posters)

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/28/2025 7:51 AM

Formula still applies…

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#26
In reply to #22

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/30/2025 7:34 PM

Nick, in comment #13 you clarify your mission as

“I want to find the metals required to hold a moving load of variable speed of no more than 4 tons in the air ... (cant bend vertically)

In the air… like a train…

Seem a bit disjointed, these two things.

Maybe try a comment in Portuguese, some CR4 member might better grasp your project in your native language.

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#8

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/20/2025 9:50 PM

The type of metal to be used in a certain application is generally engineered from the start, including machinability, strength yield and tensile, environment to be used in, weight, elasticity etc...then possibly a map to producing such a material that would serve the purpose best....this might require machining at different stages of heat treatment...there might be several additives that facilitate the process including other metals and trace elements that are added for different purposes, to add strength or abrasion resistance for instance....so the question as asked really has no answer without exact ingredient list and process definition...there is even steel and aluminum alloys....Generally speaking steel is harder than aluminum though...

...."A typical steel alloy primarily consists of iron and carbon, while an aluminum alloy is mainly composed of aluminum with added elements like copper, magnesium, manganese, silicon, zinc, and sometimes small amounts of iron; the specific composition varies depending on the desired properties of the alloy. "...

Steel composition:

  • Iron (Fe): Base metal, constituting the majority of the alloy
  • Carbon (C): Key element that affects hardness and strength
  • Other potential alloying elements (depending on the steel type): Chromium (Cr), Nickel (Ni), Molybdenum (Mo), Vanadium (V), Manganese (Mn), Silicon (Si), Boron (B)

Aluminum alloy composition:

  • Aluminum (Al): Base metal
  • Common alloying elements:
    • Copper (Cu)
    • Magnesium (Mg)
    • Manganese (Mn)
    • Silicon (Si)
    • Zinc (Zn)
    • Other possible additions: Chromium (Cr), Titanium (Ti), Zirconium (Zr)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_named_alloys

..."Generally, steel alloys are significantly harder than aluminum alloys, meaning that even when comparing similar tempers, steel will typically resist indentation and wear better than aluminum due to its higher inherent hardness; however, the specific hardness of each material depends heavily on the alloy composition and heat treatment (temper) used.

Key points to remember:

  • Steel's inherent hardness: Most steel alloys, even in their base state, are harder than most aluminum alloys, making them more resistant to abrasion and wear.
  • Impact of alloying elements: The specific alloying elements added to both steel and aluminum significantly affect their hardness. For example, high carbon content in steel increases its hardness.
  • Heat treatment (temper): Both steel and aluminum can be heat treated to further enhance their hardness and strength, with different tempers impacting the final properties.

Comparison example:

  • Mild steel: A typical mild steel would be harder than most common aluminum alloys like 6061 in their annealed state.
  • High-strength aluminum alloys: While some high-strength aluminum alloys like 7075 T6 can achieve hardness comparable to certain mild steels, most high-grade steel alloys will still be considerably harder. "

..."Tempering is a process that balances the hardness, toughness, and internal stresses of metals. The tempering temperature and process depends on the alloy, the desired mechanical properties, and the degree of tempering required.

Steel

  • Tempering temperature: Steel is tempered at temperatures between 300–700 °C.
  • Low-temperature tempering: This process increases toughness while retaining hardness.
  • Medium-temperature tempering: This process balances hardness and toughness.
  • High-temperature tempering: This process increases toughness while sacrificing hardness.
  • Benefits: Tempered steel is more durable and reliable, especially carbon steel.

Aluminum

  • Temper designations: Temper designations describe the physical properties of an aluminum alloy.
  • Heat-treatable alloys: These alloys can be strengthened through heat treatment.
  • Non-heat-treatable alloys: These alloys cannot be strengthened significantly through heat treatment.
  • Strain hardening: This process strengthens a material through cold working.
  • Precipitation hardening: This process strengthens a material through heat treatment.
  • Aging: The properties of heat-treatable alloys change when stored at room temperature after solution heat treatment and quenching."
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#16
In reply to #8

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/24/2025 7:03 AM

Interesting, but irrelevant as we've no idea what the OP is trying to achieve. If it's a language problem he might be better getting a more fluent English speaker to help.

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#9

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/21/2025 7:01 AM

You have been around for quite a while so I doubt that this is homework. If you add to this posting a little specific information about what you are thinking about we can probably give an answer that is better for you.

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#19

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/25/2025 7:02 AM

Apart from the "fun" trying to decipher his "english" and second guessing what exactly he is saying, I guess from his comments that he is referring to a crane or hoist of some kind transporting a load of 4 tons at varying speeds.
Whether he is referring to the metals being used in the crane itself or the lifting gear is the unknown factor here... a typical crane mounted on tracks above groung is normally constructured out of steel. There is no need to worry about weight and steel would be the obvious choice.
Another point which is not covered is the temperature where this "metal" construction will be used, is this 4 ton load in a Furnace area (ie: extremely hot environment) or is the material / load cold ?
Steel is the obvious choice not only because of the strength factor but also the cost.
Steel around US $ 800 /ton, Aluminium around US $ 2700 /ton

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/25/2025 11:33 AM

Fun, well, here’s a ‘fun ‘ tidbit to your cost.

‘ Aluminum is made from bauxite, a clay mineral that contains aluminum hydroxide minerals.Bauxite is mined from the Earth's surface and processed to extract the aluminum. ‘

sorry, that was a copy/paste I got from AI. Even though I knew that, from my college courses in physical metallurgy.

AI will make us all idiots…it’s too late for me… save yourself.

ps, Bauxite is one of the most abundant lateral in earth, that I recall from my college courses. So since it’s from memory, I not going to guarantee it.

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#24

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/28/2025 8:14 AM

This Thread is a bit like a Whodunit Script where we are fed titbits of info as we follow the clues!!

Aha now we finally get some useful ? information... post 22 from the original theme poster... it's like a train, so it would appear to me to relate to some kind of Bogie used to transport a load weighing about 4 tons at varying speeds.
So is this a "Bogie" being used within a factory to move the 4 ton object from one workplace to another ?
There is still a lot of info missing from "Electronik" :
How big is the "bogie"
How big is the 4 ton Load (object)
Is it on a paved road or railway lines ?
Where is it moving from and to ?

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/28/2025 8:24 AM

The mystery isn’t over yet,… expect more twists…

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

02/03/2025 5:49 AM

for now you have to use imagination, but is a past project that I revived, and just now ask for opinion of thirds . Keep this questioning in mind, it just might be usefull for all of you, for now I have some issues to solve first, but I expect advance.

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#27
In reply to #24

Re: Steel versus Aluminium

01/31/2025 9:38 AM

you got it... the aim is a veicule... How big it is , is just still an idea.

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