Previous in Forum: Wanted: Recommendation on 28-30" LCD monitor   Next in Forum: MBR(Membrane Bio Reactor)
Close
Close
Close
Page 2 of 2: « First < Prev 1 2 Last »
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 50

Particle Speed Limit...

12/26/2007 2:07 AM

I found this question and answer at the FERMILABS web site. I find the answer slightly lacking. Can anyone provide the math/details?

Question:
Do you think it is possible that the velocity of an object in space determines the force of the vacuum it travels through?
- Donald E. Sterling

Answer:
Dear Mr. Sterling,

The faster a particle travels through vacuum, the more likely it is that the particle will interact with virtual particles contained in the vacuum. (At a quantum level, a vacuum is far from being empty.) Based on this quantum phenomena, scientists have predicted a maximum energy with which particles can travel long distances through vacuum (or the "empty space" in the universe). If the kinetic energy ("speed") of a particle exceeds this limit, the particle will eventually get involved in a collision with a virtual particle in the vacuum, creating new particles, each real and with lower kinetic energy.

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia.
Posts: 1642
Good Answers: 81
#95
In reply to #94
Find in discussion

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/15/2008 6:40 AM

Hi Jorrie

Thank you for that insight, I will have just have to plod along... yes bizarre, different modes mabe, sorry.

Regards JD.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#96
In reply to #94
Find in discussion

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/15/2008 8:55 AM

"It is more like repulsion between space and space..."

Just curious, is there any implication of the quantization of space? There's another (inactive, I guess) thread re how small a particle can be. Is there a "how small a space can be" to go with that?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Retired South Africa - Member - The Rainbow-nation Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Relativity & Cosmology Popular Science - Cosmology - The Big Picture!

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 3804
Good Answers: 69
#97
In reply to #96

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/15/2008 9:50 AM

"Just curious, is there any implication of the quantization of space? "

Yep, the Planck length (~10-35 m, or ~10-43 light-seconds). This is the distance light can move in one unit of Planck time.

Jorrie

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge." -- Kahlil Gibran
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#99
In reply to #97

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/15/2008 4:07 PM

So there's an apparent limit beneath which no distance can be shorter, no time can be of less duration. Requires some rumination, doesn't it?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 50
#103
In reply to #99

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/17/2008 3:00 AM

This minimum space is also known as "my apartment!"

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 33.49N, 84.19W
Posts: 1475
Good Answers: 3
#98
In reply to #96

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/15/2008 10:15 AM

Right here.

__________________
All worthwhile programmers know that constants always vary.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 50
#101
In reply to #91
Find in discussion

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/17/2008 2:19 AM

Hi, jdretired,

I've read the Einstein quote several times now, and the more I do, it seems to me that he wasn't making an argument for bringing back the æther. Remember that in Einstein's General Theory of Relativity he was tackling the concept of gravity. Also, remember that the æther was supposed to fill empty space. I think what Einstein was pondering is that "empty space" can be thought of as a sort of æther in itself, meaning that changes in the geometry of space is what makes up gravity. So, he wasn't recanting on the existence of the æther, but, rather, reflecting on the æther-like properties of empty space when influenced by mass.

As far as anti-matter goes, I, too, read the article about anti-matter around neutron stars and black holes. This was one of those articles that was pointing out something that has been known for a long time. Neutron stars and, especially, black holes are both known as prolific sources of Hawking radiation. This is where one of those virtual particle pairs comes into existence. However, before the particle and its anti-matter mate can pull back together and disappear, the particle closest to the black hole gets pulled away from its opposite, leaving it to become a single, new particle in the Universe. If the particle pulled into the black hole is the matter particle, then it's the anti-matter opposite particle that gets set free in the Universe.

As far as what anti-matter is, there is one theory that states that an anti-matter particle, say, an anti-proton, is really a proton that is going backward in time. So all anti-matter is just matter moving in the opposite direction in time! Don't know if this theory is still embraced by physicists or not, though.

One last thing, neutrons always decay into a proton (+), an electron (-), and an anti-neutrino (neutral). The anti-neutrino carries off the extra spin that otherwise would be mysteriously hard to account for. Furthermore, I don't think that the neutrons making up a neutron star are going anywhere in the near future. I think they're pretty much stuck in the star. So I don't think that the neutrons within a neutron star are changing into anti-matter directly.

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Retired South Africa - Member - The Rainbow-nation Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Relativity & Cosmology Popular Science - Cosmology - The Big Picture!

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 3804
Good Answers: 69
#104
In reply to #101

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/17/2008 4:16 AM

Hi vermin, you wrote: "Neutron stars and, especially, black holes are both known as prolific sources of Hawking radiation. This is where one of those virtual particle pairs comes into existence."

I have to disagree with you here. Hawking radiation is not a proven concept and has never been observed and AFAIK, neutron stars cannot produce Hawking radiation - they do not have event horizons.

Are you not referring to the normal x-ray radiation due to friction/pressure in the accretion disks and/or particles being flung out in the polar jets? The latter can cause collisions that creates particle-antiparticle pairs - no virtual particles required...

Jorrie

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge." -- Kahlil Gibran
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 50
#105
In reply to #104

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/17/2008 4:40 AM

Hi, Jorrie!

Hawking radiation is an unproven concept, but I think its proof may be just around the corner (at least I'm betting). Also, you don't absolutely need an event horizon to create Hawking radiation. All you need is a steep enough differential in the gravitational field. I am assuming (again a bet) that a proper neutron star could produce this differential if the virtual particles appear close enough to the neutron star.

The jets you're talking about I'm sure would create anti-matter. However, the article that we're referring to said that the anti-matter was created in the accretion disk. A bit of Sci-Fi? Possibly.

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia.
Posts: 1642
Good Answers: 81
#106

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/17/2008 6:43 PM

Hi vermin

I agree, I think that Einstein was referring to an conceptual aid in ones thinking. One such aid was to think of electricity as behaving the same as water. The water in a tower would be considered to have potential energy, voltage, and the flow current. I was thinking about my remark tunnelling, like water passing through a pipe. But I realise there is another twist to it, do electrons travel in a conductor like water or do they behave like photons, when a electron enters the shell of an adjoining atom does it flow to the next atom or does the incoming electron cause a local electron to be ejected, like from a pitcher to catcher? Is there any consensus on this?

Regards JD.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 33.49N, 84.19W
Posts: 1475
Good Answers: 3
#107
In reply to #106

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/17/2008 6:53 PM

Hi jd,

You asked "when a electron enters the shell of an adjoining atom does it flow to the next atom or does the incoming electron cause a local electron to be ejected, like from a pitcher to catcher?"

Just 2 cents worth from Wiki on how electrons move about (or along):

"In solid conductive metal, a large population of electrons are mobile or free electrons. These electrons are bound to the metal lattice but not to any individual atom. Even without an external electric field applied, these electrons move about randomly due to thermal energy but on average, there is zero net current within the metal. Given an imaginary plane through which the wire passes, the number of electrons moving from one side to the other in any period of time is exactly equal to the number passing in the opposite direction.

When a metal wire is connected across the two terminals of a DC voltage source such as a battery, the source places an electric field across the conductor. The moment contact is made, the free electrons of the conductor are forced to drift toward the positive terminal under the influence of this field."

-John

__________________
All worthwhile programmers know that constants always vary.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia.
Posts: 1642
Good Answers: 81
#108
In reply to #107

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/17/2008 7:09 PM

Hi John

I must not be so mean with my money? and not be so lazy. I fell for oldest one in the book, Did you check. Getting too old.

Regards JD.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 50
#111
In reply to #108

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/18/2008 12:39 AM

jdretired,

Johnjohn's answer is a good one!

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#112
In reply to #107

Re: Particle Speed Limit...

01/18/2008 12:51 AM

Hi john

Yes your answer was appreciated, Just some remarks about myself. Have always appreciated your input.

Regards JD.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply Page 2 of 2: « First < Prev 1 2 Last »

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); EnviroMan (16); glrusl (2); jdretired (26); Johnjohn (10); Jorrie (9); nick name (2); ronald (2); StandardsGuy (10); Tad (2); vermin (33)

Previous in Forum: Wanted: Recommendation on 28-30" LCD monitor   Next in Forum: MBR(Membrane Bio Reactor)

Advertisement